2011-01-21, 11:43 | Link #21622 | ||
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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And maybe I'm really slow, but Umineko is anything but understandable now. Quote:
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2011-01-21, 12:47 | Link #21623 |
A novice to anime
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nor*Cal, Rokkenjima, Illusionary World
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Sorry for going off topic but this has been on my mind. I thought the explosion was going to be explained by a volcano after seeing that History Channel documentary of how they explained the mircales of God with a volcanic eruption (the river of blood, plages, death of first born son, parting of Red Sea). I think watching that documentary explain the works of God with science reminded me of Anti-Fanasty vs Anti-Mystery of Umineko. Of course now we know it was Kinzo's small bombs or sinkhole or whatever, though I think a volcano would have been cool.
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2011-01-21, 12:59 | Link #21624 |
Ibekusa Makina daisuki!
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Well, if you eliminate the magical aspect and count the ending with Battler as Hachijo Toya recalling his tragic love story then suddenly everything becomes simple, but if you see the story as from ep1-6 and ignore 7 and 8, then that might be a little hard because Ep7 make it clear why Beatrice the Witch loved Battler so much.
If I remember it right, we never really pay attention to the promise in episode 1, remember when George or Jessica joke about how Battler promise to take Shannon away on a white horse, I cannot believe that promise actually has so much influence on the plot. Because I think we all thought that Shannon pretty much loved George, I cannot believe the clue to the answer of Battler's forgotten promise is right there and we might have missed it from the beginning. The clueless Battler thought it was a joke (just like promise between childhood friends to get married when they get older) while Shannon/Yasu took it seriously. Poor girl waiting for 6 years and thought it would be eternity. I might have suspected the Battler and Shannon route from the beginning when the promise was first mentioned, but Ryukishi07 kill that thought by making George propose to Shannon and we all assume before ep7 that Shannon/Yasu only love one person and that person is George not Battler. Big mistake!!! |
2011-01-21, 14:27 | Link #21625 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
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I mean, a lot of things about Rudolf are a little... odd.
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2011-01-21, 16:03 | Link #21626 | |||
The True Culprit
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* He's married to Asumu, therefore he felt he had to. He kept his mouth shut so they didn't murder him. * I like the idea that Rudolf wanted Battler present since all the adults were going to attack for the headship/money. I can see how having Battler there as a potential "neutral" head would be beneficial. This opportunity does not exist in Lion's world. As for how he convinced Battler...Probably brought up meeting his cousins again. An idea I've recently thought of was that Ange's been sick for some time, like say a week with fever or something, thus why Battler was begged and asked. Leaving aside whether her illness is natural or not, it'd explain how "Beatrice" was able to predict that Ange wouldn't be coming. * There's always the idea that Rudolf was contacted by Beatrice for the hypothetical Murder Mystery Game, and he was playing his part of being foreboding and aware of his fate to make things seem magical, or something. * Three times? I can only count two, both of which are Bern's games in the final two episodes. And you know I don't trust those at all.
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2011-01-21, 17:03 | Link #21627 | |
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2011-01-21, 20:38 | Link #21628 | |
Ibekusa Makina daisuki!
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Kyrie is the mastermind, Rudolf has no choice but to follow her wish because he loved her and because he just drop the bombshell about Battler being her real son which could piss her off because she always thought Battler was Asumu's son and she was extremely jealous of her. Since she knows the truth, maybe she kill the others to let her family of 4 become rich.
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About why Rudolf hide Battler's true birth and the motive for the switch: 1. I think one more reason is that Rudolf also really loved Asumu and since she is his official wife he rather hurt Kyrie than her so he does the baby swap. It is only possible if they are both pregnant at the same time, gone to the same hospital at the same time to give birth and they both become unconscious after giving birth or something. But what Kyrie believed as the result was reversed: Asumu'son died while Kyrie's son lived, but Rudolf lied to them both and dispose of the other baby while taking the infant Battler - Kyrie's son to show Asumu. I want to take a guess that Asumu at some point did find out about Rudolf cheating and that her son is ... well not really her biological son but because at least she is the official wife and she did not want to make a fuss since she knows Rudolf loved both her and Kyrie. 2. Or it could be that Asumu is actually an evil witch since she knows that her child dies so she gets pissed off about losing to Kyrie so she tells Rudolf to give her Kyrie's son or else she would tell the family about his cheating and he would be screwed. (But I would rather not think Asumu is such a person). If Rudolf reveal the fact about Battler's birth sooner, Battler might have been able to fulfill his promise to take Yasu away although riding a white horse is just a figure of speech. Why? because he would have no reason to cut ties with the Ushiromiya family since his biological mother is still there, he would just hate his father for forgetting Asumu the mother who raised him all this time. He could have come back in 1981 and even if he forget the promise, Yasu would remind him of that. But they might become happy or they might not depending on whether Genji wants to reveal the truth about Yasu's birth, then the ending would be they either both live or both die (in ep8 one of the ending said they both tried to die but Battler lived on and that is most unfortunate because he is constantly tortured by the lost love similar to Kinzo rambling on and on about Beatrice |
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2011-01-21, 21:19 | Link #21629 | |
The True Culprit
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2011-01-21, 21:54 | Link #21630 | |
Ibekusa Makina daisuki!
Join Date: Feb 2010
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You know I am not so sure about that Beatrice the First is pure Italian, if we believe the portrait is of Beatrice the Second (and or the First) then she is blond hair, too despite being only half Italian blood, then if that logic follow, Beatrice the Second's daughter would have blond hair, too. Clair who had white hair is just a trick Bernkastel comes up with and Clair is not what Yasu really look like unless you assumes she inherit Kinzo's hair.
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About Yasu multiple personality disorder if we assume what Yasu said in Ep7 is true minus the part looking like Shannon or Kanon because she cannot change her appearance, disguising does not make sense imaging that she would have to convince everyone who live in the mansion to believe that Shannon and Yasu are in 2 different human bodies. Don't forget she was pretty young when she starts working in the mansion, then do you think a 9 year-old-kid is clever enough to think 10 years ahead of time how she gonna deceive everyone to carry her vengeance (in the real story, I would like to think that she was used by Kyrie to commit those murder before getting fed up with it and run away with Battler or Battler rescues her and then they jump off the cliff to be together in death but Battler survive) Remind me of Chinese drama in which characters jumping off the cliff don't die. It could be suicide by other means but jumping off the cliff make more sense because Battler survive and lost his memories. There are more than one ending to Ep8 so unless the English patch come out and someone finish the story, these are only speculations. Let's try to look at it from a real life situation instead of a magical standpoint because we got enough of magic since Ep1. Last edited by ngng; 2011-01-21 at 22:13. |
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2011-01-21, 22:45 | Link #21631 | |||
The True Culprit
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We know the Claire appearance is something Yasuda came up with, not Bern, because Asune mentions seeing a figure with white hair and a white dress hanging around in the Special VIP Room. And obviously, it's not Yasuda's natural haircolor, and it's certainly too long away. She uses wigs, we can't ignore this fact. Quote:
Face it, she's not blonde. Quote:
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2011-01-22, 00:42 | Link #21632 |
Ibekusa Makina daisuki!
Join Date: Feb 2010
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Wow, your reasoning makes sense, but let's just wait until someone Ep8 and give the answers. About hair colors, if speaking strictly in the real world, all Asians have black hair until they dye it, but as you know it the Japanese when creating their story tend to make characters having any hair colors but rarely black as their natural hair color, I use a real life situation to reason Yasu having blond hair as an inheritance gene from her mother.
The reason why my view is different from yours is that I want to look at the situation in a way that there is only one path to the story that is ep8. If you use ep8 as the base, then ep1-7 are half fantasy half reality that explains what if situation, but those situation did not apply to the real Battler who was now Hachijo Toya the novelist. So the magic is a sham. Beatrice, Kanon and Shannon is Yasu acting as you said, Yasu might look like Shannon, Ronove is another Genji who acts more openly, Gaap is what Yasu blame for her own negligence, Virgilia is Kumasawa the elder whom she respected and loved and was also her wet nurse. 7 stakes sisters are personification of the maids who bully Yasu in the past so she make them her servants in her imagination when she becomes the witch. Clair takes on the appearance of the ghost and look like the doll in the VIP room set up by Yasu that scare the hell out of Jessica saw in EP7 Even if we say that was Yasu's acting, how come she is allowed to do it and no one found out, what about Jessica, Natsuhi and Krauss, don't they at least check the servant roster before hiring them? or do you think Genji knows but cover for Yasu because he knows she is the true successor? As far as I know Genji give Kanon and Shannon the hint to the solution of the epitaph in Ep7 (assuming that in reality he was talking only to one human Yasu who takes on the appearance of Shannon) I would also like to think that Yasu outside appearance is Shannon, but that Shannon loves George later on so that is why I like to think the real Yasu looks different from Shannon (even though Shannon is supposed to be the ideal servant in Yasu's mind, the Shannon who appear in ep1 is clumsy like the old Yasu). So Shannon is Yasu's disguise to look different from her original "pitiful self" as she quoted when looking at a mirror. Please don't take offense because my view is different, I just want to come up as many theories as possible before Ep8 is translated because that is what this thread about. Thanks for making those arguments because there might be a lot of points that I might have missed. Last edited by ngng; 2011-01-22 at 01:15. |
2011-01-22, 01:28 | Link #21633 | |||||
The True Culprit
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I don't believe that, but it's a valid idea, I guess. I simply think that she just didn't pick up on it. Jessica's trusting to a fault and takes things at face value to the point that lots of fans think she's stupid.
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2011-01-22, 02:18 | Link #21634 |
Ibekusa Makina daisuki!
Join Date: Feb 2010
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She asks Shannon to be her boyfriend? I support that idea. I think you just solve another complicated problem. The evidence is Kanon was invited to pretend to be her boyfriend during the cultural festival, but contrary to what has been told, that Kanon has the body of a boy and she was really Shannon in appearance.
Yasu is somewhat at fault for playing with the hearts of her 3 cousin though I don't blame her for that because she was lonely and only those three at almost around her age and they did not treat her like a servant so developing feelings for all 3 of them create a conflict inside her mind. This is just like what happen when you like more than one person, you need to constantly argue inside your head like "Who do I love the most? Who do I want to be with for life?" She could not decide on only one person when Battler come back in 1986 that is why Ep7 explains that she let the epitaph decide their fates for her. The love for Battler was given to Beatrice the Witch (who takes on the appearance of her mother and grandmother) but in reality Yasu the human ultimately chose Battler (in one ending, Battler was recalling the past events in Ep8 and I think he told Ange that they commit suicide but Yasu died while he lives) Last edited by ngng; 2011-01-22 at 02:33. |
2011-01-22, 02:24 | Link #21635 |
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Where you're not.
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Let's see if I'm not mistaken:
Yasu!Shannon loved Battler first. After Battler left the family, Yasu!Beato was left in charge of feeling the heartbreak while Yasu!Shannon turned to George. Yasu!Kanon also fell for Jessica. So if I'm not mistaken, Yasu loves all three of them, but Battler's the whole reason behind why he/she loves them. Yasu's also their auntcle.
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2011-01-22, 02:51 | Link #21636 | |
Ibekusa Makina daisuki!
Join Date: Feb 2010
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2011-01-22, 03:10 | Link #21638 | |
Ibekusa Makina daisuki!
Join Date: Feb 2010
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