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Old 2018-06-15, 10:17   Link #21
cyberdemon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grecefar View Post
I was crying like bonnie when I saw kuma, my god... ;A;

It seems that IM is the one who is going to restore the "balance" of the world and maybe the way is to get rid of luffy, teach, shirahoshi and use vivi in some way, maybe make her his queen?
My guess is that they are focusing on obtaining the technology of Pluton, Poseidon, and Uranus to crush Dragon's rebellion. Each of those pictures is someone who is, or is potentially connected to, one of the 3. Luffy and Blackbeard and completely unruly and would never help them. Shirahoshi is now under complete guard after Charloss's ill attempted enslavement so it would be too difficult to get close to her. Or perhaps mjosgard got close to her on their orders for this very reason. Vivi is less guarded and they already view her family as traitors so they are planning to make use of Alabasta's Poneglyphs through her.
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Old 2018-06-15, 12:21   Link #22
Kanon
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I'm surprised Dragon wasn't among the torn pictures/wanted posters on the floor. He's the most wanted man in the world, you'd think he would be the biggest threat to the world's balance. I'm in fact pretty sure he'll be the one chosen by Im regardless. Luffy already has two Yonkou on his ass, no need to add any more people. And BlackBeard is lucky as shit and still the most likely candidate for final boss (despite all those plotlines being introduced over the years, the final fight will definitely be over who gets to become Pirate King).

It would suck if Dragon died before Luffy gets to meet him though. Yep, I'm pretty sure the person chosen will die, or Im won't look like much of a threat at all.
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Old 2018-06-15, 12:29   Link #23
cyberdemon
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Originally Posted by khoa1708 View Post
empty throne my ass...

there's a theory that the mysterious figure is luffy's mom? haha
I'm for that. It would be interesting. Especially if she is like the other Celestial Dragons. Like she left Mariejois to find the weapons. She used Dragon and then betrayed him starting his rebellion. She got pregnant but dumped Luffy on Garp rather than deal with a half breed CD/D son.
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Old 2018-06-15, 13:33   Link #24
marvelB
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I'm surprised Dragon wasn't among the torn pictures/wanted posters on the floor. He's the most wanted man in the world, you'd think he would be the biggest threat to the world's balance.
I think it's because Dragon keeps a lower profile in comparison to Luffy. I mean, for instance, his relation to Luffy and Garp was pretty much a unknown until the latter exposed it himself, remember? And heck, his secret base in Baltigo wasn't exposed until Blackbeard's invasion of the place, was it not? Meanwhile, Luffy and co. are always causing some huge splash on whatever island they visit. So while Dragon is undoubtedly also a threat to the world's balance, he at least has the advantage of drawing less attention to himself. Not like his son, who's now become infamous enough to be targeted by two of the world's most powerful pirates, heh.
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Old 2018-06-15, 15:25   Link #25
SOGESNAKE
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I can actually kinda get behind the idea of Im being Luffy’s mother... you’d have to wonder what kind of woman “The World’s Most Wanted Man” would concieve a child with... the most powerful figure in the WG would make sense... Oda did always say Luffy’s mother is very unattractive, so maybe he was refering to her personality?

Something along the lines of, “They were a couple and had a kid, but Dragon realized what kind of woman she was as soon as she got power”. It would even kinda explain Dragon leading the Revolutionary Army to take down the WG if he actually knew the one pulling the strings at the top and what they’re capable of.

But all theories.
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Old 2018-06-15, 15:29   Link #26
Theia_Loki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I'm surprised Dragon wasn't among the torn pictures/wanted posters on the floor. He's the most wanted man in the world, you'd think he would be the biggest threat to the world's balance. I'm in fact pretty sure he'll be the one chosen by Im regardless. Luffy already has two Yonkou on his ass, no need to add any more people. And BlackBeard is lucky as shit and still the most likely candidate for final boss (despite all those plotlines being introduced over the years, the final fight will definitely be over who gets to become Pirate King).

It would suck if Dragon died before Luffy gets to meet him though. Yep, I'm pretty sure the person chosen will die, or Im won't look like much of a threat at all.
I'm even more worried if it's Vivi that will be named as the one who will be snuffed out.
Im (or Ym, in one translation) was holding a picture of her as he was going up the stairs to the Empty Throne. That alone could not be a good thing, especially since she argued against Lucci in the last chapter when he defended Charloss... before Mjosgard -- or "PWNgard" -- 'whacked' him upside the head.
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Old 2018-06-15, 15:44   Link #27
The Small One
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Originally Posted by espec22 View Post
Finally, the series BIG BAD (partially)has beeen revealed and it only took 908 chapters. For a moment, I thought they were going to fight Gol D. Rogers in the big finale....althought.... he has an Straw Hat...............HOLY S*+T , HE IS GOLD D. ROGER........'s evil twin brother
Actually I thought he may be Gold Roger himself. The panel with the close up of his eyes, together with the talk here in the forum, that he may be immortal gave me this crazy idea: What if he is some kind of body snatcher (maybe DF), who steals other peoples bodies to live until they get old, just to switch bodies with a new one. And the question of the five elders is meant like „Whose body do you want next“.
Well, just a crazy thought.


Quote:
Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
Honestly, despite Im's reveal, I'm still pegging Blackbeard as the one who will ultimately become the final villain. At least, I feel he's more fitting since Oda's built him up as the anti-Luffy of sorts, plus there's quite a few mysteries behind him that are left unsolved (how he's able to use a second DF, his being part of the D lineage, his interest in history, etc.). Plus, he's got several hundred chapters on Im, who only first appeared two chapters ago, lol.
I don't see Blackbeard as a villain. He is more like the Sasuke to Luffy's Naruto. They both are basically living to the same goals, while doing everything in the complete opposite. Like two sides to the same coin. If they ever join forces, they probably will be completely unstoppable.

Quote:
While I also think Im being an immortal is likely, I just want to say I also believe the elders themselves are likely to be immortal, as well. It was even confirmed last chapter that the five of them are the highest rank of Celestial Dragon, so I wouldn't be surprised if they literally turned out to be the last surviving founders of the WG (making them over 800 years old).....
While they seem to be quite old, I wouldn't go so far to assume them to be over 800 years. However I think it's quite interessting, that from their looks and behaviour they seem to be completely different from all the other celestial dragons we've seen so far.
They have rather 'normal' looking clothes and seem like they were capable fighters when they were younger, in contrast to the other celestial dragons who look really spoiled.
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Old 2018-06-15, 15:49   Link #28
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
I'm surprised Dragon wasn't among the torn pictures/wanted posters on the floor. He's the most wanted man in the world, you'd think he would be the biggest threat to the world's balance. I'm in fact pretty sure he'll be the one chosen by Im regardless. Luffy already has two Yonkou on his ass, no need to add any more people. And BlackBeard is lucky as shit and still the most likely candidate for final boss (despite all those plotlines being introduced over the years, the final fight will definitely be over who gets to become Pirate King).

It would suck if Dragon died before Luffy gets to meet him though. Yep, I'm pretty sure the person chosen will die, or Im won't look like much of a threat at all.
Does Im actually have the power to deal with these threats? Because for the past 900+ chapters, Im has been hiding behind the WG and its military powers. But we've seen that these forces are still not enough to deal with the yonkou and Dragon, for instance. Even back during Roger's era, Roger gave himself in. No one/nothing managed to take him down. And although he learned the truth of the history, he didn't get a chance to expose the WG to the masses of the entire world. I think Im fears the possibility of someone from this generation succeeding where Roger didn't. And when that inevitably happens, Im will cease to exist, thereby breaking the cycle of corruption that's been going on for centuries.
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Old 2018-06-15, 16:53   Link #29
cyberdemon
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This is just a thought but what if Im doesn't live in Mariejois with the other Celestial Dragons and that is how they keep up the whole "no celestial dragon king" scenario? That the whole Reverie is just a set up to sneak Im in once every 4 years. Basically the meeting of kings is just a front for that and actually has very little power.

Here's another thought. Luffy is currently 19 years old. Under the potential assumption that Im could be his mother. Perhaps he was conceived at the Reverie from 20 years ago. Perhaps Dragon was a good Marine 20 years ago. And during the Reverie at that time was asked to escort that ruler of a country there. In his job of protecting her, they conceived Luffy and then he found out the truth of what she actually was and what it means for the rulers who take the "Reverie" seriously. As a result he goes rogue and leaves the Marines and starts the rebellion to weed out the corruption in the World Government.
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Old 2018-06-15, 16:55   Link #30
SeanQ
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Why the gorosei look like the want to murder the guy at the end lol
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Old 2018-06-15, 18:48   Link #31
Kanon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Does Im actually have the power to deal with these threats? Because for the past 900+ chapters, Im has been hiding behind the WG and its military powers. But we've seen that these forces are still not enough to deal with the yonkou and Dragon, for instance. Even back during Roger's era, Roger gave himself in. No one/nothing managed to take him down. And although he learned the truth of the history, he didn't get a chance to expose the WG to the masses of the entire world. I think Im fears the possibility of someone from this generation succeeding where Roger didn't. And when that inevitably happens, Im will cease to exist, thereby breaking the cycle of corruption that's been going on for centuries.
I think the Five Elders are this power. Major power houses who probably only act on Im's direct order, when the stability of the world is majorly threatened. It seems to me they're ready to head into battle. Why did they not act before? Because there were no need to. Everybody was kept in check, including the Yonkou. However, now, completely unpredictable people like Luffy and Blackbeard are gaining more and more power and influence. They may not be first on the hit list, but their time will come.

As for Roger, there are still lots of mysteries surrounding him. There could have been reasons he was allowed to reach Raftel and uncover the secret behind the Void Century.

Anyway, given the Five Elders' confidence they can get rid of anybody Im wishes to see gone from this world, and the fact Im is being introduced as the ultimate secret mastermind, it would make little sense if he didn't hold significant power.
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Old 2018-06-16, 01:32   Link #32
adriankhoo153
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The Im guy have an eye like mihawk.
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Old 2018-06-16, 07:59   Link #33
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So that's the ransom price to keep the Straw Hat's alive: become a slave
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Last edited by bhl88; 2018-06-16 at 18:07.
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Old 2018-06-16, 09:26   Link #34
Rainbowman
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Despite being one of the catalysts that ruined my dreams for this story, Kuma doesn’t deserve this kind of treatment from the most deplorable people ever.
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Old 2018-06-16, 15:30   Link #35
marvelB
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Huh, some interesting comments I just noticed:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
I don't see Blackbeard as a villain. He is more like the Sasuke to Luffy's Naruto. They both are basically living to the same goals, while doing everything in the complete opposite. Like two sides to the same coin. If they ever join forces, they probably will be completely unstoppable.
So basically, you see Teach as more of a rival, then. Technically, the supernovas fulfill that role, though (plus, a couple of them already HAVE joined forces with Luffy). However, Blackbeard's definitely more of a villain.... he's made it clear that his ambition is to rule the world and spread chaos, while Luffy's reason for becoming the PK is merely to gain freedom (remember, he even told Rayleigh as such). And sure, while Luffy's created more than his fair share of mayhem himself, at least it tends to be for a noble cause (taking down the bad guys, mainly). Teach's intentions are clearly more sinister..... we ARE talking about the guy who murdered two people for the sake of stealing their DF powers, after all. So in this sense, they truly are mirror opposites of each other, with Luffy as the hero, and Teach as the clear villain....

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Small One View Post
While they seem to be quite old, I wouldn't go so far to assume them to be over 800 years. However I think it's quite interessting, that from their looks and behaviour they seem to be completely different from all the other celestial dragons we've seen so far.
They have rather 'normal' looking clothes and seem like they were capable fighters when they were younger, in contrast to the other celestial dragons who look really spoiled.
I think the most telling hint that the elders are immortal is the fact that, in all the times we've seen them, their appearances have NEVER changed. Like even when they appeared in the Ohara flashback, you can tell they have the same appearance..... in a flashback that took place twenty years before Luffy's story began. Now compare that to all the other characters whose appearances changed with age (including the Straw-Hats themselves). Isn't it odd that the elders themselves remained stagnant in appearance? As if.... the elders themselves were frozen in time, somehow? And the fact that we DO know of powers that grant immortality (Law's ope ope, possibly Bonney's aging power) makes it very much credible that those five are not only Celestial Dragons, but are literally the last survivors among the original 20 WG founders......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
And BlackBeard is lucky as shit and still the most likely candidate for final boss (despite all those plotlines being introduced over the years, the final fight will definitely be over who gets to become Pirate King).
Personally, I think becoming Pirate King is only the prologue to the final battle. Whitebeard indicated as such during his dying speech, but.... once the secret of the One Piece is exposed, it's going to pretty much spark a world war, and I see no way Teach WOULDN'T take advantage of the ensuing chaos. If Wano is already being built up to be the war of the century with all the parties and stakes currently involved, I think it wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that Raftel will spark off the war of the millennium...,

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Originally Posted by ~Yami~ View Post
I really thought the rest of Supernova generation is already forgotten except Luffy and Law
So.... the whole alliance with Capone in the previous arc never happened, then?
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Old 2018-06-16, 15:54   Link #36
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I am truly surprised about Kuma. I really thought that he would have just been modified to just be some ultimate killing machine that Luffy or Zoro would probably have to take out maybe when Luffy finally went after the world government itself. He has an awesome devil fruit, i'm pretty sure he's done some nasty deeds for the CD's.
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Old 2018-06-16, 17:25   Link #37
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Now im worried about Alabasta.
Maybe Buster Call on it?
Calling Cobra a traitor.

Kuma, does this mean he is not a Warlord anymore?
Really, Donflamingo probably did not know about this, but kind of saw this coming.
Law made the right choice throwing away the Warlord title like a disposable asset.
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Old 2018-06-16, 19:15   Link #38
cyberdemon
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Originally Posted by rladls2121 View Post
Now im worried about Alabasta.
Maybe Buster Call on it?
Calling Cobra a traitor.

Kuma, does this mean he is not a Warlord anymore?
Really, Donflamingo probably did not know about this, but kind of saw this coming.
Law made the right choice throwing away the Warlord title like a disposable asset.
Sounds like they are planning to do away with the warlord title. Not surprising since it is just a revolving door at this point. Kuma himself though is now just a humanoid robot. They don't need the title to keep him in check.
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Old 2018-06-17, 01:44   Link #39
The Small One
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
I think the most telling hint that the elders are immortal is the fact that, in all the times we've seen them, their appearances have NEVER changed. Like even when they appeared in the Ohara flashback, you can tell they have the same appearance..... in a flashback that took place twenty years before Luffy's story began. Now compare that to all the other characters whose appearances changed with age (including the Straw-Hats themselves). Isn't it odd that the elders themselves remained stagnant in appearance? As if.... the elders themselves were frozen in time, somehow? And the fact that we DO know of powers that grant immortality (Law's ope ope, possibly Bonney's aging power) makes it very much credible that those five are not only Celestial Dragons, but are literally the last survivors among the original 20 WG founders......
Assuming you are right, and they are the immortal remnants of the original founders, doesn't this lead to much more questions?

The first question would be concerning the knowledge: There are basically two possibilities. Either trying to keep the fact a secret, or not.
If they were trying to keep it a secret, we would have to wonder how they do it. Surely somebody would notice that the five most important people of the world didn't get older. It's not like they stay in shadows like Ym. They interact with the marines, the Celestial Dragons and probaly with the kings coming to Reverie as well. That's not something you can hide for several hundred years.
So the other possibility would be much easier: It's not a secret, but common knowledge to everyone who interacts with them. However in this case, there is no reason for the author to hide the knowledge from us, the readers. I think it would have been mentioned already. Either in one of the notes, when the peoples are introduced, or indirectly by some character mentioning it.
Basically that is the main reason, I'm not convinced by the theory, even though it sounds rather interessting.

Now to some other questions, which would appear:
If they are from the WG founders, what happened to the others? It weren't just 20 persons, who founded the WG, but 20 kingdoms. So they were at least 20 royal families (19 if we leave out the Alabasta Kingdom), which likely consisted of at least a king, his queen and a crown prince. How come that only 5 of them are left alive, when they are supposed to be immortal?

Why do the Celestial Dragons accept this? The celestial dragons see themselves as gods. How can they accept, that five of them live as immortals and rule over them, without wanting the same power for themselves?
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Old 2018-06-17, 14:59   Link #40
Slayerx
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
I think the most telling hint that the elders are immortal is the fact that, in all the times we've seen them, their appearances have NEVER changed. Like even when they appeared in the Ohara flashback, you can tell they have the same appearance..... in a flashback that took place twenty years before Luffy's story began. Now compare that to all the other characters whose appearances changed with age (including the Straw-Hats themselves). Isn't it odd that the elders themselves remained stagnant in appearance? As if.... the elders themselves were frozen in time, somehow? And the fact that we DO know of powers that grant immortality (Law's ope ope, possibly Bonney's aging power) makes it very much credible that those five are not only Celestial Dragons, but are literally the last survivors among the original 20 WG founders......
DID we see the five elders during the Ohara incident? I remeber them having a speaking role, but looking back to the chapter it looks like the only appearance they had were in very heavy shadow which would make it unclear how much they have aged since then...

Its a nice theory, but i would doubt they are immortal simply because it would be impossible to cover up seeing as they have meetings with the kings and other important individuals. They would notice if the elders were never changing. Being immortal would make more sense of Ym, since few people even know of their existence. If you never meet with anyone then no one will notice you never change except for the few that ARE trusted with knowledge of your existence. The 5 elders are supposed to act as the face of the WG's leadership, so that no one knows about Ym.
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