Nanoha Franchise General Discussion Thread

[Nanya01]

Oh, and Demi., one last thing...

Fate's a minor character in Force and Vivid, and I honestly stopped expecting her to even appear.

Welcome to how the rest of the fans feel about Yuuno, Chrono, most of the Numbers, Shamal and Zafira! We'll get you a party hat and you can sit down and enjoy the little screen time she gets from here on out and take what you can get from her in ViVid and Force.

[Sansker]

Yes, but Fate has been a major character in the first two seasons where all the others you mention Nanya were always side characters.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Sansker

Yes, but Fate has been a major character in the first two seasons where all the others you mention Nanya were always side characters.

Big deal. The feeling's still the same, and it's not a pleasant feeling, seeing characters they like get sidelined.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by Sansker

Yes, but Fate has been a major character in the first two seasons where all the others you mention Nanya were always side characters.

I'm sorry, Yuuno says hello as one of the 3 main characters of Season 1 who got dropped after A's.

Also, the Numbers say "hi" as the Antagonists of StrikerS.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Ultimately, Demi., regardless of what you, Triple_R or other think, Fate had the most screen time of the A's movie, and when she wasn't on, a lot of time (Lindy and Arf talking comes to mind), it seems to be helping develop Fate.

Except I really don't buy that. I'm almost certain Nanoha and Fate have near identical screen time. I'll say it as many times as I have to. Fate had very few scenes where she wasn't with Nanoha. Ironically, those two had way more screen time than anyone in the series. The movie simply followed suit. And if you must blame Nanoha's development issues on something, blame it on Tsuzuki not managing Nanohas screen time well enough.

Welcome to how the rest of the fans feel about Yuuno, Chrono, most of the Numbers, Shamal and Zafira! We'll get you a party hat and you can sit down and enjoy the little screen time she gets from here on out and take what you can get from her in ViVid and Force.

Except you don't see me finding every opportunity to insult the characters who are getting the majority of screen time in Force. Caring is one thing, making a temper tantrum out of it is another.

[Sansker]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

I'm sorry, Yuuno says hello as one of the 3 main characters of Season 1 who got dropped after A's.

Also, the Numbers say "hi" as the Antagonists of StrikerS.

Yuuno, yes. The Numbers: Which one? 12 of them and the only reason I can remember their names is because they are numbers. Also their characters were not strong enough in the anime so they need manga and sound satage to be something. At least Yuuno didn't need to be explain in those to be kind of important in the first seasons.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Except I really don't buy that. I'm almost certain Nanoha and Fate have near identical screen time. I'll say it as many times as I have to. Fate had very few scenes where she wasn't with Nanoha. Ironically, those two had way more screen time than anyone in the series. The movie simply followed suit. And if you must blame Nanoha's development issues on something, blame it on Tsuzuki not managing Nanohas screen time well enough.

You think I don't blame him over it?

Again, her family being missing hurts her development by a significant margin in the movies.

Except you don't see me finding every opportunity to insult the characters who are getting the majority of screen time in Force. Caring is one thing, raging because of it is another.

Oh, but you're thinking it. You won't even read Force anymore because you don't want to be disappointed by the lack of Fate time, I know this, I've seen your comments how "as for Force and Vivid, I can't even muster the effort to give them a second chance."

And how the "series went from character(s) I adored, to characters I don't even want to see on screen."

So, really, Demi., I know you're complaining about it, I know that, deep down, you're raging about it as much as I have about the 2nd movie and how it handled the characters, action and other things.

So, yes, I care about the franchise, a lot. I like the franchise.

But that doesn't mean I won't tear the flaws apart if they're so apparent they make what I'm seeing unenjoyable.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Oh, but you're thinking it. You won't even read Force anymore because you don't want to be disappointed by the lack of Fate time, I know this, I've seen your comments how "as for Force and Vivid, I can't even muster the effort to give them a second chance."

And how the "series went from character(s) I adored, to characters I don't even want to see on screen."

So, really, Demi., I know you're complaining about it, I know that, deep down, you're raging about it as much as I have about the 2nd movie and how it handled the characters, action and other things.

So, yes, I care about the franchise, a lot. I like the franchise.


But that doesn't mean I won't tear the flaws apart if they're so apparent they make what I'm seeing unenjoyable.

You think? You're willingly watching stuff you come into knowing you will hate with a passion. I'm avoiding the stuff I know I will hate. There is a line to when something displeases you so greatly, it's time to move on. You're being a negative Nancy. I think it's gone long past the point of merely being critical. You get genuinely upset when someone enjoys the movie.

[aers]

Is there really an argument going on suggesting that the third (or fourth, would have to double check) best selling TV anime of 2007 lost money?

[Sansker]

I don't see how the fact of how much money it make back then was important at all so I guess is fine.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Sansker

Also their characters were not strong enough in the anime so they need manga and sound satage to be something. At least Yuuno didn't need to be explain in those to be kind of important in the first seasons.

Yeah, Yuuno actually got some proper character building before he got train'ed. The Numbers had no such luck, their development in the anime was lacking severely.

Originally Posted by aers

Is there really an argument going on suggesting that the third (or fourth, would have to double check) best selling TV anime of 2007 lost money?

Beats me. Let's bust that one, shall we?

According to the handy chart Nanya provided, StrikerS would have cost somewhere between 260.000.000 to 340.000.000 yen.

StrikerS at last known count sold 203318 DVD copies.

The average price of a DVD in Japan is... around 5000 yen. Nanoha currently still sells for 5800, which means that the Nanoha DVD's sold for 1.179.244.400 yen.

From this very rough point of view, the StrikerS anime alone, before calculating merchandise, was already a major profit.

[Nanya01]

A DVD in Japan costs... FIFTY-THREE BUCKS?!

Wow, just... Wow.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by Demi.

You think? You're willingly watching stuff you come into knowing you will hate with a passion.

And how will I know that I hate it if I don't watch it?

Yes, I was worried and upset about certain things going in, but the movie could have surprised me had the action been better.

Sure, I'd have some complaints, but all I was looking for was good action, since I had a pretty good idea, going in, what was going to be there. But since the action was incredibly bland...

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

A DVD in Japan costs... FIFTY-THREE BUCKS?!

Wow, just... Wow.

And might only have two or three episodes, depending on the series. Take a look at these prices for example.

... Speaking of which, StrikerS currently still sells for 5800 yen a DVD. Makes me wonder how ungodly expensive it was when it was first released.

[Nanya01]

Originally Posted by Keroko

And might only have two or three episodes, depending on the series. Take a look at these prices for example.

... Speaking of which, StrikerS currently still sells for 5800 yen a DVD. Makes me wonder how ungodly expensive it was when it was first released.

SHEESH!

What a rip-off!

[Keroko]

Also puts StrikerS at 1.179.244.400 yen. Even with the lots of pieces 'o pie that will get cut of (retailers, storage, etc.) that's a massive profit.

[Nanya01]

Of course, a question I have is, how much did the TV networks make for airing it?

Originally Posted by Demi.

You were expecting something from the sequel to the movie you gave a 1?

Not much, I admit. But, I guess I'm just crazy, seeing as I like the characters, I like the world building, I enjoyed Season 1. While A's wasn't my favorite season, I still recognized it was good.

It's like someone not liking Cowboy Beebop all that much, but still realizing it's good, even if they're not the biggest fans of it.

[Demi.]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

And how will I know that I hate it if I don't watch it?

Yes, I was worried and upset about certain things going in, but the movie could have surprised me had the action been better.

Sure, I'd have some complaints, but all I was looking for was good action, since I had a pretty good idea, going in, what was going to be there. But since the action was incredibly bland...

You were expecting something from the sequel to the movie you gave a 1?

[speedyexpress48]

Originally Posted by Nanya01

Of course, a question I have is, how much did the TV networks make for airing it?

Again;

Originally Posted by speedyexpress48

One problem; networks rarely pay for anime. It's usually the other way around...anime producers BUY slots from the network as promotion for advertising.

For usual long running shonen, not so much, but for late night anime (like Nanoha), that's basically how it works...

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Demi.

Where did you get that idea? I just don't think of the two as a single entity. Fate works fine for me solo. Yet there is no denying how well their dynamic is portrayed. And I love to see the subtle development between the two.

Because in a post in the A's movie thread, you seemed very insistent that you mostly only really care about Fate.

But they're not main characters, they never have been.

Your circular logic again. They don't deserve development because they aren't main characters. In order to get development, they'd need to be main characters, but they aren't main characters so they don't get development.

I think we went over this many times before, but I'll say it again. The battles. Fate has a few, short battles. Nanoha has more battles, and each and every one is longer than Fate's. Other than that, there are some other transition scenes where Fate is not with her. Like when she's preparing for the reunion at the beginning, or while she was at the roof top, prior to Vita's arrival. And honestly, the series was no different. Fate is the same way, she has a few small fights, some development, and the rest is screen time with Nanoha. You clearly forget all of the many NanoFate scenes the series had which do not exist in this movie. Why should the movie drastically diminish what the series had a ton of?

Ya know, I'm gonna start using your arguments to show how you sound, and say: Because Fate is a side character.

To be frank, that's not how a relationship works, Kaijo. Whether it be friends or lovers -- they exist for each other.

You aren't in a relationship, are you? Because that isn't healthy. No matter what kind of relationship, you don't purely exist for the other person. You are your own person. Trust me, when you try to get that "I exist solely for you!" mindset, other people find it clingy and creepy.

Of course, if they are building up for Nanoha and Fate to separate, perhaps it makes sense....

I never used Chrono or any other minor character in my example. I merely stated that if you want to start sapping Fate's screen time away to develop minor characters, you should be doing it to the other main characters as well. That is true objectivity.

You said to do it to the other mains so I was seeing what I could take from Chrono and... oh, wait! I see, since Nanoha and Fate are the only mains, then they are the only ones to take screen time from! Okay, I'll add back Yuuno's screentime, and only focus on taking it from Nanoha and Fate.

Again, Fate's not the only "wealthy" one in this movie. If you're going to take from the rich and give to the poor, then at least be fair about it.

I think you're just referring to Hayate and the Wolks, because you don't see anyone else as a main character, so you want me to take equal time from Hayate and the Wolks. Okay, fine. The only problem is that the entire plot revolves around the Yagami-ke and their feelings. It's Hayate's movie. It's not Fate's, who is a side character, a supporting character, in Hayate's movie.

Give Nanoha a hundred+ episodes, and then we can talk. Mostly all shounens move at a snails pace, they can afford to develop each and every character. They have the episode count to maintain such a large cast.

Nanoha has 52 episodes. In the first 52 episodes of Fairy Tail, more people got development than Nanoha did. And FT covered at least 4 separate story arcs in that time.

Well, they did do two manga series, and that was years ago. To me, it doesn't matter if the series is profitable, because the movies are even more profitable. Why settle for something less profitable?

You don't want money? You wouldn't last long in the business world.