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View Poll Results: To Aru Majutsu no Index III - Episode 12 Rating
Perfect 10 2 15.38%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 3 23.08%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 3 23.08%
7 out of 10 : Good 4 30.77%
6 out of 10 : Average 0 0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 1 7.69%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2018-12-26, 00:01   Link #21
erneiz_hyde
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Join Date: Sep 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
But can she be a worf when fighting against overpowered characters and getting destroyed by them is kind of the basis for the entire series? Quite literally every character gets an ass beating handed to them at some point for a prolonged amount of time (kind of the reason for a lot of memes within the fanbase about certain characters exist), everyone gets their due in this series (heck, after losing to Touma, Accelerator got shot in the head and crippled and then got owned by a Kihara all back to back).
Suddenly I'm seeing Kanzaki is Piccolo and Accel is Vegeta.
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Old 2018-12-26, 01:31   Link #22
Magewolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
But can she be a worf when fighting against overpowered characters and getting destroyed by them is kind of the basis for the entire series? Quite literally every character gets an ass beating handed to them at some point for a prolonged amount of time (kind of the reason for a lot of memes within the fanbase about certain characters exist), everyone gets their due in this series (heck, after losing to Touma, Accelerator got shot in the head and crippled and then got owned by a Kihara all back to back).

Just because she is losing right now to opponents that have power sets that easily trump her does not mean she is jobbing, she is just realistically losing to a clearly superior foe. Angel Fall arc let us know that a Saint on the level of Kanzaki can't defeat an Angel like being an so far the only time we have seen that she has lost is against goes with that exact same capability.

If Kamachi wanted a true Worf character he would have had Acqua be the one to lose to Knight Leader to set an example since we already knew that he was stronger than Kanzaki and that she could not stop an angel like foe.

A character CAN lose multiple times without the need to be classified as a certain trope.
You basically just described what a Worf is. A supposedly strong character that exists to get their ass's handed to them to make someone else look better when they take out the big bad of the week.
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Old 2018-12-26, 01:33   Link #23
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
But can she be a worf when fighting against overpowered characters and getting destroyed by them is kind of the basis for the entire series?
No, the basis of the entire series is overcoming those odds in the end.

Quote:
Quite literally every character gets an ass beating handed to them at some point for a prolonged amount of time (kind of the reason for a lot of memes within the fanbase about certain characters exist), everyone gets their due in this series (heck, after losing to Touma, Accelerator got shot in the head and crippled and then got owned by a Kihara all back to back).

Just because she is losing right now to opponents that have power sets that easily trump her does not mean she is jobbing, she is just realistically losing to a clearly superior foe.
Yes, that's exactly what a Worf does.
Quote:
Angel Fall arc let us know that a Saint on the level of Kanzaki can't defeat an Angel like being an so far the only time we have seen that she has lost is against goes with that exact same capability.

If Kamachi wanted a true Worf character he would have had Acqua be the one to lose to Knight Leader to set an example since we already knew that he was stronger than Kanzaki and that she could not stop an angel like foe.

A character CAN lose multiple times without the need to be classified as a certain trope.
Acqua wouldn't be a good Worf because:
- he's already wounded,
- we don't know him enough.

What sets Kanzaki apart is that:
- she's a Saint, and we're beat over the head with the fact that Saint are much stronger than normal magicians. Though at this point it's a bit of an informed attribute...
- She loses repeatedly, not just occasionally.
- She does so precisely to demonstrate the power of her opponents. It's because she loses we conclude they are overpowered.
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Old 2018-12-26, 05:24   Link #24
Chosen_Hero
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magewolf View Post
You basically just described what a Worf is. A supposedly strong character that exists to get their ass's handed to them to make someone else look better when they take out the big bad of the week.
She isn't there to make Knight Leader look better, what does that job is the scene where it is stated that whoever is wielding Curtana Original will have powers equal to the angel Michael and those that follow that person will have the powers of an angel. Just because she is losing does not mean she is being worfed, she is just a character that lost to an enemy we already knew was going to easily defeat her (of course that is if you've been paying attention).

Go watch that scene again, Knight Leader had NOTHING to prove power level wise, neither did the episode frame it like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
No, the basis of the entire series is overcoming those odds in the end.


Yes, that's exactly what a Worf does.


Acqua wouldn't be a good Worf because:
- he's already wounded,
- we don't know him enough.

What sets Kanzaki apart is that:
- she's a Saint, and we're beat over the head with the fact that Saint are much stronger than normal magicians. Though at this point it's a bit of an informed attribute...
- She loses repeatedly, not just occasionally.
- She does so precisely to demonstrate the power of her opponents. It's because she loses we conclude they are overpowered.
It can't be a worf if there no reason to prove how strong the enemy is. As soon as angels and Michael comparisons were made we already knew how strong they were. Again, she is just a character that lost to an enemy that we knew was going to defeat her, NOT to prove how strong her foe is but to prove how far they are willing to go to follow their ideals.

You clearly didn't pay attention to the scene and how Knight Leader laments having to fight her to follow through with Carissa's plan. Also, notice how the episode is about characters following their resolve, Carissa going through with even killing her sister, Knight Leader defeating Kanzaki and Acqua fighting Knight Leader who is also lamenting having to fight his best friend.

Nothing in the episode tries to convince us of a characters strength through defeating another powerful character, for you to be able to use that trope it has to be done intentionally for for the sake of SHOWING THE NEW CHARACTERS STRENGTH. That was not the point of that scene and by focusing on the tv trope you ignore what was actually being shown. For example, Acqua killing Terra was a better use of that trope since that scene was meant to convey that not only is Acqua more powerful that the other members from God's right seat that were shown up to that point but that he also has a skewed moral code due to his GRS ability. Sure, the anime didn't do a good job at showing it, but that was that scene was created to do.

He would in fact make a great worf, Knight Leader defeating or just making him retreat would let us know how strong and serious Knight Leader is about following Carissa's plan, to the point of almost killing his best friend.

As for Acqua being wounded that not a good excuse when it cones to him, at best it takes him from 300% power to 260% and that is me low balling the power level he is at in this arc, and that is just because it was mentioned.

If you still don't know enough about him then you have not been paying attention to these last two arcs. In just this arc alone we are shown that he was supposed to be a Knight (his empty coat of arms in the palace and that one scene showing the past at the end of the last arc practically spell it out for you),m but chose to be a mercenary and then joined GRS. We also learn that he and Knight Leader were close enough to be friends and that Knight Leader is pissed that he turned down being knighted. We learn that he still cares for his country and is willing to return to protect it and the princess. All of this is in these episodes and the words the characters are saying and I even left out more information we already know on him at this point.

As for Kanzaki:

- We have already been shown that just being a Saint isn't that big of a deal, since they can still be beaten by normal magicians. I mean, just in the last arc Acqua who is probably one of the most powerful Saints lost to a group of normal ghetto magicians who created a spell to kill Saints.

- Actually this is the first rime she outright loses to an opponent. In Angel Fall she is able to hold back Michael, in the last arc even if she was being overpowered she still won alongside the other Amakusa and in the first arc of the series she overpowers Touma to the point he has to talk-no-jutsu her into letting him help. Outside of those she has barely appeared in the series, so saying she loses repeatedly is a bit of a stretch.

- By that train of thought, because Accelerator got owned by a Kihara (after a string of losing to Touma and getting crippled) we would conclude that the dude is overpowered (when all he did was use science to make a device that blocked Accelerators' ability). Like I said above, there needs to be intent to showcase the new characters power level for the trope to properly be used.

Whatever I'll leave at that (I got tired of this), let's just agree to disagree.
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Old 2018-12-26, 07:54   Link #25
Anh_Minh
I disagree with you all.
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero View Post
She isn't there to make Knight Leader look better, what does that job is the scene where it is stated that whoever is wielding Curtana Original will have powers equal to the angel Michael and those that follow that person will have the powers of an angel. Just because she is losing does not mean she is being worfed, she is just a character that lost to an enemy we already knew was going to easily defeat her (of course that is if you've been paying attention).

Go watch that scene again, Knight Leader had NOTHING to prove power level wise, neither did the episode frame it like that.
Since we'd never seen him fight before, he had everything to prove.

And just throwing a few words around didn't prove anything, especially about a guy who's not wielding the McGuffin.
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Old 2018-12-27, 00:13   Link #26
Frontier
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It's kind of amusing that so many female antagonists who Touma has punched out in past seasons are now relatively on the same side as him. Funny how that works out .

Look at Touma traveling so far to punch a princess .

Touma incidentally running into and teaming-up with one of Lessar's compatriots is amusing (especially since they're all responsible for this), and her reactions to Touma being Touma were pretty amusing .

Poor Kanzaki. She does not fair well against the British .

I get Carissa probably thinks she's doing what's best for her country and getting payback on France, but it takes a certain kind of person to be able to hunt down their sister to kill them and seemingly not feel an inch of remorse about it .

Acqua coming in to save Villian was cool. I kind of wish we had more context on what exactly their past relationship was, beyond the brief flashback we had of Knight Leader punching Acqua, but their dynamic definitely gives me the vibe of a lady and her knight (with some unsaid romantic tension) .

Give it up for the dynamic duo of Laura and the Queen. Laura's attempt at hitchhiking was hilarious. I wonder what scared the driver off? Randomly seeing the Queen on the road or was Laura just that unattractive to them ?
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