[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni Chiru - Ep. 8 Twilight of the golden witch

[ArcticHelm]

I'd ask Ryu, but I doubt I'd get an answer. :< All I know is George hate crosses all realities.

[AuraTwilight]

I think most people was aware we were not getting complete answers but the problem is from the sound of it we are not getting answers to any of the major points ..... maybe we are overreacting and I'll wait until I read episode 8 for giving my opinion.... but for example I don't see how a solution which doesn't give any hint how the outcome could have been avoided if Battler came one year earlier or later could be satisfying... Yes I know we can invoke butterfly effect and just leave it at the slightlest of changes can result in the largest of differences but that does not make for a compelling story

I read Japanese. There are answers to all the questions if you're willing to figure it out for yourself.

[ijriims]

I wonder, if the content of Eva's diary is completely revealed?


And I think, really the goats are a good mockey of us, the readers.

[MeoTwister5]

First summaries for today. This details the metareunion of almost all the characters up to... well... read on.

Spoiler for Summaries.:

MetaReunion
- Beato scatters gold dust all over the party room as Battler thanks everyone for their participation. He readorns the GM cape. Ronove and Virgilia appear and speak with Beato. The seven sisters of purgatory attend to them. They express their thanks for the final game.
- The siestas appear as well. Beato says that this game is not yet completely concluded. Gaap, Zepar and Furfur greet George and Jessica. Maria and Sakutaro play around.
- Dlanor and her attendants thank Battler for the invitation. She shows him the invitation he had for Erika but Dlanor says they cannot find her.
- Lambda warps in saying it's her obligation. He says this is the last time for participants in the game to celebrate. Bern should be here shortly.
- Will and Lion are also invited. Will and Dlanor seem to be previously acquainted. Lion introduces themselves as people from another kakera. Beato and Lion recognize each other (perchance knowing they are the same person). Lion says they were colleagues at the inquisition.
- Battler and Beato have a toast. Maria wants some champagne but Geaorge and Rosa stop her. Ronove gathers everyone to listen.
- Battler thanks everyone for their participation in the game, as he is the game master. He toasts everyone.
- In the drawing room, Ange wakes up with tears and finds herself under a blanket. She wants to go where everyone else is. The door to the hall refuses to open even with a key. She tries to force it open.
- She feels the wind blowing on her hair. The windows are open. She sees what looks like the eyes of a cat. She hears a bell, probably on said cat. It seems tolead her towards the outside through the window. She follows it outside towards the party hall windows. She knocks but no one seems to hear.
- She continues to follow the cat to the mansion grounds. She tries to pet the cat which jumps into the bushes and into a dark window. Ange enters the darkened room. She switches on the light to the dining room...
- BLOOD STAIN! SHE SEES WHAT LOOKS LIKE CORPSES OF HER PARENTS.

MetaReunion
- People are arguing at the party. Likely due to the alcohol. Most of the party goers are already drunk. Nanjo is talking about Van Dyne with Will. Lots of party chitchat that is likely not really important. Lion is quite literally pinching asses. Real characters, meta characters and servants are mixing together.
- Battler asks Shannon for the key to the drawing room to checkon Ange. They knock on the door but no one answers. They unlock and enter. Ange is not inside. Shannon thinks she came out the window. Battler is worried because, as the GM, this is an unexpected event.
- Lambda runs some quizzes in the party. Bern appears at the party and apologizes for being late. Will and Lion aren't amused. Lambda welcomes her. Battler and Beato greet her. Battler tells Beato that Ange disappeared. Lambda asks if this is part of his game.
- Bern acts concerned. Battler asks if it's possible for someone to take her away unknown to her but Beato says it should be impossible.
- BERN WANTS TO CHALLENGE BATTLER AND BEATO. Lambda says Bern has not yet let go of this (?).
- Beato says this challenge for the final game will be tough. They will accept under the condition that she will return Ange. Bern accepts the condition. She and Lambda toast. Lambda will be arbiter of the final match.
- Both sides start preparations. Battler says all he wanted was to reach the truth in his fight with Erika. Bern says she simply wanted to win. Bern asks if they want Erika back to participate, and Battler agrees. They consider her part of this story. They both agree to take no prisoners.
- Battler narrates that taking a hostage was unecessary because he would have agreed to a duel anyway. Bern says she really doesn't care about a piece named Erika. Battler thanks her for this final battle.
- Lanbda asks Zepar and Furfur to close down the party.

MetaWorld
- Players are transported to the metaroom where the game is held. The game is prepared. The scenario is drawn.
- The kakera is presented. They discuss the colored text and it's use for this final game. Bern says this isn't like the previous human versus magic mysteries anymore. She will request an answer from them at the end of the story. Lambda declares that this final game is completely solvable. An answer can be obtained.
- Battler thanks Lambda for allowing this to be a fair game. The players and judge exchange pleasantries and respects. Bern wants to feel the excitement of the struggle once again. Battler says that no matter the outcome,they will become friends.
- Lambda asks Bern to begin the reading. Bern says she prefers the game not having the bias from her POV in reading. Beato says it is her right as GM. Battler agrees to read the story themselves.
- Both sides start their... friendly trash talking. Battler and Beato declare their goal. Bern responds with her own.
- Bern raises her hand as the light fills the room.
- THE FINAL BATTLE OF ROKKENJIMA BEGINS.

Yes indeed my friends.

The Final Battle of Rokkenjima Begins.

If I have time I'll start on it later today. Blog is also updated.

[AuraTwilight]

Battler wants to be friends with Bern? No, fuck her. You tell the bitch to get out.

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Battler wants to be friends with Bern? No, fuck her. You tell the bitch to get out.

He could learn a thing or two from Nanoha. That's how you make friends.

[MeoTwister5]

Bern did just sort of laugh it off with her troll face so, you know, Bern.

[AuraTwilight]

No, seriously, I can't even believe that shit.

"So I kidnapped your sister."
"Cool let's be friends."

....no wait it makes sense now.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

No, seriously, I can't even believe that shit.

"So I kidnapped your sister."
"Cool let's be friends."

....no wait it makes sense now.

Yeah. Ryukishi must be a Nanoha fan.

I'm more concerned about why no one finds it odd that Lion is pinching asses.

[Sherringford]

You know, one thing that I really didn't like is how the entire series was setting itself up perfectly for a Burning Court ending and Ryuukishi decided to go Brazil/Fight Club on us.

[rogerpepitone]

For anybody who's interested, The Burning Court is another mystery novel by John Dickson Carr.

[MeoTwister5]

The Battle of Rokkenjima: First Murder Investigation

The murders have begun. This summarizes the first group of murders and investigations. I have included red and purple text.

Spoiler for Summary:

First Murders

Ange's View
- Ange witnesses 6 bodies in the room covered in blood.
- Bodies are: Rudolph, Kyrie, Hideyoshi, Eva, Genji and Rosa.
- Ange is too overwhelmed to cry. She checks the door which is locked. She unlocks it and checks the hall. She follows the cat outside the room.
- She checks the party hall which is also empty. She follows the cat to the second floor.
- At the second floor she enters a room with a key from the cat and sees blood. Natsuhi's room. The room is messy. She finds Natsuhi and Krauss' bodies.
- She runs to the outside to the rose garden and finds Shannon on the flowers and Jessica on the pathway. Both are dead. She flees to the guesthouse.
- Nanjo is dead in the entrance. Gohda and Kumasawa lie dead in the servant room. Thirteen bodies.

Investigation View
- Battler questions Gohda. In purple, he says the dining room is locked. He adds that the room usually isn't locked. In purple, Kumasawa says she checked the locked room. In purple, Gohda says the room was opened by the master key. In purple, Kumasawa says Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolph, Kyrie, Rosa and Genji are the 6 total blood-stained corpses inside.
- In purple, Krauss says that all the members gathered in the dining room. The others lament the fact of the murders.
- In purple, Shannon says that the child confirmed the sure death of the child's parents. In purple, Kanon says that he and Nanjo confirmed Genji to be dead. In purple Nanjo says he is not mistaken with the autopsy.
- In purple, Maria says that all the victims died instantly.
- In purple Krauss says that all the windows in the dining room were locked and no secret room exists. In purple Battler says that no suspicious people were found inside the dinign room.
- In purple, George says no one was hiding in the dining room. In purple Krauss says that no one could have hidden. Jessica finds this all strange and how would the murderer do this. They theorize that the person had a master key. The servants become suspects. However, anyone could have a key.
- Battler suggests a way to lock without using a master key. In red, Bern says that only game managers could tamper with the lock, otherwise you need a key toopen the locks. You can however lock it from the inside without using a key. Beato asks if some other key can be used.
- In red, Bern says that no other key aside from a master key exists. She adds that there are a total of 5 master keys. 5 servants have one. The servants always keep their keys with them, and you cannot take the keys secretly, only I can do it. Battler and Beato says it would be best to check the keys.
- Natsuhi say in purple that Genji's key was destroyed.
- Narrator summarizes.

Spoiler for Purple Text:

- Gohda: the dining room was locked.
- Kumasawa: the room was checked by me.
- Gohda: the room was opened with the master key.
- Kumasawa: Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolph, Kyrie, Rosa and Genji are the 6 total blood-stained bodies inside.
- Krauss: all the members gathered in the dining room.
- Shannon: the child confirmed the sure death of the child's parents.
- Kanon: he and Nanjo confirmed Genji to be dead.
- Nanjo: I am not mistaken with the autopsy.
- Maria: all the victims died instantly.
- Krauss: all the windows in the dining room were locked and no secret room exists.
- Battler: no suspicious people were found inside the dining room.
- George: no one was hiding in the dining room.
- Krauss: no one could have hidden.
- Natsuhi: Genji's key was destroyed.

Spoiler for Red Text:

- Bern: only game managers could tamper with the lock, otherwise you need a key to open the locks. You can however lock it from the inside without using a key.
- Bern: no other key aside from a master key exists. There are a total of 5 master keys. 5 servants have one. The servants always keep their keys with them, and you cannot take the keys secretly, only they can use it.

Blog has been updated. I decided to start separate the summaries so that each page isn't stupidly long. I also made a separate page for the colored text for quick references.

Also due to the importance of the colored text, tell me if I made mistakes so I can fix them.

Edit - Yeah Klash is right. Corpse =/= body and I misread the noun Bern used. Corrected.

Second and Third Murder Investigation

Spoiler for Summary:

Second Murders

(Ange's experience is not in real time synchronicity with the investigation so some characters may already be alive or dead during the investigation view)

- Everyone else returns to the dining room. Phones do not work. They begin to wonder just what the hell is happening. Eveyrone is being cautious. Krauss and Natsuhi head for her room together, however they take a long time and calls to the room are unanswered.
- The survivors head to the room and find them dead.
- In purple Gohda says madame's room was locked. In purple Shannon says she used the key to open the door. In purple Kanon says they found Krauss and Natsuhi collapsed inside.
- In purple, Battler says Nanjo checked the pulses and both were declared to have died instantly. In purple Nanjo says he confirmed them both dead. I am correct on their instant deaths. In purple Jessica said that all the windows and the door were locked and no secret room exists.
- The servants again suspect that someone with a master key did it.
- In purple, Shannon says that all the servants are always together. In purple, Kanon says that the servants can confirm each other's alibis.
- Battler negins to think about secret rooms. Bern reiterates that everyone has an alibi. Beato says that with an alibi for the servants, opening the lock would be impossible.
- In purple, Maria says that they sealed the room with tape on the outside. In purple Jessica says that until the police arrive, no one can enter or leave. In purple Battler says that they sealed the dining room in the same way.
- In purple, Nanjo says that they sealed the mansion and all the members took shelter in the guest house.
- Battler asks about putting tape on the windows of the mansion. He suggests a ladder reaching up to the third floor windows.
- In red, Bern says the windows are barred with iron bars, so entering and leaving through the windows is impossible. Therefore, the only the front door and back door need to be sealed.
- Battler and Beato ponder how the muderer got in, but they couldn't have locked the doors after since only the servants could lock from the outside. He is willing to suspect a conspiracy of the servants.
- Battler presumes that without Erika (detective authority?) there is no absolute confirmation of the life and death status of the bodies.
- In red Bern says that the criminal of the first evening surely killed 6 people.
- In blue Beato says that the criminal locked themselves from the inside and hid in Natsuhi's room. When everyone left, the criminal checked and escaped.
- In red Bern says that the room was immediately sealed by everyone. The criminal could not have escaped at that moment. The seals of the dining room, Natsuhi's room and the mansion cannot be broken.
- Narrator summarizes.

Spoiler for Red Text:

- Bern: the windows are barred with iron bars, so entering and leaving through the windows is impossible. Therefore, the only the front door and back door need to be sealed.
- Bern: the criminal of the first evening surely killed 6 people.
- Bern: the room was immediately sealed by everyone. The criminal could not have escaped at that moment. The seals of the dining room, Natsuhi's room and the mansion cannot be broken.

Spoiler for Purple Text:

- Gohda: madame's room was locked.
- Shannon: I used the key to open the door.
- Kanon: found Krauss and Natsuhi collapsed inside.
- Battler: Nanjo checked the pulses and both were declared to have died instantly.
- Nanjo: confirmed them both dead. I am correct on their instant deaths.
- Jessica: all the windows and the door were locked and no secret room exists.
- Shannon: all the servants are always together.
- Kanon: the servants can confirm each other's alibis.
- Maria: we sealed the room with tape on the outside.
- Jessica: until the police arrive, no one can enter or leave.
- Battler: we sealed the dining room in the same way.
- Nanjo: we sealed the mansion and all the members took shelter in the guest house.

Spoiler for Blue Text:

- Beato: the criminal locked themselves from the inside and hid in Natsuhi's room. When everyone left, the criminal checked and escaped.

[Klashikari]

Various corrections:
-Kumasawa's purple clearly indicates "blood stained -bodies-". She never mentioned corpses by any means, which will be even notified by Battler and Beato.

-Bern's red state that no one can use the master key except their respective owner. Which means that for instance, no one can use Gohda's key except Gohda himself. She definitely didn't include herself in the lot.

Going to have a read of the rest.

[MeoTwister5]

Fourth Murder Investigation

Spoiler for Summaries:

Fourth Murders

- Shannon went out to the garden and was not found. They later find her in the garden dead.
- In purple Nanjo says he examined the dead body and confirmed that she is dead. In purple Gohda says that they do not all have alibis. Because they were checking the entrances of the guesthouse.
- Jessica in purple says that it is impossible for George to kill Shannon. In reverse in purple, Battler says it is possible for everyone else to kill Shannon except for George. In purple, Gohda says that Shannon's master key was destroyed.
- In red Bern says that Kanon disappeared for all eternity the moment Shannon was killed. He is to be considered killed. Kanon's key is destroyed.
- Beato presumes both were killed at the same time even with no verifiable corpse.

Spoiler for Purple Text:

- Nanjo: examined the dead body and confirmed that she is dead.
- Gohda: they do not all have alibis.
- Jessica: it is impossible for George to kill Shannon.
- Battler: it is possible for everyone else to kill Shannon except for
George.
- Gohda: Shannon's master key was destroyed.

Spoiler for Red Text:

- Bern: Kanon disappeared for all eternity the moment Shannon was killed. He is to be considered killed. Kanon's key is destroyed.

Fifth and Sixth Murder Investigation

Spoiler for Summary:

Fifth and Sixth Murders

- Everyone starts to barricade themselves in the guesthouse. They're all afraid. The family decides to speak with Gohda and Kumasawa in the servant's room. They discover Gohda and Kumasawa all bloody.
- In purple Nanjo says that Kumasawa and Gohda died instantly. In purple Jessica says that Gohda and Kumasawa are dead. In purple Battler says that none of the remaining members have alibis.
- The survivors notice blood everywhere. In purple Jessica says that the 4 family members and Nanjo could not have killed Gohda and Kumasawa. In purple George says that the guesthouse was perfectly checked.
- In purple Battler says that there can be no more master keys because the last two keys are with the two victims who died.
- Narrator summarizes.

Spoiler for Purple Text:

- Nanjo: Kumasawa and Gohda died instantly.
- Jessica: Gohda and Kumasawa are dead.
- Battler: none of the remaining members have alibis.
- Jessica: the 4 family members and Nanjo could not have killed Gohda and Kumasawa.
- George: the guesthouse was perfectly checked.
- Battler: there can be no more master keys because the last two keys are with the two victims who died.

Seventh Murder Investigation

Spoiler for Summary:

- Survivors find Nanjo dead at the guesthouse entrance.
- Jessica in purple says he is dead. George admits he would even know that, in purple, he died instantly.
- In purple Maria says that the door was perfectly set. In purple Jessica says that neither Maria, Battler, George or me could have killed Nanjo.
- In purple George says that it would have been impossible to kill Nanjo in the guesthouse. In purple Battler says that there is no sign that Nanjo left the guesthouse.
- Maria wonders WTF happened to Nanjo.

Spoiler for Purple Text:

- Jessica: he is dead.
- George: he died instantly.
- Maria: the door was perfectly set.
- Jessica: neither Maria, Battler, George or me could have killed Nanjo.
- George: it would have been impossible to kill Nanjo in the guesthouse.
- Battler: there is no sign that Nanjo left the guesthouse.

Blog updated.

[MeoTwister5]

Eighth Murder Investigation

Spoiler for Summary:

- Jessica rages and runs out to the garden. Maria, George and Battler chase her down.
- They find her dead in the pathway near the garden. In purple George said she died instantly. In purple Maria says it is unquestionable that she cannot be alive.
- In purple Battler says it is impossible that George, Battler or Maria could have killed her. In purple Maria says that it is impossible that the 3 of them could have killed Jessica. In purple George says that it is impossible for Maria to kill someone. In purple Maria says that George cannot kill an adult. He can however kill a child.
- Narrator summarizes.

Spoiler for Purple Text:

- George: she died instantly.
- Maria: it is unquestionable that she cannot be alive.
- Battler: it is impossible that George, Battler or Maria could have killed her.
- Maria: it is impossible that the 3 of them could have killed Jessica.
- George: it is impossible for Maria to kill someone.
- Maria: George cannot kill an adult. He can however kill a child.

The murders and Bern's story ends here. The rest of the game will be the final investigation towards a solution. Classes start tomorrow (actually later since it's past midnight) so summaries will come slower.

Time for bed!

[Dormeur]

6 October 1986, Battler and Beato escaped from Rokkenjima by motorboat.
Though many people were killed by accident or murder, Battler didn't seem sad.
And he was found on the road, not shore.
That's strange.
I can't stop considering him as the culprit.

By the way, what happened in the escape scene of the real world ?

Spoiler for size:

With love
- Yasu dived into the sea with an ingot. Battler tried to rescue her. He failed. He was saved by chance.

- Yasu tried dive into the sea with an ingot. Battler tried to stop her. The boat capsized, and he was saved by chance.

- An ingot dropped from the boat. Yasu tried to take it. Yasu falled into the sea. Battler tried to rescue her. He failed, and he was saved by chance.

- Battler and Yasu tried to comitted suicide together for the eternal love. They dived into the sea with an ingot. Only Battler failed, and he was saved by chance.

- Yasu tried to force Battler to commit suicide together on the boat. Battler resisted her. The boat capsized, and Battler was saved by chance.

- Yasu was injured by the explosion or shot. She died on the boat. Battler tried to sink her body, the ingot, his jacket as a funeral. He failed and falled into the sea with them. He was saved by chance.

Without love
- Battler killed Yasu because he got the way to escape from the island. To hide the evidence of the (mass) murder, he threw away Yasu's body with his bloody jacket from the boat. He used the ingot for preventing them surfacing. He went ashore and pretended to lose his memories.

- Battler killed Yasu because he got the way to escape from the island. To hide the evidence of the (mass) murder, he tried to threw away Yasu's body with his bloody jacket from the boat. He used the ingot for preventing them surfacing. He failed to do that and falled into the sea with them. He was saved by chance.

[AuraTwilight]

Battler being the culprit doesn't make the slightest bit of sense and requires ignoring everything the series has ever told us about anything.

[immblueversion]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Battler being the culprit doesn't make the slightest bit of sense and requires ignoring everything the series has ever told us about anything.

Spoiler for EP8:

He was an unwilling accomplice who didn't kill anyone on the island.

[Klashikari]

That was certainly not even mentioned in Episode 8. I have no idea where this spoiler is from, but unless I really missed a giant flag, there wasn't even the slightest indication of this.

And no, Bern's game has really nothing to do with the rest of the games, especially considering the red and purple used in there (and if people do consider as real, well you better define me the "unwillingly" which is unlikely considering his behavior in this version).

[Kit]

I don't know if I'm the only one that feels this way but I gotta say, even though the mystery puzzles were originally the things that I found most alluring about Umineko, I feel much worse about the way Battler ended up than about the actual solutions and answers. More than anything it pains me to find out that he was an accomplice in his parents' plot regardless of whether or not he was willing or unwilling. The fact that he participated in it strikes me as weak and out of character from the stoic and charming character I've come to love over the course of reading the stories.