To Aru Majutsu no Index Manga Discussion

[Acer]

They left some images from chapter 51, ​​the scene that lasted Tatemiya talks about Kanzaki when it is stuck and you can see the images q was an explanation of the magic of Lucia, which was not in the anime.

ps: Sorry for bad English

[Acer]

images: http://kodoku21.blog83.fc2.com/blog-entry-1895.html

[SilverSyko]

Okay so, after getting a rather unexpected answer from a certain someone who explained to me what they liked about this series, I decided to look into it myself. Sad to say it has not impressed me so far. It's by no means bad (yet), but it's certainly lacking. I've decided to post my thoughts about it here.

First I'll just say, NO I will NOT read the light novel and I do not intend to, as I do not find entertainment mediums that lack visual accompaniment very entertaining, and NO I will NOT watch the anime because adaptations (especially light novel ones) are usually shittier than the source material. Now with that out of the way...

(I will be drawing numerous subtle comparisons to One Piece, as it is what I consider the epitome of shounen battle manga and my favorite manga series ever. I will not refer to the series by name though, so just a heads up.)


I guess I'll start with the bad stuff:

Now first of all is the setting. My god is this unoriginal. How many fucking shounen series take place in a school setting which pertains to the theme the series surrounds? Too many to count. Not to mention that it takes place on Earth. Wow that's unimaginative. Couldn't you have at least created your OWN world or something? At least that would have actually made it interesting to learn about.

Second of all is the plot. What the fuck is going on? What are the characters supposed to be achieving? There's no goal presented for any of them here. Why am I supposed to keep reading if that's the case? The series could go on forever at this rate with these mini story arcs and never amount to any big climax. You could at least give me a general idea of how the series will be ending near the beginning.

Next is the some of the characters. They're not really bad they're just kind of flawed. Touma's undeveloped and uninteresting, it seems to me that his "amnesia" is just an excuse to refrain from giving him a backstory. Mikoto is just there, I don't see a purpose for her and her clones lost a purpose too as soon as Accelerator was defeated by Touma, so why keep her around? Index and Accelerator on the other hand I feel have been fleshed out properly. We have had Index's backstory explained to us showing us her importance and Accelerator has shown us that he is a nice guy deep down despite the killing he's done in the past. The other characters either haven't been shown enough for me to judge or I already just don't like them (Kuroko).

Lastly is Touma's Imagine Breaker. This ability just seems to be WAY too unfair and overpowered to me. If it's able to cancel out any magic or whatnot, then that makes him unbeatable right? Where's the fun in following a protagonist that can never face a challenge or even fail the odd time? None at all. Plus there's no explanation behind what it is. C'mon you're just gonna give the main character a unbeatable ability without even telling us why he has it? Fucking unbelievable.


Now for the GOOD things:

The concept. The science/psychic VS religion/magic theme here is something that's very intriguing. Unfortunately it's brought down by the non-existent plot and uninteresting characters at the moment, subtracting from the enjoyment.

The action. I very much enjoyed myself reading the intense action scenes. It's pretty much the only thing that I truly found entertaining about this series so far. Another reason I don't want to read the light novel is because it will lack these and that's a minus in my books.


I have been told that all the chapters so far are just an introduction. Well if you ask me it's fucking unacceptable to have an introduction this goddamn long. It's not even being used to the best of what it should be for. An introduction should be used to introduce and explain your characters, setting and plot. I'm not seeing much of that happening here.


Sorry for the long-ass post. I just had a lot to say. Don't know what anyone in this sub-forum sees in this series personally, but I guess that's cause they're reading the light novel. It's unlikely I ever will.

[Marcus H.]

Now first of all is the setting. My god is this unoriginal. How many fucking shounen series take place in a school setting which pertains to the theme the series surrounds? Too many to count. Not to mention that it takes place on Earth. Wow that's unimaginative. Couldn't you have at least created your OWN world or something?

Well, a shounen series set in a high school in Mars is original.

Second of all is the plot. What the fuck is going on? What are the characters supposed to be achieving? There's no goal presented for any of them here. Why am I supposed to keep reading if that's the case? The series could go on forever at this rate with these mini story arcs and never amount to any big climax. You could at least give me a general idea of how the series will be ending near the beginning.

I understand your pain, but do you think Kamachi would rewrite his light novels just to establish a plot for the manga adaptation? Of course not. That would be twice the pain on his ass, especially since he also writes the Railgun manga, the light novels, AND Heavy Object, which is another light novel series he writes.

Next is the some of the characters. They're not really bad they're just kind of flawed. Touma's undeveloped and uninteresting, it seems to me that his "amnesia" is just an excuse to refrain from giving him a backstory. Mikoto is just there, I don't see a purpose for her and her clones lost a purpose too as soon as Accelerator was defeated by Touma, so why keep her around? Index and Accelerator on the other hand I feel have been fleshed out properly. We have had Index's backstory explained to us showing us her importance and Accelerator has shown us that he is a nice guy deep down despite the killing he's done in the past. The other characters either haven't been shown enough for me to judge or I already just don't like them (Kuroko).

Oh don't hate Kuroko. She's just what she is.

Lastly is Touma's Imagine Breaker. This ability just seems to be WAY too unfair and overpowered to me. If it's able to cancel out any magic or whatnot, then that makes him unbeatable right? Where's the fun in following a protagonist that can never face a challenge or even fail the odd time? None at all. Plus there's no explanation behind what it is. C'mon you're just gonna give the main character a unbeatable ability without even telling us why he has it? Fucking unbelievable.

Imagine Breaker is only overpowered given the right circumstances, which happens pretty often. Plus, unless he is omniscient, he will have not a single idea as to why he has the Imagine Breaker in the first place. (Oh wait, he lost all his memories.)

_______________________________

That said, the Index manga is probably the weakest portion of the Index-Railgun franchise, particularly because it was released after the anime series started airing. The only advantage of the manga is that it can be more graphic than the anime series, but the manga has far less detail art-wise and has a story retold in another format with little changes.

[SilverSyko]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Well, a shounen series set in a high school in Mars is original.

To an extent, but it's still a real planet, so the only difference is that the story would take place in the far future where at least the colonization of other planets is possible.

I understand your pain, but do you think Kamachi would rewrite his light novels just to establish a plot for the manga adaptation? Of course not. That would be twice the pain on his ass, especially since he also writes the Railgun manga, the light novels, AND Heavy Object, which is another light novel series he writes.

Fair enough. Doesn't really make things better though. Without a clear goal there's no telling how long this series could last at this point.

Oh don't hate Kuroko. She's just what she is.

I've never liked psycho lesbian characters so why should I start now?

Imagine Breaker is only overpowered given the right circumstances, which happens pretty often. Plus, unless he is omniscient, he will have not a single idea as to why he has the Imagine Breaker in the first place. (Oh wait, he lost all his memories.)

Since the right circumstances happen pretty often, you're admitting right here that he's unbeatable.

That said, the Index manga is probably the weakest portion of the Index-Railgun franchise, particularly because it was released after the anime series started airing. The only advantage of the manga is that it can be more graphic than the anime series, but the manga has far less detail art-wise and has a story retold in another format with little changes.

I like more graphic fight scenes. Like I stated earlier the fights are the number one thing I like the most about the series right now. If the anime doesn't have that same level of bloodshed then it's inferior to me too.

And if you knew me, you'd realize that I don't give two shits about art style or art quality.

[Acer]

Even the manga index with these drawbacks, I still like him at first was horrible, but from the fifth volume began to improve, and the arches next to me were the best manga in the anime, the manga volume 8 added almost 10 pages in more than 44 chapter version of the magazine (which unfortunately did not do scanlators), giving better explanations, and now the arch of the Book of the Law is much better than q was told in the anime, though this was not difficult, since the anime squeezed the whole story. q is clearly going to have to readjust some points because of two four volumes have been skipped, but we still can have fun with reading.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

I have been told that all the chapters so far are just an introduction. Well if you ask me it's fucking unacceptable to have an introduction this goddamn long. It's not even being used to the best of what it should be for. An introduction should be used to introduce and explain your characters, setting and plot. I'm not seeing much of that happening here.

Which they did, but what you seem to demand for is a full biography top to bottom handed up front.

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

I guess I'll start with the bad stuff:

Now first of all is the setting. My god is this unoriginal. How many fucking shounen series take place in a school setting which pertains to the theme the series surrounds? Too many to count. Not to mention that it takes place on Earth. Wow that's unimaginative. Couldn't you have at least created your OWN world or something? At least that would have actually made it interesting to learn about.

You have a very high standard about what consults an 'original' setting, so high to the point that it requires a world new world to satisfy your requirement.

I would argue that it's precisely because it's in the modern world that's why it's interesting because you can draw parallels with certain myths and legends. This is the kind of setting that people that watch Supernatural (TV series) live for. And this is only one half of the world- There's also the science side which feeds the needs for the nerds that watches Fringe (TV Series) and other sci-fi series.

Essentially creating a world that holds both fantasies of mystic and Sci-fi, but drawing a very distinct line inbetween them but at the same time making it easy to relate and understand (mostly).

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Second of all is the plot. What the fuck is going on? What are the characters supposed to be achieving? There's no goal presented for any of them here. Why am I supposed to keep reading if that's the case? The series could go on forever at this rate with these mini story arcs and never amount to any big climax. You could at least give me a general idea of how the series will be ending near the beginning.

You've barely scratched the introductory phrase of the story, why are you so eager to jump to the end? Index is a massive story that had spanned over 20+ books, within each arc is a portion that adds up to main story which nobody would think much of it at first, but as you progress you realized it was all moving to a point.

Simply put, it's not the kind of story that throws everything out at once.

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Next is the some of the characters. They're not really bad they're just kind of flawed. Touma's undeveloped and uninteresting, it seems to me that his "amnesia" is just an excuse to refrain from giving him a backstory. Mikoto is just there, I don't see a purpose for her and her clones lost a purpose too as soon as Accelerator was defeated by Touma, so why keep her around? Index and Accelerator on the other hand I feel have been fleshed out properly. We have had Index's backstory explained to us showing us her importance and Accelerator has shown us that he is a nice guy deep down despite the killing he's done in the past. The other characters either haven't been shown enough for me to judge or I already just don't like them (Kuroko).

I could answer all of these questions, but first I need to know if you're okay with spoilers?

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Lastly is Touma's Imagine Breaker. This ability just seems to be WAY too unfair and overpowered to me. If it's able to cancel out any magic or whatnot, then that makes him unbeatable right? Where's the fun in following a protagonist that can never face a challenge or even fail the odd time? None at all. Plus there's no explanation behind what it is. C'mon you're just gonna give the main character a unbeatable ability without even telling us why he has it? Fucking unbelievable.

It's not unbeatable, the number of limits it has kept it so. The area it affect only covers his right hand, every other part is free game.

Again this goes back to expecting everything to be explained in the introductory stage is clearly unreasonable. The Author gave you enough information to get by the basic and that's all you need at this stage.

If you want more then read more.

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Since the right circumstances happen pretty often, you're admitting right here that he's unbeatable.

Flawed argument, he was injured badly several times in almost every fight.

By your definition, all protagonist in every story is unbeatable.

[rod_spikes]

Can someone PM me the newest chapters too?thx

[SilverSyko]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Which they did, but what you seem to demand for is a full biography top to bottom handed up front.

No, I expect something along the lines of what Index and Accelerator got during these chapters for ALL the main characters. Tell me, just from the chapters so far what do we know about Touma? Not very much.

Part of Luffy's backstory was told in the very first chapter. We got to witness what drove him to be a pirate and what sparked his dream in the first place.

You have a very high standard about what consults an 'original' setting, so high to the point that it requires a world new world to satisfy your requirement.

Only when it comes to shounen battle manga. Any other genre I'd be more lenient with. There's no excuse to not create your own deep world to accompany your characters and story.

I would argue that it's precisely because it's in the modern world that's why it's interesting because you can draw parallels with certain myths and legends. This is the kind of setting that people that watch Supernatural (TV series) live for. And this is only one half of the world- There's also the science side which feeds the needs for the nerds that watches Fringe (TV Series) and other sci-fi series.

Essentially creating a world that holds both fantasies of mystic and Sci-fi, but drawing a very distinct line inbetween them but at the same time making it easy to relate and understand (mostly).

One Piece does this already too, although instead of making them completely different things it tries to show that every "mystic phenomenon" in the world actually has a scientific explanation behind it, implying they're one and the same. It makes a lot more sense to me for "magic" to be the product of science.

You've barely scratched the introductory phrase of the story, why are you so eager to jump to the end? Index is a massive story that had spanned over 20+ books, within each arc is a portion that adds up to main story which nobody would think much of it at first, but as you progress you realized it was all moving to a point.

Simply put, it's not the kind of story that throws everything out at once.

One Piece's goal was introduced in the very first chapter of the series. Luffy wants to find One Piece and become the Pirate King. That has been the ultimate goal for the series ever since and all the chapters so far are only building up to it to show that One Piece may be more than just a treasure. Plus as new crew members joined, each had their own ambitions to accomplish.

This series has not presented anything like this so far.

I could answer all of these questions, but first I need to know if you're okay with spoilers?

No. I'll read about it if the manga ever gets to it.

It's not unbeatable, the number of limits it has kept it so. The area it affect only covers his right hand, every other part is free game.

Again this goes back to expecting everything to be explained in the introductory stage is clearly unreasonable. The Author gave you enough information to get by the basic and that's all you need at this stage.

If you want more then read more..

Again, Luffy's ability to stretch like rubber was explained IN THE FIRST CHAPTER. So one doesn't have to wonder just why the heck he can do it in the first place.

Flawed argument, he was injured badly several times in almost every fight.

By your definition, all protagonist in every story is unbeatable.

He was injured, but he never lost a fight yet right? Maybe I would have been able to believe it easier if he lost to Accelerator once and then won after re-challenging him.

And when a character has an ability that's the bane of almost every other character's method of fighting in the series, then that can be considered practically unbeatable.

[leukrota]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

One Piece does this already too, although instead of making them completely different things it tries to show that every "mystic phenomenon" in the world actually has a scientific explanation behind it, implying they're one and the same. It makes a lot more sense to me for "magic" to be the product of science.

C'mon, it's fiction. Why does magic have to be scientific?

Along with other arguments you're doing, it seems that you don't like Index cause it's different from One Piece in structure and narrative... where's the originality you where asking for if the author has to copy those things?

Regardless, I'd advice you to judge anything you read/watch on it's own merits rather than comparing it to other works, which I know comes naturally, but that comparison can prevent you from discovering the "unique flavors" of a creator's work. At least that's what I try to do, to different degrees of success.

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

He was injured, but he never lost a fight yet right? Maybe I would have been able to believe it easier if he lost to Accelerator once and then won after re-challenging him.

And when a character has an ability that's the bane of almost every other character's method of fighting in the series, then that can be considered practically unbeatable.

Without spoiling anything, Touma does lose some fights, as a rare occurrence but it does happen. (One of which you won't read on the manga as the arc was skipped. )

[Ashaman]

(I will be drawing numerous subtle comparisons to One Piece, as it is what I consider the epitome of shounen battle manga and my favorite manga series ever. I will not refer to the series by name though, so just a heads up.)

Alright, 1st problem - Seeing as you see One Piece as the best, you're comparing everything to it, and anything that deviates from the formula One Piece set down is bad.

From the start, this reasoning is flawed.

The two series are very different -, Luffy and One Pieceby extension, as you said, has a clear goal. He is a proactive protaganist.

Touma is not. He is a reactive protaganst. The reason he does stuff and helps people isn't because he has some lofty goal or desire; he does it because someone is suffering in front of him, and he can't stand that.

You don't need some tragic backstory or ideal to up hold in order to want to help someone

The fact of the matter is Touma doesn't have any goals expect to live a happy and normal life and keep those he is close to safe. And you know, there's nother wrong with that.

Its the same with several of the other characters - they just want to live their lives peacefully. That is their goal.

To compare Index to One Piece is to compare apples and oranges - sure they're both friut, but they're still completely different.

There's no excuse to not create your own deep world to accompany your characters and story.

Actually, there is a deep and complex world that's been hinted at, including a strange tension between scinece and magic sides, how magic and religion intertwine, Academy City's role in the over all world, etc.

It makes a lot more sense to me for "magic" to be the product of science

This pretty much is a denial of the setting itself

So one doesn't have to wonder just why the heck he can do it in the first place.

What a strange statement to make - I'm sure it was discussed in the very frist chapter that Touma's an Esper and therefore him having an abilty shouldn't be anything too strange.

Basically, the idea of him having this abilty in a city where people go through a course to develop supernatural abilities should naturally lead to the conclusion that he got the abilty that way.

the fact that its later proven to be false is neither here nor there. IB is one of the main mysteries of the series; why would you reveal one of the main mysteries so soon?

Lord knows many things are teased for dozens if not 100's of chapters in long running series.

[Nayrael]

There's no excuse to not create your own deep world to accompany your characters and story.

Author's goal was to check how OUR world would look and work if Espers and Magicians existed. The whole point is that everything happens in a world almost identical to ours. Not to mention that majority of existing stories happen in our world anyway.

Writers create fictional worlds when they need to and use ours when they need to. Index NEEDS to be in ours for it to do what it wants to. If you can't understand that than drop this Manga and don't read anything that is not happening in a fictional world (which is more than 50% of the stories in existence).

[julioalqae]

Silversyko: i think to aru world and story is not your thing..... well...i think you are just another "sentiment" good natured #ehem# hater who didn't like to aru in the first place.... comparing to aru with one piece was ridiculous.., but i admit it to aru had some plot hole in the story but that wasn't too big. and To aru isn't "all favorite" manga, anime type like one piece, naruto etc.

[I_am_Kami]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

First I'll just say, NO I will NOT read the light novel and I do not intend to, as I do not find entertainment mediums that lack visual accompaniment very entertaining, and NO I will NOT watch the anime because adaptations (especially light novel ones) are usually shittier than the source material. Now with that out of the way...

PFAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


So you thought it would be best to read the worst adaptation that is called Index Manga?

Genius.

And using One Piece as a better example? What a scholar.

[Breidaluk]

Silversyko, to know better something you have to see from the start. Just the manga will not provide the necessary understanding of the story. It would be the best if you read first the Light Novel. The manga and the anime always have something lacking. And the most prominent aspect in the story is that there always one point or other that's left for us to think. All the story is a mix between the present and the past and the most interesting is gather those pieces and put them in order.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

So you thought it would be best to read the worst adaptation that is called Index Manga?

Okay what ? Why is the manga considered the worst adaptation? Sure it skipped 2 volumes, but the ones it adapted were quite well done.

[Flere821]

The manga is a adaption. The light novels are the source materials. A adaption isn't going to match the original in most cases (frankly, the only exception I can think of was Star War 3's Novelization - now that was possibly better than the original movie).

And Touma can be hurt, just that he was lucky (heh, the irony) enough to never meet the paper that beats his rock. Against guns or tech weapons by himself and he's pretty much toast since Imagine Breaker doesn't stop non-supernatural things.
Call it 'Ass Pull' if you wish, but belonging to a City of Science means the tech stuff is normally directed at your opponents rather than yourself. Explainable and logical, even if story-wise it's provides a convenient excuse for the protagonist to never get one-hit-killed without a way to fight back. eg, Touma's not going to be able to fight a SWAT team armed to the teeth, let alone win. That's supporting cast characters are for.

[I_am_Kami]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Okay what ? Why is the manga considered the worst adaptation? Sure it skipped 2 volumes, but the ones it adapted were quite well done.

Mainly why

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Flere821

Explainable and logical, even if story-wise it's provides a convenient excuse for the protagonist to never get one-hit-killed without a way to fight back. eg, Touma's not going to be able to fight a SWAT team armed to the teeth, let alone win. That's supporting cast characters are for.

Well technically he was chased by Hound Dog mercs, Skill-Out thugs, as well as a full squad of Anti-Skill officers once so it's not like he does have any experience with guns... He just doesn't confront them head on.

[SilverSyko]

Originally Posted by leukrota

C'mon, it's fiction. Why does magic have to be scientific?

Along with other arguments you're doing, it seems that you don't like Index cause it's different from One Piece in structure and narrative... where's the originality you where asking for if the author has to copy those things?

It doesn't have to be, it just makes sense for "magic" to be science. Ever hear the term "magic of science"?

I believe content itself is what gauges originality, not the way it's written and/or presented. How many other manga series' do you know that are about seafaring pirates for example?

The fact of the matter is Touma doesn't have any goals expect to live a happy and normal life and keep those he is close to safe. And you know, there's nother wrong with that.

Its the same with several of the other characters - they just want to live their lives peacefully. That is their goal.

It's not a very interesting goal then, as it pretty much goes without saying. Why is this series a battle manga if there's no adventure to it all? It might as well be a slice-of-life. Not to mention this is usually always a theme presented in various series.

What a strange statement to make - I'm sure it was discussed in the very frist chapter that Touma's an Esper and therefore him having an abilty shouldn't be anything too strange.

Basically, the idea of him having this abilty in a city where people go through a course to develop supernatural abilities should naturally lead to the conclusion that he got the abilty that way.

I seem to recall Touma stating that he WASN'T a Psychic, and that his rank was 0. Which leads me to believe that his Imagine Breaker is not a normal ability and therefore has a different origin.

You can have mysteries, but I don't think how he obtained this ability should be one of them. (Unless he was just born with it, in which case, fine.)

Author's goal was to check how OUR world would look and work if Espers and Magicians existed. The whole point is that everything happens in a world almost identical to ours. Not to mention that majority of existing stories happen in our world anyway.

Hm, you do make a good point here. I just figured an original world would allow for the series to be a little more imaginative. It's fiction after all so why not go all out?

Silversyko: i think to aru world and story is not your thing..... well...i think you are just another "sentiment" good natured #ehem# hater who didn't like to aru in the first place.... comparing to aru with one piece was ridiculous.., but i admit it to aru had some plot hole in the story but that wasn't too big. and To aru isn't "all favorite" manga, anime type like one piece, naruto etc.

To be honest, very early on I did shrug it off as a rather nonsensical harem series with some action (As that's what light novel series usually tend to be from my experience). Now, from some convincing words from someone else and that I've actually checked it out for myself, I will say it's not as bad as I originally believed.

So you thought it would be best to read the worst adaptation that is called Index Manga?

Genius.

And using One Piece as a better example? What a scholar.

I knew the manga was an adaptation too. Just that from personal experience manga adaptations are usually much better than anime ones, and judging from what I have heard here, that is true for this series.

Also, next time try actually contributing something to the debate rather than insult my intelligence with sarcasm.

And I know you like One Piece too, so you don't have much room to talk mate.

And Touma can be hurt, just that he was lucky (heh, the irony) enough to never meet the paper that beats his rock. Against guns or tech weapons by himself and he's pretty much toast since Imagine Breaker doesn't stop non-supernatural things.

Yeah, I remember the fight he had with the swordswoman character. (Forget her name.) Since she didn't use magic or psionics, she was a foe that Touma had trouble fighting.

I am just mostly under the impression that not very many enemies in the series will fight with weapons or martial arts, since magic and science are the main themes.


Anyway, I notice I am a little at fault for comparing it to One Piece. I guess just because something is the same genre I shouldn't have the same expectations. Mostly when I think of a "shounen battle manga" I think of an adventure, but this series isn't like that.

I'm contemplating switching over to the light novel, cause while I will really miss the cool fight scenes the manga has, if it's actually skipping entire volumes of the original story then it's probably not the best choice.

No guarantee about that though. Like I said I find it very difficult to get into novels in general.