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Old 2015-12-04, 03:56   Link #21
LazyHunter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heir of the Void View Post
Yeah, but that seems very general by second gen standards; Prometheus, for example, was only practical in very mountainous terrain because the mobility advantages there outweigh its abysmal uptime. Bright Hopper would only have been useful on battlefields that allowed a clear approach and with ground hard enough for the insane ground pressure exerted by it's feet to propel it more than dig holes.

Then there are the really specialized ones built around a single gimmick; ECM-11 or collective farming. Gatling-33 just seems... reasonable.
Not all 2nd gens are so focused in one gimmick they become totally impractical for other roles, as long as they are specialized in one area over others they are considered 2nd gens. For example, Indigo Plasma, Break Carrier and Catapult Cargo have reasonable gimmicks too, and they are still dangerous Objects without using them unlike something like the Broad Sky Saber or the Early States.

Rush is focused on close-range anti-Object combat with a small support gimmick for land-combat only, that's enough for it to be bumped to 2nd gen. I agree with you that it is one of the tamer and more balanced 2nd gens, though.
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Old 2015-12-04, 16:13   Link #22
Heir of the Void
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Originally Posted by LazyHunter View Post
Not all 2nd gens are so focused in one gimmick they become totally impractical for other roles, as long as they are specialized in one area over others they are considered 2nd gens. For example, Indigo Plasma, Break Carrier and Catapult Cargo have reasonable gimmicks too, and they are still dangerous Objects without using them unlike something like the Broad Sky Saber or the Early States.

Rush is focused on close-range anti-Object combat with a small support gimmick for land-combat only, that's enough for it to be bumped to 2nd gen. I agree with you that it is one of the tamer and more balanced 2nd gens, though.
That's kind of the problem with a generation system, especially one with single qualifiers; for example, there is very little consensus on what qualifies something as a Fifth-Generation Fighter, though inherent ground-up stealth capability and networked combat capability are usually accepted as requirements.

However, if one were do develop a fighter that used the same bleeding-edge tech but eschewed stealth as anything beyond an ECM force multiplier and instead depended on active protection and point defense to survive enemy anti-air (and yes, this is totatlly something the math says you could do, and might be a better bet than pure stealth in the medium-term), you'd have even more uncertainly on the subject.

Really, the fact that the generation gap here is devoid of any technological distinctions (say, if a gen-2 was required to used a magnetohydrodynamic generator rather than a turbine system with its fusion reactor) makes the whole thing a rather silly distinction.

Off the top of my head, the only fully-consistent fictional generation system I can think of is the one for TSFs in Muv Luv Alternative/Unlimited, though the sheer simplicy helps; it's basically

Gen-1: The Phantom

Gen-2: What We Learned From The Phantom, a.k.a. every other model

Gen-3: The Raptor. Accept no substitutes (though we probably should have ordered the YF-23 also; it was so different that they really weren't competing systems. It probably would have been perfect for the Marines if they were allowed to have shiny, expensive toys, but that's getting a bit off topic).

In any case, the A-10 is far to terrifying for mere generation classification.

+++

Though why is it that the Baby Magnum can float while the Gatling-33 can't? The appear of an air-cushion hovercraft is that it can move directly between solid and liquid surfaces. Baby Magnum's floats would have to displace a quarter-million cubic feet of water hold it up via buoyancy; it seems like it would be easier to give Rush modular auxiliary boosters to maintain its burst ability than to attach floats...
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Old 2015-12-04, 17:47   Link #23
LazyHunter
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I agree that it might have been better if Kamachi had done clearer generation classifications. As I see it 1st gens are the old designs from when Objects had to fight everywhere and be capable of handling any threat/situation. The 1st gens that are still being fielded like the Baby Magnum are probably the last ones that were made before people stopped trying to fight Objects with anything but another Object and the designers started focusing on how to make their Objects superior to others.

I don't know much about Muv-Luv, I only watched the Total Eclipse anime because I was bored and a friend was nagging me about watching it. I liked the BETA's designs, though. It does seem like it has a clearer generation division.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heir of the Void View Post
Though why is it that the Baby Magnum can float while the Gatling-33 can't? The appear of an air-cushion hovercraft is that it can move directly between solid and liquid surfaces. Baby Magnum's floats would have to displace a quarter-million cubic feet of water hold it up via buoyancy; it seems like it would be easier to give Rush modular auxiliary boosters to maintain its burst ability than to attach floats...
The Rush/Gatling 033 can float in water with its air cushion without having to stop to get naval floats like the Baby Magnum does. It's just that its tread gimmick won't work in water for obvious reasons, so it doesn't get those short bursts of speed and moves like a normal Object in naval battles.

I just realized this discussion doesn't really fit this thread. If you want to continue talking about Objects it's probably better if we move it to the Mech/Tech thread, though the LN thread might be better if you don't wanna have to use spoiler tags for all the LN stuff.

Last edited by LazyHunter; 2015-12-04 at 18:47.
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Old 2015-12-11, 05:39   Link #24
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Preview for episode 10. I had forgotten about that scene with Froleytia in the mess hall. At least her fans will be happy, I guess. It looks like it'll reach the amphibious assault. The middle of the chapter in the novels is the Break Carrier attack on the base zone, that would be a good cliffhanger point to end the episode in. If they can reach it, of course, since they have to explain the situation with the Mass Driver Conglomerate.

Last edited by LazyHunter; 2015-12-11 at 08:07.
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Old 2015-12-11, 10:03   Link #25
Chaos2Frozen
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Would this be two parts or three parts?
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Old 2015-12-11, 10:08   Link #26
Kenju of the Right
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well assuming they want to finish up the first cour with the 2nd vol, 2 parts?
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TAMNI New Testament: Volume 14 Complete
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Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei: Volume 12 Chapter 12
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Old 2015-12-11, 10:14   Link #27
hinotori
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3 Parts, actually.

Spoiler for Pic.:
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Old 2015-12-11, 11:24   Link #28
Chaos2Frozen
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Hmmm 10, 11, 12... I'll imagine 13,14,15 for the third chapter and then change to OP2.

I Guess this would end in volume 3.
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Old 2015-12-11, 11:40   Link #29
Dragon_Slayer_X
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I don't think part 3 will need 3 episodes, it can be done in 2. Volume 3 and 4 may get 5 episodes each. It maybe a bit rushed but not impossible.
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Old 2016-01-08, 11:35   Link #30
Chaos2Frozen
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The badass new OP2 for the anime is out, pretty sure this confirms up to Vol 4.
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Old 2016-01-08, 12:31   Link #31
kidstandout
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
The badass new OP2 for the anime is out, pretty sure this confirms up to Vol 4.
that's a shame, wanted to start reading from 4 but i guess i'll start with 5 after the anime. hopefully this means v3+4 are light in content.
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Old 2016-01-08, 12:38   Link #32
Chaos2Frozen
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That surprisingly badass looking [JULIET] system... Those combat maids....

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Old 2016-01-08, 12:41   Link #33
kidstandout
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That surprisingly badass looking [JULIET] system... Those combat maids....

the OP's for this series are just the right amount of upbeat for my liking!
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Old 2016-01-08, 13:28   Link #34
belatkuro
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Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
The badass new OP2 for the anime is out, pretty sure this confirms up to Vol 4.
Pretty sure it's just up to volume 3. Most of the content of the new OP are the ones in volume 3. And I never saw anything that pertains to volume 4.
Spoiler for vol3:
Those are enough for the rest of the cour.
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Old 2016-01-08, 14:05   Link #35
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by belatkuro View Post
Pretty sure it's just up to volume 3. Most of the content of the new OP are the ones in volume 3. And I never saw anything that pertains to volume 4.
Spoiler for vol3:
Those are enough for the rest of the cour.
Oh I see, I thought the

Spoiler:


were in vol 4.
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Old 2016-01-08, 14:11   Link #36
kidstandout
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Originally Posted by belatkuro View Post
Pretty sure it's just up to volume 3. Most of the content of the new OP are the ones in volume 3. And I never saw anything that pertains to volume 4.
Spoiler for vol3:
Those are enough for the rest of the cour.
sweet . with the current pacing 3 novels is better than 4. v4 seems like a better pick up point for anime viewers than 5
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Old 2016-01-08, 19:38   Link #37
Ab buster
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I'm looking forward to the battle against the traitor and I sincerely hope JC shows the diamonds shattering where they hit the metal and piercing only the non-metal areas of the powered suit.

But even more, I'm looking forward to Sladder. I like the guy.

And I DEFINITELY like that they aren't actively cutting out everyone who isn't one of the five main characters on base any more. The mission in the Arctic looked ridiculous with everyone else cut out.

Cookman, Myonri, and Westy appear in the OP! I liked these guys too.

Last edited by Ab buster; 2016-01-08 at 21:50.
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Old 2016-01-15, 01:48   Link #38
Chaos2Frozen
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Is Amazon City a 2 parter or 3 parter?
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Old 2016-01-15, 05:10   Link #39
LazyHunter
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Is Amazon City a 2 parter or 3 parter?
I don't know. The preview pics for episode 14 show Sladder and that's basically the end of the novel. After he shows ups there's only 1 part of Chapter 3 and the epilogue left. Maybe they added a scene with him before or they managed to strecth those two to fill an entire episode.
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Old 2016-01-15, 11:22   Link #40
Chaos2Frozen
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Looks like this is a 2-parter.
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