Geneon stops all productions

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Hmmm, I might get my Karin volume 4 (street date 11/13/07) since they usually pop out early.... (just ordered 1-3, and pre-ordered 4).

Wait.... this is an ANN announcement? ... ... ... ... Tags it with label "SUSPECT" til otherwise verified. In other words all we really have is a large mound of uncertainty about what that means in regard to series currently in production.

There is also a announcement on the Rightstuf website. So it is no rumor.

[Kamui4356]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

This is the first time in 9 years of leeching that I feel pi$$ed that I may have contributed to this...Of all the anime DVD's I own you'll see the Geneon label more than 60%...If leeching is a component of Geneon getting the axe, I'm finally gonna have an epiphany T_T...Because they're simply the best...

If Geneon titles make up more than 60% of what you have on dvd, I don't see how you could blame yourself for not buying enough.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

If Geneon titles make up more than 60% of what you have on dvd, I don't see how you could blame yourself for not buying enough.

Well your jaw might drop in surprise to how many Geneon series I haven't bought too...And I have 3 series that were completely bought black-market style...So yeah I kinda suck if I'm partially to blame...My platform has always been based upon the lack of companies failing verses the overly-verbose arguments against the leeching community...Geneon seems to be the most quality name I've ever seen fold in my 9 years of using my defense...I guess I'm still curious to whether or not this was a factor...Maybe I'm just overreating...

[Supersonic]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Well your jaw might drop in surprise to how many Geneon series I haven't bought too...And I have 3 series that were completely bought black-market style...So yeah I kinda suck if I'm partially to blame...My platform has always been based upon the lack of companies failing verses the overly-verbose arguments against the leeching community...Geneon seems to be the most quality name I've ever seen fold in my 9 years of using my defense...I guess I'm still curious to whether or not this was a factor...Maybe I'm just overreating...

Anyone who says that fansubbing is not at least a contributing factor to Geneon's downfall is fooling themselves. People download the fansubs and then "forget" to buy the title when it's licensed. It happens all the time and I'm guilty of it as well, but frankly I just throw away the discs and put my burnt off fansubs in the pretty case when I do buy DVD's so it's kinda hard for a guy like me to be convinced to buy unless it's a series I feel especially urged to support (usually I buy the R2 DVD's when this is the case, however).

[hideFan]

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/survey/

The fate of Geneon could be in our hands! -hits a dramatic chord-

You guys should fill out the survey to keep thier spirits up, and our anime comming!

[Aoie_Emesai]

Originally Posted by Cyz

They might give the license to someone else.....maybe but that's not likely. Hmm, maybe Bandai might picked it up or ADV but not sure about that either. Well, there aren't any news that Geneon are dropping all the licensed animes as Nightwish said.


--> Whew! Good thing they weren't the one that licensed AIR and Kanon and also picked up the second season of Ah My Goddess Still, I'm still sad because I won't be able to complete Saiunkoku now.

ADV picks up everything, so mostly likely they'll do it too.

[serenade_beta]

Oh dear, this is horrible.

This is quite a blow...

*slumps on the wall*

[Dop]

Eek!

Perhaps this just means they'll be out-sourcing the distribution and marketing side of things, and I'd certainly hope that after some kind of transition period while they sort things out and find new business partners we'll see the return of Geneon-licenced series, such as the remaining volumes of When They Cry (I had been buying the DVDs, so I'd be a bit miffed if I had an uncompleted set. Best not delete the old fansubs yet, just in case!) or forthcoming series like Nanoha.

Hopefully... Fingers crossed.

[JKL]

A sad day for the R1 market.

[cyth]

Originally Posted by Supersonic

Anyone who says that fansubbing is not at least a contributing factor to Geneon's downfall is fooling themselves.

Fansubbing has always been a contributing factor to the industry, and it wasn't necessarily a negative one in most cases, but Geneon's "downfall" has more to do with Dentsu's (Geneon USA's parent company) unrealistic demands that were influenced by deinvestments done on the behalf of Mitsubishi and D-rights. Geneon were meeting their targets prior to the fiasco, according to their representatives who posted on AoD.
Yeah, sure, leechers could be purchasing more, but seriously, no company is fooling themselves anymore about fansubbing and its positive contributions. Obscure titles without fansubs do not receive enough exposure among 'hardcore' fans who are willing to purchase them. Geneon USA dealt with obscure newer titles more than any company. Fansubbing does its role, but after that everything lies on the hands of the distributors.
I believe Geneon USA was one company fansubbers liked the most. We gave their properties a fair loving, the consumers gave loving back to Geneon. The only downside to their titles were somewhat steep retail prices, but not many questioned the quality of their products. It was a great company with a consistently positive reputation among the fansubbing crowds. It will be missed.

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by Toua

I believe Geneon USA was one company fansubbers liked the most. We gave their properties a fair loving, the consumers gave loving back to Geneon. The only downside to their titles were somewhat steep retail prices, but not many questioned the quality of their products. It was a great company with a consistently positive reputation among the fansubbing crowds. It will be missed.

Indeed.
Of course, if I like a series enough, I'll buy it no matter who grabbed it up, but I was always happy to hear when Geneon got something I liked. Fansubbers, who already get good quality product for free, are not easily parted with their money. That the fansubbing community in general held them in such high esteem says quite a bit.
They will be sorely missed

[mdauben]

Originally Posted by Supersonic

Anyone who says that fansubbing is not at least a contributing factor to Geneon's downfall is fooling themselves.

Actually, there is little or no hard evidence that fansubbing or filesharing has any significant impact on the sales of entertainment media. There are a lot of other factors that can be proven to contribute to poor sales, but these are often forgotten in the infamatory "anti-pirating" rhetoric from media companies.

People download the fansubs and then "forget" to buy the title when it's licensed.

The problem with assertion is that most of those people don't "forget" to buy the DVDs, but rather that they would probably never have bought them at all. That is the factor that is ignored by the industry. Every downloaded title is not a lost sale, in most cases it is a sale that probably never would have been made, anyway.

It happens all the time.

I download a lot of anime, but I also follow up with purchases of any titles that I actually like and which actually get licenced in the US, and I always encorage others to do the same. Remember that in Japan, anime companies put their shows on TV just to expose people to them and generate DVD sales. In the market outside Japan, there is much less TV exposure of anime titles, and the only way people can be exposed to most new titles (without just blind buying of DVDs based on magazine reviews) is through fansubs. I would not have purchased half the anime DVDs I have, if I had not first viewed and fallen in love with the shows as fansubs.

So, the way to support Geneon and the industry is not through restricting fansubs, but through actually buying more DVDs.

[bayoab]

Originally Posted by Toua

Obscure titles without fansubs do not receive enough exposure among 'hardcore' fans who are willing to purchase them.

This is incorrect and bad logic.

I believe Geneon USA was one company fansubbers liked the most.

No. They did not "like" them. They knew fansubs help some titles, but it killed a number of titles for them too.

[Supersonic]

Originally Posted by Toua

Yeah, sure, leechers could be purchasing more, but seriously, no company is fooling themselves anymore about fansubbing and its positive contributions. Obscure titles without fansubs do not receive enough exposure among 'hardcore' fans who are willing to purchase them. Geneon USA dealt with obscure newer titles more than any company. Fansubbing does its role, but after that everything lies on the hands of the distributors.

Well, to me I think you're underestimating the "frugality" of the average leech. Sure, "hardcore" fans will always buy the DVD collector's edition boxsets that come with a free Haruhi blow-up doll, but that's not the average user. The average user will take the path of least resistance. If that's paying $20 for a DVD or spending 3 hours downloading a torrent, that's the path he'll take.

Very few leechers actually care about the intricate "moral code" that the fansubbing community has.

Originally Posted by bayoab

No. They did not "like" them. They knew fansubs help some titles, but it killed a number of titles for them too.

Pretty much this. The "exposure" benefit that we're talking about only really balances out the "cheap bastard" detriment for very obscure titles.

[Xellos-_^]

i thinl someone else earlier reported but Genon's problem isn't making making enough sales to be profitable but the parent company wanting more sales then the market would give them. Genon was making money but the parent company wants more money.

The only major Genon series i haven't bought yet is Black lagoon and Shana. For Shana i wam waiting for the box set. I hate to collected singles and them have them release a sp ed with box. For black Lagoon I was just waiting till the end year when i have am a bit clearer on expenses.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by mdauben

The problem with assertion is that most of those people don't "forget" to buy the DVDs, but rather that they would probably never have bought them at all. That is the factor that is ignored by the industry. Every downloaded title is not a lost sale, in most cases it is a sale that probably never would have been made, anyway.

I actually think its a combination of the two - its either:

1) cheapskates who dont even bother buying the DVD of a series they like to show their support.

2) boring series being licensed - there as so many more great series that show have but isnt picked up due to their "unselling" nature...

[Vexx]

Sigh... topic derailed ---

offtopic:
I'd just like to know how the hell I'm supposed to make an informed choice on what DVDs to buy without having seen the broadcast series.
Answer: if I can't see the broadcast series... I'll return to my pre-fansub days of not buying much of anything (i.e. out of the market).

If they want my money without fansubs, they *need* to solve that issue, like by broadcasting subbed series to the R1 region. And no, Adult Swim, CN, don't cut it --- they don't show the gamut of what is being broadcast nor do they usually show the genres I'm interested in. This isn't taking a chance on a $20 movie I've not seen... This is me looking at plunking several hundred dollars down on a DVD series -- so I think getting the same preview that japanese consumers get is important.

On topic: so I assume from the banter that there's been no follow up announcement or any new information about the series in-progress that Geneon was producing. Ceasing production on a series in the middle is exceptionally poor form if that is what is happening (glares at ADV a bit), especially if the situation is that Geneon was profitable but not quite meeting the profit *expectations* of the parent company.

[monir]

Okay folks, this isn't the topic to discuss why fansub screws the industry. Let's get on topic please because I don't want to delete posts right and left.

To be on topic myself, I was really looking forward to the second season of Black Lagoon so this is kind of a bummer.

[rooboy]

Originally Posted by Vexx

On topic: so I assume from the banter that there's been no follow up announcement or any new information about the series in-progress that Geneon was producing. Ceasing production on a series in the middle is exceptionally poor form if that is what is happening (glares at ADV a bit), especially if the situation is that Geneon was profitable but not quite meeting the profit *expectations* of the parent company.

No, there hasn't been. Apparently Animenation asked and was told that Geneon is ceasing production in November, but would not confirm rumors about any existing or soon to come series being worked on.

[Vexx]

bleh... I ordered all the current "Karin" DVDs today and pre-ordered the 4th one due out right at the "we fall on our sword" date Geneon mentioned.
(Somehow I'd missed Karin getting licensed amongst all the other series I purchased this year...)

Hopefully, SOMEONE will finish Karin and any other series in progress at least.
I'll hope that they're still negotiating with someone to finish up the works-in-progress.

Dentsu and its parents aren't on my "happy face" list at the moment when I look at all the Geneon titles on my shelf purchased over the years.