AnimeSuki Forums

felix · 2011-10-20, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by creb

They've already said that will be the topic of "Episode Zero" which will only air in theaters. And, no, it doesn't make any sense.

Money. Money. Money.

Video games do this same thing a lot these days too. Albeit in a slightly different way.

Maceart · 2011-10-20, 16:36

People are missing the point of this show. It's not a simple "who did it?" and "gotcha!" type detective anime. The setting clues the viewers in on something much more sinister, such as the "internet protection act" and "idols singing to raise morale during a war." This show screams of being an Orwellian critique on society.

Also, the case in episode 2 had no clear winner. Both detectives knew what would happen by showing the culprit of the murder. It's just that the government detective seem to hide more than he knew.

felix · 2011-10-20, 16:53

@Maceart

Agree on the deeper message being the point. Don't think the "internet protection act" is actually that important as you're making it though, since this is a noitaminA theme more so then a theme for the show.

That being said, it's hard to detach from the detective anime stereotype when you follow it to the letter: suspects, clues, fake culprit, motive, confession.

ars89 · 2011-10-20, 19:57

Like how they uploaded the song at the end. Inga is still awesome. I wonder what the detective meant by he's still searching. Maybe it has to do with the opening scene from the first ep. Didn't know who it was this time until they played the song and the detective figured it out as well. Like how Rinroku keeps fabricating ways to close the cases without the real person getting in trouble.

Guardian Enzo · 2011-10-20, 20:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maceart

People are missing the point of this show. It's not a simple "who did it?" and "gotcha!" type detective anime. The setting clues the viewers in on something much more sinister, such as the "internet protection act" and "idols singing to raise morale during a war." This show screams of being an Orwellian critique on society.

Also, the case in episode 2 had no clear winner. Both detectives knew what would happen by showing the culprit of the murder. It's just that the government detective seem to hide more than he knew.

Yep - there's a definite dystopian thing playing out that trumps the actual mysteries. This was written in the 40's, when the halcyon days of fascism were still fresh on the minds of the world.

Kakkou · 2011-10-20, 22:09

Second episode was really good, so much better than the first, though Inga (boy ver.) is starting to feel a little more annoying. The setting is shaping up to be fascinating with it's lack of justice and dystopic atmosphere.

The final part with the mass uploading of the Yonagahime song was a sweet way to not make the case a complete victory on Rinshoku's part.

Makes me wonder how the original novels handled the cases and setting, seeing that they were not futuristic. There wouldn't be any Internet Prohibition Act or the whatnot unlike what Bones has set up. Not quite sure if the whole supernatural aspect surrounding Inga would have been present either but it's interesting if it were.

Forsaken_Infinity · 2011-10-20, 22:46

I really liked this episode. I agree with Maceart almost wholeheartedly.

Even taken at a face value, the mystery this time around was decent (it wasn't quite as blatantly obvious as the one on the first episode but it was still obvious enough for me to call out "man... so obvious QQ" the moment I saw the girl. They almost had me going later in the episode for a second with the other two though. But given the fact that the girl was singing, that her voice was used and that the rest of the idol group were far too old to have been her teammates, and when it was revealed that the girl's mom was the manager of the group - there was just no way to doubt anyone but the girl. At least though, I certainly didn't think that the video itself was faked too (yeah... kinda obvious if you figured out the rest lol, but I suppose I am too kind to assume absolutely everything was faked). In any case, the motive of the criminal was much more personal - and thus, much more real - compared to the one last episode.

Regarding the mass upload of the song, I don't think it was done by the MC (Shinjurou doesn't come to me like most names do and Yuuki feels unlike the MC - and well, there's Yukkii from Mirai Nikki etc., so I am just gonna call him the MC) - it was done by that pirate whose discs got confiscated. It was thus not an attempt by the MC to not make the case a complete victory on Rinshoku's part. And in any case, Rinshoku got pretty much all the downloads and uploads interrupted anyway.

Now if only those future generations of Vocaloid could be imported in the current day >_>

Kakkou · 2011-10-20, 23:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity

Regarding the mass upload of the song, I don't think it was done by the MC (Shinjurou doesn't come to me like most names do and Yuuki feels unlike the MC - and well, there's Yukkii from Mirai Nikki etc., so I am just gonna call him the MC) - it was done by that pirate whose discs got confiscated. It was thus not an attempt by the MC to not make the case a complete victory on Rinshoku's part. And in any case, Rinshoku got pretty much all the downloads and uploads interrupted anyway.

Not all the downloads and uploads were successfully interrupted, which is why the song started playing all around town to the point that the culprit girl (forgot her name, whoops) heard it. Rinshoku's expression at the end as he was being flooded by upload attempts too fast for him to entirely stop was that of a "Hah, you got me" look imo.

The uploads were definitely done by the pirate but it seems like Shinjurou was the one who instigated it from an earlier scene where the pirate asked him if it was okay. I presume that was when Shinjurou got the pirate to create the song with his earlier recording of culprit girl singing the lyrics and the music track of the original song.

wandering-dreamer · 2011-10-20, 23:07

I was also amused at the similar dates in UN-GO and Guilty Crown, also at how Miku had a two second cameo in the first episode and then vocaloids are mentioned as "ancient technology in this one"

Spoiler for episode two musing:

And I had been wondering if all the uploads/downloads had been interrupted or not, it didn't look so but the Chairman looked pretty smug. Hell, don't these people have USBs they could pass around secretly as well?

Guardian Enzo · 2011-10-20, 23:12

There are certainly common themes to both NoitaminA shows this season, though we've already seen these kinds of ideas popping into other series over the last year or so. It may not be entirely coincidental that all of these dystopian elements focusing on the threat to individual liberty are finding there way into anime just as Ishihara is turning his xenophobic ire on the industry. The interesting thing, though, is that we're also seeing them tied in with a kind of anti-internationalism that would be right at home at an Ishihara rally.

Forsaken_Infinity · 2011-10-20, 23:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakkou

Not all the downloads and uploads were successfully interrupted, which is why the song started playing all around town to the point that the culprit girl (forgot her name, whoops) heard it. Rinshoku's expression at the end as he was being flooded by upload attempts too fast for him to entirely stop was that of a "Hah, you got me" look imo.

The uploads were definitely done by the pirate but it seems like Shinjurou was the one who instigated it from an earlier scene where the pirate asked him if it was okay. I presume that was when Shinjurou got the pirate to create the song with his earlier recording of culprit girl singing the lyrics and the music track of the original song.

When the pirate asked if it was okay, imo, the MC traded the song with him for having the voice analyzed. That "is that okay?" sounded a lot more like "you alright with that? This is a goldmine for me you know" kind of deal than just "are you sure? This could put us in risk". But the MC did seem to sympathize with the girl, as Idra pointed out, so he could have just given the pirate the song too.

In any case, you are correct about the song being played around the town to the point the girl heard it - I thought Rinshoku managed to interrupt most of it when I watched it first time around (I kind of assumed that a internet protection scheme would seriously not require someone to constantly hit the keyboard >_>, and there were download attempts being interrupted without him doing anything too) and that only Rinshoku's daughter got the song from the MC that was being played as the girl decided to just get up and continue singing for herself but apparently the whole town was playing the song >_<. I really think the version I made up is "more beautiful" too

But oh well, I suppose the MC did gain something on Rinshoku with that - at the least, he did something for the girl while still not condoning her for her crime. I still think that the MC didn't get the song uploaded to gain a little something on Rinshoku but rather because he was sympathetic to the girl though.

Kakkou · 2011-10-21, 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity

I still think that the MC didn't get the song uploaded to gain a little something on Rinshoku but rather because he was sympathetic to the girl though.

Oh, I also doubt he did it to one up Rinshoku, I just meant that story wise Rinshoku didn't have everything go as he planned. What you said about the pirate doing it on his own seems just as likely, perhaps as revenge for his latest product being banned and confiscated.

Blue-kun · 2011-10-21, 07:59

It's good to see that the show does seem to have something bigger going on in the background, this way it doesn't need to live only of the mystery of the week, which while good, is also risky should they not be able to produce relatively interesting mysteries to keep it going. This time around, though, while far from being brilliant, I gotta say it was probably one of the most solid cases I've seen in anime this year, and comparing it to shows like Gosick and Kamisama it was definitely a step above.

Quote:

Regarding the mass upload of the song, I don't think it was done by the MC (Shinjurou doesn't come to me like most names do and Yuuki feels unlike the MC - and well, there's Yukkii from Mirai Nikki etc., so I am just gonna call him the MC) - it was done by that pirate whose discs got confiscated. It was thus not an attempt by the MC to not make the case a complete victory on Rinshoku's part. And in any case, Rinshoku got pretty much all the downloads and uploads interrupted anyway.

I think it was planned between them, and Shinjurou had at least a hand at it. There's that scene where he meets the dol-pri guy and he's sending something from his mobile phone to the other guy's PC. The dol-pri guy even asks if he's "sure about this". However, I also don't think it was done solely to one up Rinshoku, since it seems like Shinjurou actually sympathized with the girl, as people said. He was even trying to "delay" revealing the culprit to Inga before, because surely he already had the case cracked in his head there...

And about that scene, it was probably one of the highlights of this episode. Just what exactly is Inga to Shinjurou, and why is he unable to refuse whatever she said. Hopefully this will be explained (before the episode 0 thing), since it seems to be pretty important at understanding Shinjurou's character more. His speech at the end directed at Rinshoku was another pretty good moment. Makes me wonder if he's going through all this 'defeated thing' in order to get to the bottom of the question of the whole conspiracy ideas he seemed to have? Maybe his own "death"/accident (that first scene of the first episode) is connected to one of these many lies fabricated by the government? I don't know.

Lastly, I love that Blue Light Yokohama song. Did not know it before, but apparently the original version is from 1969 by a lady called Ishida Ayumi. It is pretty nice, but I actually prefer UN-GO's version here. Wonder if it'll get released in a single? I hope so, because Kiyono Yasuno's voice is really nice. And she seems to be a rookie, too?

Anyway! Gimme ep3!

Kanon · 2011-10-21, 08:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maceart

People are missing the point of this show. It's not a simple "who did it?" and "gotcha!" type detective anime. The setting clues the viewers in on something much more sinister, such as the "internet protection act" and "idols singing to raise morale during a war." This show screams of being an Orwellian critique on society.

Everybody see that, and it is indeed the most interesting aspect of the show. However, it doesn't make the actual mysteries any better. That said, this week's case was actually pretty good, even if I correctly guessed who the culprit was as soon as I saw her once again. The sole fact the story was told it was told from Shinjurou's point of view made it more pleasant to follow. We actually got to see how he works this time, and he didn't pull any deduction out of his ass.

Am I the only one extremely bothered that nothing happened to the culprit once again? It's one thing not to publicly prosecute her in fear sensitive information would be exposed, it's another to let a murderer go free. The government is obviously not afraid of dirtying its hand, so they could have disposed of her... quietly just like they did with the Uncle. They would have gotten rid of a murderer and a potential risk to national security at the same time. That would have made the conclusion of the case even darker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Yep - there's a definite dystopian thing playing out that trumps the actual mysteries. This was written in the 40's, when the halcyon days of fascism were still fresh on the minds of the world.

The original novel was set in the Meiji era though, so do those dystopian elements really originate from it or is it original material? I can't seem to find any info on that novel.

Kirarakim · 2011-10-21, 09:23

I thought the 2nd episode was better than the first but I'm still not that impressed. Perhaps I would be more interested in Inga if he/she wasn't dressed in that ridiculous panda outfit that really doesn't work with the tone the show is trying to create.

As for a larger picture yes I'm sure, but I can't remember the last time Studio Bones actually delivered a good original ending (in fact the ending is usually where they muck up). If this anime's selling point is a larger picture I am afraid that doesn't fill me with confidence.

Last Sinner · 2011-10-21, 12:04

Regarding info on the novel, haven't been able to find much. What I did find was the author was heavily versed in Buddhism + Indian philosophy and was a fair political commentator at the time.

After Episode 2, I finally feel this show has revealed where it actually wants to go. Episode 1 left it murky and made the whodunnit seem like the main factor, which shouldn't have happened. Episode 2 now makes it clear the idea of a dystopian world full of tyranny like the nightmare worlds of classic novels like Nighteen Eighty Four and Fahrenheit 451 and the perils within that the state enforces to bring about such a world are the primary focus. Rewriting history with lies to make society supposedly better. Fabrication of various forms of media to induce the desired rhetoric and popular opinion within the masses. Heavy censorship to prevent people getting what they want via freedom of choice. They're relevant issues worth exploring. Certainly the best thing going for UN-GO so far is the world setting and the social issues it's confronting.

The main issue though is the characters. 2 episodes into a one-season show and we still know next to nothing about them! We know the Professor is a professional liar, that Rie does seem to prefer logic + truth and may rebel if she understands the true scope of the consequences of her father's actions. We know Shinjurou and Inga are two of very few people seeking to bring the truth to the forefront. And that's all...I want to know more about what brought about Shinjurou and Inga pairing up. I want to see Rie get more airtime and get a more active role in the mix. I want to see what made the Professor decide to become dedicated to weaving the lies he creates. And I want this show to make me want to care about these characters or their fates. I haven't been given any significant reasons to yet.

Rare to say a show in this era is actually lacking character development...usually it's the story that is. Really need the characters to begin appealing more or the sales of this show will be alarmingly low. It's got most of the other ingredients right. But in modern times, a character cast that isn't properly developed is virtually an instant financial death.

-Sho- · 2011-10-21, 16:20

Hope for a chara development soon. The show isn't entertaining enough.

kuroishinigami · 2011-10-22, 05:00

Well, I like this a lot more than Guilty Crown, but it might be because of my personal taste. The lightning fast pace is actually working for this series since the culprit is very easy to spot(this time I found out the instant I heard that terrorist victim's singing voice) so we're getting to the important point of each case, the motives and conclusion, with a nice timing.

karice67 · 2011-10-22, 06:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Yep - there's a definite dystopian thing playing out that trumps the actual mysteries. This was written in the 40's, when the halcyon days of fascism were still fresh on the minds of the world.

and @Kanon and Last Sinner.

If you want to read up on anything / get an idea about the context Sakaguchi Ango was writing in, I'd suggest reading about early post-war Japan.

The first story (on which the first episode was based) was originally published in 1950, the last story in 1952. (source)

Given what was revealed in this episode about the war, censorship and information manipulation, the following info may or may not be relevant:

The highly controversial Tokyo Trials lasted until 1947, with what seems to have been a lot of cover-ups regarding Hirohito's role in the war. The US occupation of Japan ended in 1952, whilst the Chinese Civil War ended in 1949 with the Communist party in power and the Korean War started in 1950. Censorship in Japan was heavily practiced during those years, especially with regards to the atomic bombings and leftist thought (esp. Communist thought).

There's a heap more that I don't know yet / have forgotten, but hopefully this can start you all off. Give me another week or so and I'll see if I can dig up anything else. I really shouldn't have stepped into this thread before the end of semester!

ookamigirl · 2011-10-22, 13:18

Another very interesting case.
Virtual dolls & that Yonagahime performance were pretty nice.
Inga sure is a mystery. Wonder what's her/his deal with Yuuki.

2011-10-20, 16:36	Link #202
Maceart Doremi-fansubs founder Fansubber Join Date: Mar 2004	People are missing the point of this show. It's not a simple "who did it?" and "gotcha!" type detective anime. The setting clues the viewers in on something much more sinister, such as the "internet protection act" and "idols singing to raise morale during a war." This show screams of being an Orwellian critique on society. Also, the case in episode 2 had no clear winner. Both detectives knew what would happen by showing the culprit of the murder. It's just that the government detective seem to hide more than he knew. __________________ AIR 2005! Kanon 2006! CLANNAD 2007-2008! Planetarian OAV/Movie 2010?

2011-10-20, 16:53	Link #203
felix sleepyhead Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: event horizon	@Maceart Agree on the deeper message being the point. Don't think the "internet protection act" is actually that important as you're making it though, since this is a noitaminA theme more so then a theme for the show. That being said, it's hard to detach from the detective anime stereotype when you follow it to the letter: suspects, clues, fake culprit, motive, confession. __________________

2011-10-20, 19:57	Link #204
ars89 One-Eyed Dragon Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NJ, USA	Like how they uploaded the song at the end. Inga is still awesome. I wonder what the detective meant by he's still searching. Maybe it has to do with the opening scene from the first ep. Didn't know who it was this time until they played the song and the detective figured it out as well. Like how Rinroku keeps fabricating ways to close the cases without the real person getting in trouble. __________________ My Anime List

2011-10-20, 22:46	Link #207
Forsaken_Infinity Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: United States of America Age: 32	I really liked this episode. I agree with Maceart almost wholeheartedly. Even taken at a face value, the mystery this time around was decent (it wasn't quite as blatantly obvious as the one on the first episode but it was still obvious enough for me to call out "man... so obvious QQ" the moment I saw the girl. They almost had me going later in the episode for a second with the other two though. But given the fact that the girl was singing, that her voice was used and that the rest of the idol group were far too old to have been her teammates, and when it was revealed that the girl's mom was the manager of the group - there was just no way to doubt anyone but the girl. At least though, I certainly didn't think that the video itself was faked too (yeah... kinda obvious if you figured out the rest lol, but I suppose I am too kind to assume absolutely everything was faked). In any case, the motive of the criminal was much more personal - and thus, much more real - compared to the one last episode. Regarding the mass upload of the song, I don't think it was done by the MC (Shinjurou doesn't come to me like most names do and Yuuki feels unlike the MC - and well, there's Yukkii from Mirai Nikki etc., so I am just gonna call him the MC) - it was done by that pirate whose discs got confiscated. It was thus not an attempt by the MC to not make the case a complete victory on Rinshoku's part. And in any case, Rinshoku got pretty much all the downloads and uploads interrupted anyway. Now if only those future generations of Vocaloid could be imported in the current day >_> Last edited by Forsaken_Infinity; 2011-10-20 at 22:57.

2011-10-20, 23:07	Link #209
wandering-dreamer reads too much Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: you know that's a great question.....	I was also amused at the similar dates in UN-GO and Guilty Crown, also at how Miku had a two second cameo in the first episode and then vocaloids are mentioned as "ancient technology in this one" Spoiler for episode two musing: I do like how UN-GO is subtly messing around with the standard detective tropes, even if the mysteries still aren't top grade yet. In a lot of detective stories there are two detectives, the protagonist (who is always right) and another detective (a lot of times with the police) who quickly comes to completely the wrong conclusion and has to be proven right by the protagonist. But here it seems like the Chairman actually does solve the case nearly instantaneously (Shinjurou made a comment in episode one about how he knew it before he solved it) yet chooses to create "a beautiful lie" instead of announcing the truth. Combine that with how Shinjurou doesn't seem as concerned if anyone else believes that he's right or not, that the detective's assistant for once is not the audience surrogate character (heck, Inga is by far the strangest part of this series) and it's a nice take on the usual detective story. And a lot of that has to do with the setting as othe's have pointed out, while not as much of a dystopia as say No.6 or Guilty Crown, UN-GO seems to have a very oppressive, authoritarian setting and I'm curious to see if that will play an even larger role in future cases. And I had been wondering if all the uploads/downloads had been interrupted or not, it didn't look so but the Chairman looked pretty smug. Hell, don't these people have USBs they could pass around secretly as well? __________________ If it has a plot I have something to say about it! Twitter time!

2011-10-20, 22:09	Link #206
Kakkou Tch. Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Australia	Second episode was really good, so much better than the first, though Inga (boy ver.) is starting to feel a little more annoying. The setting is shaping up to be fascinating with it's lack of justice and dystopic atmosphere. The final part with the mass uploading of the Yonagahime song was a sweet way to not make the case a complete victory on Rinshoku's part. Makes me wonder how the original novels handled the cases and setting, seeing that they were not futuristic. There wouldn't be any Internet Prohibition Act or the whatnot unlike what Bones has set up. Not quite sure if the whole supernatural aspect surrounding Inga would have been present either but it's interesting if it were.

2011-10-21, 09:23	Link #215
Kirarakim Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007	I thought the 2nd episode was better than the first but I'm still not that impressed. Perhaps I would be more interested in Inga if he/she wasn't dressed in that ridiculous panda outfit that really doesn't work with the tone the show is trying to create. As for a larger picture yes I'm sure, but I can't remember the last time Studio Bones actually delivered a good original ending (in fact the ending is usually where they muck up). If this anime's selling point is a larger picture I am afraid that doesn't fill me with confidence. __________________ Twitter MAL

2011-10-21, 12:04	Link #216
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	Regarding info on the novel, haven't been able to find much. What I did find was the author was heavily versed in Buddhism + Indian philosophy and was a fair political commentator at the time. After Episode 2, I finally feel this show has revealed where it actually wants to go. Episode 1 left it murky and made the whodunnit seem like the main factor, which shouldn't have happened. Episode 2 now makes it clear the idea of a dystopian world full of tyranny like the nightmare worlds of classic novels like Nighteen Eighty Four and Fahrenheit 451 and the perils within that the state enforces to bring about such a world are the primary focus. Rewriting history with lies to make society supposedly better. Fabrication of various forms of media to induce the desired rhetoric and popular opinion within the masses. Heavy censorship to prevent people getting what they want via freedom of choice. They're relevant issues worth exploring. Certainly the best thing going for UN-GO so far is the world setting and the social issues it's confronting. The main issue though is the characters. 2 episodes into a one-season show and we still know next to nothing about them! We know the Professor is a professional liar, that Rie does seem to prefer logic + truth and may rebel if she understands the true scope of the consequences of her father's actions. We know Shinjurou and Inga are two of very few people seeking to bring the truth to the forefront. And that's all...I want to know more about what brought about Shinjurou and Inga pairing up. I want to see Rie get more airtime and get a more active role in the mix. I want to see what made the Professor decide to become dedicated to weaving the lies he creates. And I want this show to make me want to care about these characters or their fates. I haven't been given any significant reasons to yet. Rare to say a show in this era is actually lacking character development...usually it's the story that is. Really need the characters to begin appealing more or the sales of this show will be alarmingly low. It's got most of the other ingredients right. But in modern times, a character cast that isn't properly developed is virtually an instant financial death. __________________

2011-10-21, 16:20	Link #217
-Sho- ~Omedetô~ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Somewhere between heaven and hell !	Hope for a chara development soon. The show isn't entertaining enough.

2011-10-22, 05:00	Link #218
kuroishinigami Ava courtesy of patchy Join Date: Jan 2009	Well, I like this a lot more than Guilty Crown, but it might be because of my personal taste. The lightning fast pace is actually working for this series since the culprit is very easy to spot(this time I found out the instant I heard that terrorist victim's singing voice) so we're getting to the important point of each case, the motives and conclusion, with a nice timing.

2011-10-22, 13:18	Link #220
ookamigirl Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	Another very interesting case. Virtual dolls & that Yonagahime performance were pretty nice. Inga sure is a mystery. Wonder what's her/his deal with Yuuki. __________________ My Blog --> ookami