AnimeSuki Forums

Vexx · 2013-04-20, 10:03

The thread title seems "extreme" when there are in fact a number of games "for women" (or that are gender-neutral). The Elder Scroll game series comes to mind. I can think of 4 or 5 female friends without blinking who play the heck out of Oblivion, Skyrim. The first Dragon Age also qualifies.

Several MMOs seem fairly gender-neutral, especially in terms of the numbers of women who play them (EQ attracted large numbers of women, WoW ... join an MMO before the "kids get out of school" and there's a fairly large number of older women playing)
I'd even call the latest Tomb Raider a reboot in terms of being balanced from Lara's character design to the story line.

Yes, the larger majority of games just seem to assume a male is playing but there's been a substantial sea change since I started playing video/computer games in the late 1980s.

saravis · 2013-04-20, 11:16

One thing I will say that is lacking are older women PCs. Most female PCs are in their teens or twenties. You have very few that are in their thirties (Femshep and Mara Jade are a couple that come to mind) and I can't think of any that are in their forties.

The question is, is there a market for older female PCs? Men tend to look up to the older male that can hold up his own as well as, if not better than, the younger generations; the veteran character. Do women feel the same way? Do women desire to be like the older veteran character; a woman, who is in her forties or fifties, who is physically fit, but has the appearance and problems of her age? From my experience, I find that doubtful.

synaesthetic · 2013-04-20, 15:45

Well, Old Snake was pretty well-loved, so I don't see why a badass older lady couldn't star in her own game.

Flying Dagger · 2013-04-20, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Well, Old Snake was pretty well-loved, so I don't see why a badass older lady couldn't star in her own game.

I will be honest it is hard to imagine some old muscular grandma gunning things down left and right.

I guess I can see an old lady beating kids up with her bloom, but that's about it -_-.

synaesthetic · 2013-04-20, 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

I will be honest it is hard to imagine some old muscular grandma gunning things down left and right.

I guess I can see an old lady beating kids up with her bloom, but that's about it -_-.

You can be older and not be a granny, and still be a badass. A woman in her 40s or 50s could play in all sorts of genres without being unrealistic.

Kyero Fox · 2013-04-20, 19:22

-cough- THE BOSS -cough-

Yes, I am quite a fanboy of hers.

Chaos2Frozen · 2013-04-20, 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

Yes, I am quite a fanboy of hers.

No kidding? But you were so subtle about it...

saravis · 2013-04-20, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

-cough- THE BOSS -cough-

Yes, I am quite a fanboy of hers.

Except she's not a PC. However, do you think there is enough of a market of people who want to play as characters like her? Let me rephrase that question, if Kojima put up a poll asking gamers if they would rather play as Snake or as Boss, who would win?

Kyero Fox · 2013-04-20, 21:52

The Boss, not even a damn contest.... She'd win by a landslide.

saravis · 2013-04-20, 22:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

The Boss, not even a damn contest.... She'd win by a landslide.

So that's one vote for the boss

Kyero Fox · 2013-04-21, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by saravis

So that's one vote for the boss

Already did a poll a while back, The Boss won by a land slide.

Dirty_Harry · 2013-04-21, 02:45

Beyond Good And Evil is a good example of a game who may appeal the female gamers.

kyp275 · 2013-04-21, 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexx

The thread title seems "extreme" when there are in fact a number of games "for women" (or that are gender-neutral). The Elder Scroll game series comes to mind. I can think of 4 or 5 female friends without blinking who play the heck out of Oblivion, Skyrim. The first Dragon Age also qualifies.

Several MMOs seem fairly gender-neutral, especially in terms of the numbers of women who play them (EQ attracted large numbers of women, WoW ... join an MMO before the "kids get out of school" and there's a fairly large number of older women playing)
I'd even call the latest Tomb Raider a reboot in terms of being balanced from Lara's character design to the story line.

Yes, the larger majority of games just seem to assume a male is playing but there's been a substantial sea change since I started playing video/computer games in the late 1980s.

Agreed. Tbh, after reading through some of the posts in this thread, it seems to be that the some people have some rather... stringent qualification as to what is acceptable for female characters.

Also, whomever linked that damsel in distress vid, thanks a lot. That's 23 minutes of my life I'll never be able to get back

Chaos2Frozen · 2013-04-21, 06:41

Wow, you actually watched all of it

?

Benoit · 2013-04-21, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by momobunny

I love these characters (Growing up for me, my idols were characters like Princess Peach and Cream the Rabbit while other kids looked up to characters like Mario or Sonic.) and would love to see them more developed and have more spotlight and a chance to shine... but they're always pushed into the roles of damsel in distress, exposition fairy, minor villain... basically an NPC.

Cream the Rabbit? Seriously? I think the hate is justified because she's an annoying character who serves no purpose in the series other than being there. She was no NPC, though. She was playable in Sonic Heroes and Sonic Advance 2. Amy Rose got plenty of opportunities to shine, too, by the way.

Key Board · 2013-04-24, 00:51

I'll just leave this here

http://kotaku.com/the-real-problem-w...o-ga-478120280

this reminds me of a conversation with someone I had regarding Gurren Lagann

he didn't want to watch it, especially with other people because it was "embarrassing" and "over the top childish"

his loss, I say

Kyero Fox · 2013-04-24, 01:42

Over the top childish? your friend needs to grow the hell up.

Yea I doubt he's your friend buddy.

synaesthetic · 2013-04-24, 04:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board

I'll just leave this here

http://kotaku.com/the-real-problem-w...o-ga-478120280

this reminds me of a conversation with someone I had regarding Gurren Lagann

he didn't want to watch it, especially with other people because it was "embarrassing" and "over the top childish"

his loss, I say

Consider why he thought that. Consider the reputation anime has built for itself... subservient moeblobs, tentacle rape and general all-around male domination of female objects.

Yes, it's not all like that. Yes, some of anime and manga's bad rep comes from cultural differences between the West and Japan. Yes, there is a mild stigma against liking "cartoons" when you aren't a kid anymore.

But enough of it exists to give the medium a bad reputation, especially among women. The same goes for video games, but gaming isn't nearly as bad as anime. I freely admit to people that I'm a gamer, but I do not volunteer that I enjoy anime and manga. I know damn well that most people will assume the worst.

Short version: Kotaku guy has a point.

cronnoponno · 2013-04-24, 04:31

I highly agree with the Article... but I still don't think games that DO target a specific gender or culture should be completely eradicated, there's nothing wrong with a game like Senran Kagura, I guess the issue is that games that DO take themselves a bit more seriously and aren't advertised as being eye-candy do serve that eyecandy.

I was just playing a game called Legacista and there is a mage character in the game who's breasts are so disgustingly large and her ingame dialogue sprites bounce when she changes sprites to convey different emotions....and it really just had little point to it other than just being there and as a consequence making me double take every time I play it and those scenes are there to make sure someone isn't watching.

Dead Island Paradise is(a bad game to me) a game that pretty much says ''This game is tits, just letting you know'', and anyone who buys it should clearly know exactly what they're getting theirselves into while they awkwardly look to the left buying it, I think games like this should be exempt from the perfectly justifiable desire to stop with all the annoying and pointless sex-appeal in other games.

But then again, there are some pretty skimpy outfits in other dead or alive games and silly bounce features even in the serious games and while it'd be annoying to see that crap in every game, I'm not sure whether I'd agree to support the idea of removing every trace of it.

If people can impose art and other things that were once alien to gaming, I think sexualization should have it's place in some gaming as well, and this isn't just saying that it should be male-exclusive, I don't claim to know what girls like but if there is a game that fits their personal fantasies and such then I support those types of games as well....

synaesthetic · 2013-04-24, 04:47

I'm okay with sexual objectification in video games as long as it's equally applied and fair.

Right now, it's not. Your female characters are sexually objectified while your male characters are designed around a male power fantasy. Both methods of objectification are serving the male interest ONLY.

You wanna make a sexy game? Sure. Put some sexy, big-breasted girls in, but put some delicious mancandy in there for the ladies. Why should the guys care? It's not like they're going to be looking at the male characters, anyway... unless there's something they aren't admitting, after all.

2013-04-20, 10:03	Link #201
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	The thread title seems "extreme" when there are in fact a number of games "for women" (or that are gender-neutral). The Elder Scroll game series comes to mind. I can think of 4 or 5 female friends without blinking who play the heck out of Oblivion, Skyrim. The first Dragon Age also qualifies. Several MMOs seem fairly gender-neutral, especially in terms of the numbers of women who play them (EQ attracted large numbers of women, WoW ... join an MMO before the "kids get out of school" and there's a fairly large number of older women playing) I'd even call the latest Tomb Raider a reboot in terms of being balanced from Lara's character design to the story line. Yes, the larger majority of games just seem to assume a male is playing but there's been a substantial sea change since I started playing video/computer games in the late 1980s. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2013-04-20, 11:16	Link #202
saravis Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	One thing I will say that is lacking are older women PCs. Most female PCs are in their teens or twenties. You have very few that are in their thirties (Femshep and Mara Jade are a couple that come to mind) and I can't think of any that are in their forties. The question is, is there a market for older female PCs? Men tend to look up to the older male that can hold up his own as well as, if not better than, the younger generations; the veteran character. Do women feel the same way? Do women desire to be like the older veteran character; a woman, who is in her forties or fifties, who is physically fit, but has the appearance and problems of her age? From my experience, I find that doubtful. __________________ So people understand that I do not take these discussions seriously, its all good fun.

2013-04-20, 15:45	Link #203
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 39	Well, Old Snake was pretty well-loved, so I don't see why a badass older lady couldn't star in her own game. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!

2013-04-20, 19:22	Link #206
Kyero Fox Tastes Cloudy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Snake Way Age: 35	-cough- THE BOSS -cough- <p>No iframe support, please <a href="http://youtu.be/QXyT4HVwkFw">watch on YouTube</a>.</p> Yes, I am quite a fanboy of hers. __________________

2013-04-20, 21:52	Link #209
Kyero Fox Tastes Cloudy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Snake Way Age: 35	The Boss, not even a damn contest.... She'd win by a landslide. __________________

2013-04-21, 02:45	Link #212
Dirty_Harry Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Beyond Good And Evil is a good example of a game who may appeal the female gamers.

2013-04-21, 06:41	Link #214
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	Wow, you actually watched all of it ? __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2013-04-24, 00:51	Link #216
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	I'll just leave this here http://kotaku.com/the-real-problem-w...o-ga-478120280 this reminds me of a conversation with someone I had regarding Gurren Lagann he didn't want to watch it, especially with other people because it was "embarrassing" and "over the top childish" his loss, I say __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

2013-04-24, 01:42	Link #217
Kyero Fox Tastes Cloudy Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Snake Way Age: 35	Over the top childish? your friend needs to grow the hell up. Yea I doubt he's your friend buddy. __________________

2013-04-24, 04:31	Link #219
cronnoponno Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011	I highly agree with the Article... but I still don't think games that DO target a specific gender or culture should be completely eradicated, there's nothing wrong with a game like Senran Kagura, I guess the issue is that games that DO take themselves a bit more seriously and aren't advertised as being eye-candy do serve that eyecandy. I was just playing a game called Legacista and there is a mage character in the game who's breasts are so disgustingly large and her ingame dialogue sprites bounce when she changes sprites to convey different emotions....and it really just had little point to it other than just being there and as a consequence making me double take every time I play it and those scenes are there to make sure someone isn't watching. Dead Island Paradise is(a bad game to me) a game that pretty much says ''This game is tits, just letting you know'', and anyone who buys it should clearly know exactly what they're getting theirselves into while they awkwardly look to the left buying it, I think games like this should be exempt from the perfectly justifiable desire to stop with all the annoying and pointless sex-appeal in other games. But then again, there are some pretty skimpy outfits in other dead or alive games and silly bounce features even in the serious games and while it'd be annoying to see that crap in every game, I'm not sure whether I'd agree to support the idea of removing every trace of it. If people can impose art and other things that were once alien to gaming, I think sexualization should have it's place in some gaming as well, and this isn't just saying that it should be male-exclusive, I don't claim to know what girls like but if there is a game that fits their personal fantasies and such then I support those types of games as well....

2013-04-24, 04:47	Link #220
synaesthetic blinded by blood Author Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Oakland, CA Age: 39	I'm okay with sexual objectification in video games as long as it's equally applied and fair. Right now, it's not. Your female characters are sexually objectified while your male characters are designed around a male power fantasy. Both methods of objectification are serving the male interest ONLY. You wanna make a sexy game? Sure. Put some sexy, big-breasted girls in, but put some delicious mancandy in there for the ladies. Why should the guys care? It's not like they're going to be looking at the male characters, anyway... unless there's something they aren't admitting, after all. __________________ Indie science fiction author and all-around weirdo: Check out my original fiction here! Read an excerpt from my sci-fi novel Binary System!