[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 4 Alliance of the golden witch

[Jan-Poo]

Actually you missed an important stroke on that "Beatrice". However you could consider "che" as one syllable.

That apart I think I've pointed out how in roman based writing there is a very high number of 6 letters long words. So it isn't hard to find 6 everywhere.

However the six on Rokkenjima surely doesn't seem to be coincidential. Still Battler said that you can't find this island on an atlas, so even in that fictional world Rokkenjima is not something you can find on official documents. Therefore I doubt Eva is looking for a map of Rokkenjima. Also the first thing she though concerning the "village" was an area of dense population. That would never cross her mind if she was looking at a map of Rokkenjima.

A few weeks ago someone speculated if there are actually 6 "houses" on Rokkenjima. Kuwadorian, the Mansion, The Guesthouse, The Chapel, Those would make 4. Then someone wondered if there was some sort of "house" at the dock. Well according to the anime there is one. And we can imagine there is one at the "back". But this seems quite a far-fetched theory imho. Especially considering how the guesthouse was build in 1984.

[yuugi99]

battler is actually amakuza

07151129

battler = 0+7+1+5 = 1+1+2+9 = 13 = AMAKUSA

Mystery solved!!!

[vandakiara]

13 is read as amakusa? O_o I don't know much about japanese but isn't 13 read as juusan?

[Christen]

Amakusa Juuza. The Juuza part is written as 十三.

[maximilianjenus]

Originally Posted by Marion

11 is November. 10 is October XD;

that's why I said might, whoever tought of that number might have been in the same drugs I was when I typed that theory .

IIRC, Eva used the atlas to VERIFY something, it might have been the location or the spelling of a specific part of the world. this goes along with the rio de la plata - beatrice portrait theory, since it still is a word play.

[izmosmolnar]

I've read an interesting theory on /jp/ the other day actually. As I don't speak anything written in japanese (sorry couldn't be arsed to learn a fourth foreign language), I haven't got a clue how credible is, but take a look anyway. However no one really disproved it, nor argued it with it afaik.

Spoiler for dunno how credible crazy theory is:

It all began from a theory I saw with ベアトリーチェ's name. So we all know Kinzo got pissed at Rosa for naming her daughter Maria (真里亞). Why would he? It's a clue. If you look at the similarities between the two girl's names, they both have "ri", though one is in kanji. However, that kanji can mean village.
This theory also takes into account Kinzo giving his children western names written in kanji. In fact, it's a major clue. From this, I guessed that maybe he had written Beato's name in kanji too, for the sake of the riddle. So ベアトリーチェ would be, for now, changed to ベアト里ーチェ. Notice how the ー kinds of look like a river, leading to 里 if you follow it downstream, right-to-left.
You then have the next line of the epitaph, "In the village, look for the shore the two will tell you of." In this case, we'd consider "the two" to be the " in the beginning of Beato's name. And that's when I branched off on my theory.

To do this, I kanjied all of Beato's name. First, the "ベ" can be kanjied to 辺, which can mean shore. So we have "ato" and "chie" left to use out of her name.
"Ato" can be kanjied as 後, which roughly means behind/after. Then I was left with "chie". It stumped me for a bit so I tried to change "chi" while ignoring the "e". I ended up with ベアトリーチェ looking like this: 辺後里 ー家え.

It then occurred to me that 家え can mean a whole bunch of things, including family/household. At that point I nearly had a heart attack. So I went to look at how Ushiromiya is written.

I remind you that as of now, Beato's name is something like "shore - after - village - family". I believe that the shore line in the epitaph was a clue towards changing Beato's name into kanji. So if we strike out what we've already used, we're left with "after family". Now, let's take a look at the Ushiromiya name. It's written 右代宮. And if we look at the end of the name, we have the kanji 宮, which can roughly be read as shrine. Seeing how everything fell together so nicely, I believe that the gold is hidden somewhere near the shrine, which by the way is off-shore.

Discuss the shit out of this, it's the only way we'll know if it's plausible. There was already some discussion this morning, mainly about how names do not work that way, but I believe that if Kinzo was to design an elaborate riddle that left people stumped for years, it's not unlikely at all that he ignored name etiquette.

I wonder whether swapping writing systems is the way to resolve the epitaph, I think that's not the first theory I've seen with a similar approach, but for a illiterate like me, it seems alright theory.

[Alaya]

It sounds alright, but it doesn't consider the ten twilights in the epitaph yet. Another thing is that we don't know if he/she really convert Katakana to Kanji correctly or not.


Assuming the conversion is correct.
Looking at Kanji from Beatrice name, it has six letters. From that six letters, can we manipulate them according to the twilights in the epitaph?

[vandakiara]

Originally Posted by izmosmolnar

I've read an interesting theory on /jp/ the other day actually. As I don't speak anything written in japanese (sorry couldn't be arsed to learn a fourth foreign language), I haven't got a clue how credible is, but take a look anyway. However no one really disproved it, nor argued it with it afaik.
I wonder whether swapping writing systems is the way to resolve the epitaph, I think that's not the first theory I've seen with a similar approach, but for a illiterate like me, it seems alright theory.

I don't know much about jap either but it seems good... one thing though... why would eva need to look at an atlas for that?

[izmosmolnar]

Don't ask me either, as I said it's not my theory.
A wild guess, but maybe because she checked a detailed map about Rokkenjima island where is a suitable place for hiding all that stuff nearby the shrine's location. I honestly don't know.

[vandakiara]

Hmmm is there such a thing as a detailed map of Rokkenjima? is it ever mentioned? O_o

[Kitsu]

I don't know if there was a detailed map, but near the shrine is fitting. If you remember the second game in which Beatrice tells of that she bound because of the mirror inside the shrine or so. And that she has a connecetion to the shrine

[izmosmolnar]

As I said I'm just shooting in the dark.
But I'm sure there is. Krauss probably had to make one if we can believe him, provided he indeed searched the whole island with professionals.
I think I remember someone mentioning maps about Rokkenjima inside the story, but I don't remember where and in which context it was, but I'm about 60% sure it was mentioned once. Of course we don't know how greatly detailed it is, but we don't even know much about the island either, so that's not so strange.

Edit: anyway if you think about it: She checked an atlas about somewhere, then a bit later she finds the hidden gold ON ROKKENJIMA. Why would she check an atlas about somewhere else besides the island? I'm fairly sure whatever map she was checking, was definitely about Rokkenjima.

[MeoTwister5]

Isn't the shrine technically outside of Rokkenjima? It's on a rocky bed on its own in the sea and since you need a boat to get there you can't exactly leave the isolated island to go there.

[Kitsu]

Well Shannon managed to get there in a storm and just to break a mirror

[izmosmolnar]

Well you can see in the anime actually how close the shrine is to the island. Here is a bigger picture for your convenience. I reckon the shrine is on the small rock on the bottom of the picture, about a few feet away from the island. Before the anime, I also thought it's probably somewhere a lot farther, but apparently not.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Kitsu

Well Shannon managed to get there in a storm and just to break a mirror

I don't think so. The flashback to her breaking it apparently occurred before the family meeting of 1986. From what I could tell, Beato talked her into it during a previous family meeting, probably 1985 as Battler apparently wasn't there. Plus the scene wasn't even described to be during a storm, so she could have easily broken it prior to to 1986.

In fact, because the apparent happiness occurred after she broke it, it is more likely that her Okinawa trip ahppened after she broke it, which shows she broke it well before October 1986.

[izmosmolnar]

Well IMO Shannon could swim that distance even in a storm to be honest..
But anyway I never said that the gold is hidden on the rock where the shrine is. However according to that above theory (which I still don't know how credible is, I'd appreciate some Japanese-familiar persons, if they could point out whether it's true or not), the hidden gold might be somewhere close to that rock somewhere. And according to episode1, we know that the dock isn't very far from the Mansion.

[Kitsu]

I just said it would add to that theory since Beatrice once stated a connection to that shrine. If the gold was hidden in that shrine, it would be way to predictable and the siblings would have found it.
Swimming? Lol
But wasn't that during a storm? ... I remember something about thunder or so and the sea at night is still very dangerous. Swimming during night is very dangerous...sailing at night as well.

About that storm thing. I checked the manga and it was storming I'll look into the game now.

Why did she break the mirror anyway? it's not like Beatrice could have told her to do so in reality

[MeoTwister5]

Game. Set. Match,

Finally finished Episode 4 this night of July 2, 2009. Will finish the final two tea parties tomorrow.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by izmosmolnar

I've read an interesting theory on /jp/ the other day actually. As I don't speak anything written in japanese (sorry couldn't be arsed to learn a fourth foreign language), I haven't got a clue how credible is, but take a look anyway. However no one really disproved it, nor argued it with it afaik.
I wonder whether swapping writing systems is the way to resolve the epitaph, I think that's not the first theory I've seen with a similar approach, but for a illiterate like me, it seems alright theory.

Uhm If you want my opinion I don't think this guy is very proficient with japanese.
This Kanji 辺 doesn't really mean "shore" but border, boundary, vicinity. More importantly usually it is read "be" at the end of words not at the start. The kanji used in the epitaph is 岸. I also do no think that line would be perceived as a river by a japanese seeing as how the Kanji for river is basically three lines: 川
Well I can't be 100% sure about this.
The main problem with this theory is that it doesn't match at all the step Eva took to solve the epitaph. There's no need to find an atlas, there's no connection with the ocean, and more importantly the key is supposed to lie on the shore. And the key should be something that doesn't have 6 characters but can be transformed in such way. The op completely forgot to solve the last, and more important, stuff.

Originally Posted by izmosmolnar

Well IMO Shannon could swim that distance even in a storm to be honest..
But anyway I never said that the gold is hidden on the rock where the shrine is. However according to that above theory (which I still don't know how credible is, I'd appreciate some Japanese-familiar persons, if they could point out whether it's true or not), the hidden gold might be somewhere close to that rock somewhere. And according to episode1, we know that the dock isn't very far from the Mansion.

In the VN it is written that Shannon reached the Shrine using a small boat. Swimming among those riffs is probably not a good idea.