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Old 2019-07-29, 15:49   Link #401
wingdarkness
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Diavolo suffers the worst fate out of any Jojo antagonists. Sentenced to die over and over again in different ways for all eternity. Kars being stranded in space is cute in comparison.
Diavolo and Toguro brother who Kurama owned in YuYu hakusho both got this fate. I honestly don't even think Diavolo deserves this, at least not as much as Kira...

Diavolo as $hitty as he was he was still playing the mob boss game (kill or be killed)...Kira vaporizing innocents from existence for a docile everyday life deserved this even more than being ripped apart for ghost parts...

As for the finale, overall pretty good, although it did end three weeks ago lol...This for 3 weeks of waiting doesn't compute but still enjoyable...

I enjoyed the hell outta part 5 but at the end of the day it's nowhere close to as good as part 4...

I guess I get why this is Japan's favorite version (because its sooo not japanese at all and Italian fashion at the time), but if people just deadass think this is better than part 4 I gotta question ya like Abbaccio in uniform.

Part 5 was a supped up Part 3 with a worse villain, but the character interactions, awesome collection of antagonist stand users (Mostly Risotto's gang), and more lore than most other parts (stuff with arrows) makes it well worth it!
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Old 2019-07-29, 16:15   Link #402
Mad Pierrot
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I don't know how to handle the comparisons between Part 3 and 5. I mean, Part 3 felt like a typical video game where almost every episode Jotaro and somebody encountered a Stand user like nothing as if they were waiting for the next guy to show up while Dio just waited in the same place for 47 episodes like nothing. Avdol was somehow taken out of the plot and then brought back for no reason why Kakyoin got more history about him when he was about to die.

In contrast, while Part 5 focused a lot on flashbacks it helped to make us understand the reasons why some of the main characters didn't get along that well with Giorno and Abbachio going down took a big impact. Then again, I'm not saying Part 5 is that better than Part 3. I mean they kept using a turtle as transport while Dioppo and Diavolo's chemistry was not that well explored.
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Old 2019-07-29, 16:46   Link #403
wingdarkness
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Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot View Post
I don't know how to handle the comparisons between Part 3 and 5. I mean, Part 3 felt like a typical video game where almost every episode Jotaro and somebody encountered a Stand user like nothing as if they were waiting for the next guy to show up while Dio just waited in the same place for 47 episodes like nothing. Avdol was somehow taken out of the plot and then brought back for no reason why Kakyoin got more history about him when he was about to die.

In contrast, while Part 5 focused a lot on flashbacks it helped to make us understand the reasons why some of the main characters didn't get along that well with Giorno and Abbachio going down took a big impact. Then again, I'm not saying Part 5 is that better than Part 3. I mean they kept using a turtle as transport while Dioppo and Diavolo's chemistry was not that well explored.
I do think nostalgia has a lot to do with it...I know this was the first part to get traction in the states. As a kid I saw it on my stepdad's old $hitty VHS and even then was captivated by Dio "The World" stuff. Until my mid-20s I had no clue Jojo was anything but part 3 ... Then i went back watched/read most of it...

Part 3 is super-iconic so I think its a good thing to be compared, but I'm talking mostly in design...

"Group of friends, cohorts, travel far distances to find main baddie as his Stand user posse gets in their way..." Its a more straight-forward team vs team setup...All the great backstory and motivations for characters (which for some reason Giorno doesn't get enough of in the finale episode) is why i say its a "supped-up" version...

But 5 also doesn't come without its problems...morso than any other part (except for 8 which i haven't read yet) it seems like Araki gave up on various plot threads or certain setups... 5 is riddled with WTF which i think you judge more harshly since part 3 was to be enjoyed as a video game setup...
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Old 2019-07-29, 19:22   Link #404
Frontier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
One of Jojo's bigger themes was Nurture vs Nature. Will someone choose to do Evil because the circumstance made him do it, or will he do it because he was born evil. Giorno ultimately chose to do right, well as a mafia mobster, because of the kindness shown by that unknown gangster. Had it not happen, he may have chosen to use his powers for evil. He overcame his Inner Dio and chose to be more like Jonathan.
One could say that the Joestar part of Giorno was once again able to defeat Dio .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I do think Araki could have done more with Giorno being Dio's son. After the first few episodes, it became completely irrelevant. Polfnareff never even found out about it.
The only real relevance it seemed to have past the first few episodes was Giorno's Stand Cry.
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Originally Posted by Mad Pierrot View Post
Objection! As a result of now being an animal, Polnareff should be renamed "Turtlneff"
I can dig it .
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Old 2019-07-30, 09:06   Link #405
Vegard Aune
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Originally Posted by wingdarkness View Post
But 5 also doesn't come without its problems...morso than any other part (except for 8 which i haven't read yet) it seems like Araki gave up on various plot threads or certain setups... 5 is riddled with WTF which i think you judge more harshly since part 3 was to be enjoyed as a video game setup...
It really is weird that Giorno's damage deflection powers got dropped as soon as they were introduced. I mean, Gold Experience Requiem's utter negation of attacks kind of feels like an evolution of the power, but it just... would have felt more coherent if it had been a power he'd made use of throughout the series instead of literally only using it in his first fight and then forgetting about it until he gets a new version of it at the end.

Also Fugo... though I hear that was more due to Araki thinking his original plan of having him turn treacherous being ultimately too depressing in a story that was already getting really dark...

And of course, Diavolo's antichrist-like backstory which never got any elaboration or explanation whatsoever...
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Old 2019-07-30, 12:04   Link #406
wingdarkness
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Originally Posted by Vegard Aune View Post
It really is weird that Giorno's damage deflection powers got dropped as soon as they were introduced. I mean, Gold Experience Requiem's utter negation of attacks kind of feels like an evolution of the power, but it just... would have felt more coherent if it had been a power he'd made use of throughout the series instead of literally only using it in his first fight and then forgetting about it until he gets a new version of it at the end.

Also Fugo... though I hear that was more due to Araki thinking his original plan of having him turn treacherous being ultimately too depressing in a story that was already getting really dark...

And of course, Diavolo's antichrist-like backstory which never got any elaboration or explanation whatsoever...
One thing that truly has me cackling is the fact Diavolo's whole early setup is that he doesn't wear clothes. He just lies in his office with a burlap bag or wrap over his body I would love to know Araki's original intention with that because he clearly dropped it and nowhere else in the show from Diavolos flashbacks or anything points at why he would be naked wearing a sack like an invalid or something...

Again I don't mean to nitpick as I enjoyed so much of this show, but yeah the Diavolo baby stuff too... I have to go back and re-watch it but I remember not being satisfied at all with that. There was something about him having his mom or the other baby under the floor boards that confused me.

Nevertheless Giorno's power evolves so much in just a few days. Him punching humans are supposed to make their inner senses go berserk but because we gotta make him like Dio he just hurts people with mudamuda punches now. He can now sense life (lmao) by touching objects and like you said GER just breaks your stand and he doesn't even really know why as he states.

Compare that to all the pettiness yet skillfulness and wit that Josuke had to use to finally get upperhand on Kira in the end, its not as fulfilling despite being visually epic...There was none of that classic one-upsmenship wit you find in most final boss Jojo fights (Just one-sided Diavolo delusions of grandeur)...

Honestly when i truly think about it my fav Giorno fight is vs. Babyface...I enjoyed the wit, the terror, the WTFness and the dialogue more than Diavolo because he got pwn so easily...To me Risotto's gang fight early arcs were the most memorable and exciting.

I was also holding out hope for Fugo to return but when my boy Narancia got dealt with and they showed aerosmith's shadow over Fugo walking near restaurant i knew we wouldn't see him again. So Purple Haze was just too OP, huh?
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Old 2019-07-31, 12:12   Link #407
alex_drian
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Btw, if the arrow drop of the Stand, that means that GER reverted to GE?
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Old 2019-07-31, 12:17   Link #408
Kanon
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Originally Posted by alex_drian View Post
Btw, if the arrow drop of the Stand, that means that GER reverted to GE?
I don't think it was ever confirmed. Maybe the arrow reappeared because it didn't need to be hidden from Diavolo anymore. Or maybe it was because Giorno couldn't maintain GER for long and it reverted back to GE.
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Old 2019-07-31, 13:35   Link #409
Frontier
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I still feel like keeping the arrow around is going to come back and bite them, but with this Part over who knows if that'll ever come up again .
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Old 2019-07-31, 15:11   Link #410
wingdarkness
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Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
I still feel like keeping the arrow around is going to come back and bite them, but with this Part over who knows if that'll ever come up again .
Polpo had a stand with an arrow that STABBED STANDS and that didn't come up again IN THE SAME SERIES , so I don't think any of these loose ends will be back.
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Old 2019-08-01, 14:26   Link #411
mangamuscle
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Maybe it is because where I live for many years cartel bosses get killed or jailed quite often but the situation never improves, I can't see the ending of part 5 as "good guys win". Yeah, Diavolo was nefarious, but by the looks of it he was not very efficient as a leader of the criminal organization (seems he was not aware of Polpo creating stand users and never investigated him). Giorno is but a teenager that was pickpocketing tourists a few weeks ago and now he is a top mafia boss, I can't see a scenario where money and power do not go to his head. Even Mista didn't looked happy in his "coronation" scene.

So the only people besides Giorno that profited from this adventure was Trish but only if she kept her life, Giorno might get wary of any stand users not under his control IMO.
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Old 2019-08-01, 18:13   Link #412
Kanon
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Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
Maybe it is because where I live for many years cartel bosses get killed or jailed quite often but the situation never improves, I can't see the ending of part 5 as "good guys win". Yeah, Diavolo was nefarious, but by the looks of it he was not very efficient as a leader of the criminal organization (seems he was not aware of Polpo creating stand users and never investigated him). Giorno is but a teenager that was pickpocketing tourists a few weeks ago and now he is a top mafia boss, I can't see a scenario where money and power do not go to his head. Even Mista didn't looked happy in his "coronation" scene.

So the only people besides Giorno that profited from this adventure was Trish but only if she kept her life, Giorno might get wary of any stand users not under his control IMO.
Diavolo knew about Polpo. I don't know why you'd think otherwise. He's in fact the one who gave him the arrow in order to create stand users and strengthen his organization, remember Diavolo is the one who dug the arrows out.
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Old 2019-08-01, 18:39   Link #413
mangamuscle
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Diavolo knew about Polpo. I don't know why you'd think otherwise. He's in fact the one who gave him the arrow in order to create stand users and strengthen his organization, remember Diavolo is the one who dug the arrows out.
I do not remember there was a mention in any of the 39 episodes of Diavolo giving Polpo the arrow or any scene where Polpo received orders from him, we do not even know if Diavolo recruited Polpo (who might have had a Stand since childhood) or if he was already part of the organization when Diavolo took over. If Diavolo knew that the arrow could create stand users IMO it would have been more logical to keep it for himself (just like Giorno did). What we got to see is Polpo creating stand users at will without any kind of authorization and the only reason IMO to have that many pooled together under his command is to sooner or later try to take on Diavolo.
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Old 2019-08-02, 11:14   Link #414
Kanon
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Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
I do not remember there was a mention in any of the 39 episodes of Diavolo giving Polpo the arrow or any scene where Polpo received orders from him, we do not even know if Diavolo recruited Polpo (who might have had a Stand since childhood) or if he was already part of the organization when Diavolo took over. If Diavolo knew that the arrow could create stand users IMO it would have been more logical to keep it for himself (just like Giorno did). What we got to see is Polpo creating stand users at will without any kind of authorization and the only reason IMO to have that many pooled together under his command is to sooner or later try to take on Diavolo.
It wasn't shown, that's just the logical conclusion. There were never any hints that Polpo intended to betray Diavolo. Diavolo also never expressed any surprise that so many members were stand users. Diavolo is the guy who cut two of the members of Risotto's squad into little pieces just because they tried to investigate his identity. Not to mention what happened with Polnareff. Do you really think Polpo would have been able to fool him and his vast network?
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