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Old 2018-05-30, 19:22   Link #101
Klashikari
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As I said, Kurisu knew it had to do about SERN because Okarin explained about his plight (hence why she knew about his choice to begin with).

This is merely speculation from now on, but if Amadeus is compromised, it is very likely Maho would report such incident to Kurisu, since both are responsible of the project. Therefore, assuming Kurisu knows she would be needed for SERN time machine, if she learns that Amadeus was "conveniently cracked around the time Okarin warned her about all of this mess", she could guess that instead of capturing them, SERN opted to crack Amadeus itself.

The anime used another solution, but as I said, it is contradictory because Kurisu's message doesn't prevent SERN to hack Amadeus, unless Daru and Okarin were about to do something about that, which... is possible if she talked about Amadeus too.
This is a stretch, and a specilation: if SERN used a d-mail to make themselves chasing after Amadeus, it is possible that Daru found it in the Z-program. As such, it could explain how preventing Kurisu's confession could still let them go back to Beta if Okarin and Daru were doing more than simply deleting the first d-mail.

However, this isn't really possible when you think about it, because Kurisu was surprised when Okarin mentioned Amadeus.
Therefore, she never talked about that project to Okarin before. Ergo, it isn't possible for Okarin and Daru to know about the AI, hence, it is unlikely they would have intercepted SERN Dmail.
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Old 2018-05-30, 19:26   Link #102
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In Beta world line, I am surprised that there are not more time traveler walking around in present day, considering the cause of world war 3 is Time machine armed racing.

It likes no one beside Daru and Maho know how to produce the working Time Machine or Time Leap machine in 2036 future.
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Old 2018-05-30, 19:29   Link #103
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As far as I can remember, no one else, because nations never got the complete theory, but only fragments of them in the Beta World Line.

As for the time leap, it is only an invention of the FG lab, because its concept was pretty much done by accident and further improved with Kurisu's own specialty, which is memory transplant stuff.
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Old 2018-05-30, 19:41   Link #104
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Remember, the only reason the PhoneWave (name subject to change) even did what it did is because of the CRT TV which just happened to be directly below it. They invented the thing by complete accident.
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Old 2018-06-01, 21:04   Link #105
Klashikari
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Not exactly that useful, but the Divergence table in the Amadeus' script book looked quite practical, so I gave it a try and translated it in English.
That table has all World Lines that were present in the VN (OG SG, SG0, Hiyoku Renri no Darling, Senkei Kousoku no Phenogram). This gives a more general idea of the attractor fields.
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Old 2018-06-02, 00:24   Link #106
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Thanks for that, Klshikari
.................................................. .......

After reading it,.............

1. It is shown that MWC's Divergence number is the same as V&A...which shouldn't be possible since in 2025, we see Kagari who came to the past still alive and she didn't go through plastic surgery. Shouldn't MWC a completely different world line from others?

2. EDITED ***Removed**

3. In anime version, the original Divergence number shown at the end of ep.8 is 1.097302, if they actually put some thought and logic in it at all, that word line will be the part of PR story line (Divergence number 1.0xxxxxx) not V&A's (Divergence number 1.1xxxxxx)
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Old 2018-06-02, 02:21   Link #107
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MWC and VA being the same diverence is easy. Yuki=Kagari didn't actually die at the rooftop at the start of the war and she restored her original looks sometime later.
And yeah, we've been thinking for a while now that they are going to finish PR first because that's where the D-Rine happened.
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Old 2018-06-02, 02:54   Link #108
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Eh...You're saying that Kagari went through another plastic surgery to get original look...? Isn't that a bit too much?
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Old 2018-06-02, 03:25   Link #109
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No it isn't. Expecting her to look the same when the actual Amane Yuki is around would be a bit too much.
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Old 2018-06-02, 04:34   Link #110
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Daru could just explain it to real Yuki and she will understand. (She's going to know about time travel stuff anyway). And even if she did take another plastic surgery, did she really need to go back to the same original look? Does any characters (beside Suzuha and Leskinen) in V&A story line even know how did she look like originally to do plastic surgery for her? And do it after WW3 happened?

Moreover, even if Yuki=Kagari didn't actually die at the rooftop, Okabe and (dying) Kagari won't be able escape from there together and I doubt Leskinen or anyone around there will be interested in saving Kagari's life after the war broke out.

.........................................

Anyway, it is very unlikely for me that V&A ending and MWC are in the same world line. MWC should be based on the world line that similar to PR...but since the official source say so, I guess Okabe can pull out something.
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Last edited by Marina2; 2018-06-02 at 04:45.
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Old 2018-06-02, 08:04   Link #111
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I forgot to mention this but I double checked the table, and for some reason, Milky-way Crossing divergence is the exact same as the others chapters in the Pandora Box route: 1.129848%. This is something I can't exactly explain, especially since the actual world line graph in the next few pages show MWC with a "世界線変動率不明" which is basically "World Line Divergence Unknown" (in fact, they made a special text box for MWC world line and didn't put it with the other numbers for the graph).
The latter makes more sense since it is impossible for Kagari to be completely normal like that if they are from MWC.

Either they made a mistake in the table or that divergence refers to something else in that scene. 
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Old 2018-06-03, 21:38   Link #112
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Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
I'm not sure I like what that preview implies.

OH wait, yeah Fubuki(or Kaede, I don't remember which is which) being hospitalized still makes sense even if we're not crossing over to V&A route
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Old 2018-06-03, 21:54   Link #113
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Look like they are heading to Pandora Box on V&A route next (as ep. name implied)

Quote:
第9話「永劫回帰のパンドラ」
「α世界線」で紅莉栖と再会し、束の間の逢瀬を果たした岡部。 病院のベッドで目覚めた岡部は、再び「β世界線」へと帰還していた。 すべてはもとに戻ったかのように思われた。だが、岡部が眠っていた間にも、 「アマデウス」の乗っ取りに続き、彼らの身の回りにはいくつかの不穏な事件が起きていた。
Okabe (and Fubuki) woke up on hospital bed. Yeah, they will make Fubuki remember her time in Alpha worldline insted.

Unless I see it wrong, summary also says "Amadeus" is still being takeovered in this word line.

Now, if Kagari is still around with Mayuri next ep. I guess Whitefox can get rid of Yuki=Kagari for good.
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Old 2018-06-03, 22:35   Link #114
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Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
Look like they are heading to Pandora Box on V&A route next (as ep. name implied)
It looks like my prediction is about to come true.

I bet in the anime, the Mad Scientist will be back at the end of PR.

Okabe looks a lot better in the PV. Meeting Kurisu did help him regain his resolve.
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Old 2018-06-04, 02:58   Link #115
Klashikari
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So they pretty much skipped the USSR thing (probably covering later otherwise, it doesn't make any sense), then use the Alpha-Beta switch to connect with Suzuha's desperate attempt to drag Okarin to the time machine.

That's a weird approach, because the rest of the route happens exactly because Okarin interacts too much with Amadeus (complete opposite to what Kurisu told him in ep8), and the funny thing is that stuff woudln't happen that way if Amadeus was still taken over, which is extremely bizarre since they should have been back to Alpha immediately.

Oh well, gotta wait 2 days to see what they are trying to do, since they can just ditch all the interactions with Amadeus and mix other stuff from PR too. In any case, the title of the episode is pretty much Pandora's Box JP title.
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Old 2018-06-04, 04:16   Link #116
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I was expecting something like this back when they showed Fubuki in the alpha worldline. There was no other reason to include her there, after all.
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Old 2018-06-04, 07:38   Link #117
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
That's a weird approach, because the rest of the route happens exactly because Okarin interacts too much with Amadeus (complete opposite to what Kurisu told him in ep8), and the funny thing is that stuff woudln't happen that way if Amadeus was still taken over, which is extremely bizarre since they should have been back to Alpha immediately.

That wouldn't make any sense in the anime continuum. Okabe wouldn't interact too much with Amadeus after Kurisu told him not to do so.
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Old 2018-06-04, 11:12   Link #118
Klashikari
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That's exactly what I said. They just can't adapt Pandora box without heavily altering the interactions in that route. That's why I wouldn't be surprised if they ditch everything else or make some mash up while keeping the more consistent elements of both routes.

They also played safe by not showing any version of Kagari in the preview, so there is that. Ironically, if they manage to hide her completely in episode 9, her status would be a shrodinger cat

Edit: finally done with all divergence shift graph from Amadeu's script. The matrix table was also updated a little bit.
I also checked the faq, and noticed some interesting stuff (there are 20 questions in total, I might translate all of them later):
  • For the 1st question, they suggest players to read A stray sheep route first, indicating how to reach it. They realized a lot of players went through Gehenna's Stigma first, but that was not intentional (They -really- shouldn't have made GS the easiest route to achieve, but heh).
  • For the 7th question, they confirmed the Motorcycle suit woman in The Orbital Eclipse was Judy Reyers.
  • For the 10th question, they confirmed that the mysterious Mail Daru got in Pandora's Box was from Kagari.
  • For the 11th question, they confirmed the future Leskinen didn't try to help his past self regarding the brainwashing techniques. It is more like the past structured itself around the fact Kagari "became" a person of the past and relied on past Leskinen, even though it is something that shouldn't have happened. The scenarist finally added that past Leskinen was rather thrilled to see how he would figure out the brainwashing techniques of his future self.
  • For the 14th question, it is indeed Kagari posing as Yuki who was with Okarin and Fubuki in the SDF van in the USSR worldline .
  • For the 15th question, the scenarist admits that as his first time writing a scenario for S;G, he tried to switch the focus from Okarin to Maho for Twin Automata. That said, he had to make sure that his setup wouldn't be in conflict with the rest of the scenarios. Because of this, there wasn't really any setting regarding Kagari's "family in Iwate". He pretty much says it could be a coincidence or another party deliberately send false information regarding that.
  • For the 19th question, the scenarists confirm the hug between Okarin and Maho didn't have any romantic weight. Rather, they were companions for a very long while, and they had a hunch they will never see each other again, so they were overwhelmed with various feelings at that time and they settled with a hug. They also mentioned that Maho grew in America, so pretty much a mark of affection, not romance.
  • For the last question, they again confirmed MWC world line isn't the same as V&A. There were a lot of world lines between both, that's about it.
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Old 2018-06-06, 11:39   Link #119
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Well, I gave the benefit of doubt for that plot change, but I must say I'm not sure what they are trying to do anymore.

For now, PR, TA and V&A are occuring at the same time, which is really a mess.
-They are trying to make the Amadeus' hack and the WL shift coincidental. It still doesn't make sense why Russia toying with the time machine would lead to SERN having the upper hand.
-Kagari is still "normal", so there isn't any full V&A route yet, even though adapting a route with her as Yuki will require a lot of extra material since we are already past Suzuha's scene in Pandora. The only thing left in V&A is the timeskip, Maho coming back and working with Daru, WW3 occuring, Mayuri and Suzuha failing to go back in time, then the time leap machine.

But at the same time, I don't get the pacing of the series at all: we have 23 episodes, thus 14 left. Yet, we are already in PR, TA is already exposed to a certain degree, and we are almost at the start of V&A too.

So really, they are merging a lot of routes, with a rather fast pacing, yet they aren't even halfway in their episode count. Either they intend using some loop at some point or add a lot of extra stuff for the anime (potentially stuff that is between V&A and MWC). But really, it isn't really reassuring at all.

What concerns me the most here is the causality in general. This episode heavily implies the cause of the Beta=>Alpha shift was a coincidental aftermath of Russia tinkering with the time machine, but that doesn't make sense that it would remotely affect Kurisu's action. That's a really far fetched butterfly effect considering the involved context. This also leaves Amadeus' hack issue to the sidelines.
That and the fact Amadeus still exists in that world line, meaning the whole stuff with Kagari with Kurisu's memories will be rather hard to adapt as result.

My assumption is that they will really use TA to erase Amadeus (or rather, Amadeus realizing Reyers' plans, decide to shut down the project with a D-mail), which in turn lead to the memory implant plan afterwards. But then, the flow of events will require a lot of reworking because of every thing wouldn't match that kind of setup.
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Old 2018-06-06, 13:37   Link #120
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From the anime pov, the world line shift was not because of Russians tinkering with the time machine. It's because DURPA got the hold of Amadeus. Then somehow the world line shift happened. They hinted at something but didn't fully reveal it. SERN isn't European only. The US is a big partner too, you know.

I don't see anything conflicting in the anime, so far. As I said, if they combined the routes, it would be very confusing for VN readers. Anime only viewers have no such problem.
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