Psycho-Pass - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

If they die out of a heart attack there will never be an appreciable accumulation of living zombies. If there is a common message I have seen in all this many years of watching anime is that the mass media is controlled by he goverment, so I would not be surprised that the statistics of people going zombie are kept secret as a national security problem.

Well, we know from a few episodes back that the shortening human lifespan is kept a secret.


This is admittedly a weird analogy, but I think that the Sibyl System might be a little bit like Asbestos.

Asbestos took off in a big way during the Industrial Revolution. During the 1900s it was used for all sorts of things. People thought it was great. It had a lot of clear benefits.

But it also had toxic problems. These unfortunately took some time to become obvious. And by the time they became obvious, asbestos was entrenched enough in society that it became hard to dispense with it (even now, in Canada, it is sometimes the topic of political debate).


I think that the Sibyl System is somewhat similar. It has some clear, obvious benefits. But it also causes health problems, both for society and for certain individuals. It's entrenched, and it might be hard to dispense with (or reform).

[Anh_Minh]

Yeah, but if everyone died of "heart attack" before they reached 40, I don't think it could be hidden no matter what.

So, yeah. It's probably a problem. But taking hue beauty treatments isn't a death sentence either.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by creb

You really should go hunting some time (actual hunting, and not some glorified tourist-trap "hunting" safari-style or some other nonsense). It always amazes me how much people like to 'dis things they have no actual experience with.

I've certainly never seen a dick size correlation to it.

I'm taking it Wandering-Dream said something VERY interesting.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yeah, but if everyone died of "heart attack" before they reached 40, I don't think it could be hidden no matter what.

Which probably means not EVERYONE dies of "heart attack" before they reach their 40's. Akane certainly wouldn't have known her grandmother if that was the case. It could just be 5-6% of the population that can't deal with this, and end up expiring early. It'd hardly be universal, but it'd be enough to set back the average life expectancy. And it wouldn't change the fact that people who can compensate for the system are possibly living VERY long lives. It's like conflating life expectancy with high infant mortality. You're not going to get an accurate figure on how long elderly people tend to live if your average is mucked up by childhood deaths. Similarly, a segment of the population dying off in their late 30's doesn't keep the majority of the population from being long lived.


Statistics is a tricky business that requires extensive knowledge of math, impartiality and common sense...being insane pretentious artsy fartsy philosophical serial killers, Makishima and his latent criminal buddies probably aren't remotely inclined to objectively evaluate the figures they're citing. Especially when they have a "SHEEPLE SHEEPLE SHEEPLE!" axe to grind.

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

I'm taking it Wandering-Dream said something VERY interesting.

Killing animals with modern tech for fun, no matter how much you try to sugar coat it is abominable, I have no doubt said people get an adrenaline rush from it, but I can get mine from other hobbies, thank you.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Yeah, but if everyone died of "heart attack" before they reached 40, I don't think it could be hidden no matter what.

Yeah, you can't hide for decades from the public at large a glaring truth.

[Anh_Minh]

And despite what you may have heard, smoking isn't an immediate death sentence either. It shaves a few years off your life expectancy, and increases your chance of cancer, but it pointedly doesn't kill you before you reach 40 very often.

Besides, not everyone smokes, which further dilutes the epidemic.

Again, if everyone croaked before they reached 40, it'd be very noticeable. It'd leave a huge hole in the workforce, and what's left would have to learn to take care of all the orphans that would suddenly exist. Heck, that's 90+% of the leading politicians, dead.

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Which probably means not EVERYONE dies of "heart attack" before they reach their 40's. Akane certainly wouldn't have known her grandmother if that was the case. It could just be 5-6% of the population that can't deal with this, and end up expiring early. It'd hardly be universal, but it'd be enough to set back the average life expectancy. And it wouldn't change the fact that people who can compensate for the system are possibly living VERY long lives. It's like conflating life expectancy with high infant mortality. You're not going to get an accurate figure on how long elderly people tend to live if your average is mucked up by childhood deaths. Similarly, a segment of the population dying off in their late 30's doesn't keep the majority of the population from being long lived.


Statistics is a tricky business that requires extensive knowledge of math, impartiality and common sense...being insane pretentious artsy fartsy philosophical serial killers, Makishima and his latent criminal buddies probably aren't remotely inclined to objectively evaluate the figures they're citing. Especially when they have a "SHEEPLE SHEEPLE SHEEPLE!" axe to grind.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. There are enough that some people have noticed, maybe even started some kind of cover up standard procedure, but there can't be that many. Or possibly, it's not that drastic - maybe it hits retired people (who have motivation problems today) harder than those who have a job, for example. So it wouldn't be at age 40, for most of them.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by ogon_bat

Killing animals with modern tech for fun, no matter how much you try to sugar coat it is abominable, I have no doubt said people get an adrenaline rush from it, but I can get mine from other hobbies, thank you.

You mean you've personally don't like it, therefore it is the objective proof that it is abominable. And therefore everyone who engages in hunting as a sport must be comparable to a sociopathic serial killer (why not add pedophile to this accusation? If we're gonna be throwing around our subjective thoughts willy nilly).


Really. Humans are tool using predators. So we use tools to hunt animals. Predators don't STRICTLY hunt only when they're hungry (keep a domesticated cat well fed, but if you let it out side it's still gonna hunt for fun). So it doesn't really look like there's any kind of natural law that suggests recreational hunting is abnormal.

And really. Considering the scale at which the food industry(A VERY high tech apparatus) slaughters animals to gratify people with more meat than they need nutritionally...signaling out hunters for being abnormal sociopaths seems quite arbitrary.

[Triple_R]

So Roger, you don't think that the falling human life expectancy is something to be concerned about? You don't think it's something to fault the Sibyl system for?

Sure, statistics don't paint the full picture, but obviously there's some real bad news in a falling life expectancy (even if it is due to high infant mortality, that's bad news in its own ways).

Honestly, your arguments make me think of someone making light out of high unemployment figures. No matter how exactly you arrive at those figures, they're still bad news and worrisome indicators.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So Roger, you don't think that the falling human life expectancy is something to be concerned about? You don't think it's something to fault the Sibyl system for?

Sure, statistics don't paint the full picture, but obviously there's some real bad news in a falling life expectancy (even if it is due to high infant mortality, that's bad news in its own ways).

I don't believe I said there wasn't any problems. I DID say that what's happening to some people dying early was comparable to infant mortality lowering average long term life expectancy. Are you implying that I don't think high infant mortality would be a significant problem?


At what age (and from what) people are dying off at is important, because it changes how you should prioritize fixing things. If your average life expectancy is significantly down because of high infant mortality, then throwing medical resources across the entire population isn't the optimal way to help raise it. What you try to do is focus it on infant mortality.


Similarly in the Sybill system, the problem facing them is very different depending on where the early onset death is happening. If this declining life expectancy is across the board, then that suggests the Sybil system is fundamentally broken. If it's only a minority of people who are suffering from this however, it suggests the system needs to improve the way it treats certain segments of the population.

[Ultramarinus]

The interview part was the best scene in the whole series so far for me, he was like a psychotic murderer version of Ray Kurzweil. Excellent arguments there. It's a big shame that he's a psychopath, would make an excellent long-term character without the whole Washizu "I feast on humans to keep young" MO.