Game of Thrones

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by jvcscasio

Man, what an awesome episode...

Yeah, definitely trumped the last one in my book. Great way to finish off the season.

[GDB]

I can't really think of any loose ends that weren't tied up in this episode. Not counting "what will happen next" sort of things, at least. But it tied up who's been torturing Theon, Jaime returning to King's Landing, and various other odds and ends.

[james0246]

While not a very plot-centric episode (really, the plot went next to nowhere in this hour, with only the final moment with Stanis actually feeling like a season ender, everything else just kind of went on hold), there were quite a few very good singular moments (Tyrion and Sansa and later Tyrion and Tywin; Sam and Bran (in what was one of the best Bran or Sam moments in the series); Jon and Ygritte (god their relationship is so much more interesting than in the novels); and finally Shae and Varys (Shae is one of the best adaptations in the entire series, if only because she is given an actual personality and a story arc, unlike in the books were she is nothing more than a set piece for Tyrion to talk about). There was also a very strong connecting theme concerning choices (and their results) and the weight of one life against the multitudes/self, all of which tied the episode together quite well, even if I do not feel such themes are actually present throughout the season.

Stand out performances for the season go to Lena Headey as Cersei, Natalie Dormer as Margaery, Charles Dance as Tywin, Liam Cunningham as Davos, Emilia Clarke as Dany, and Rose Leslie as Ygritte. There were a multitude of great scenes featuring these actors/characters, often times some of the best scenes in any given episode.

Of the Starks, only Sophie Turner as Sansa, Kit Harington as Jon and Michelle Fairley as Cat had any real impact or dramatic weight. The various other Starks, while fun, didn't do enough to be of any real consequence to anything going on and the various actors certainly gave it their all, but there was little for them to do. The same is mostly true of Peter Dinklage's Tyrion who, while having a plethora of great moments (especially his wedding), felt peripheral to almost everything (it's a case of great acting for a bit part).

Overall, damn fine season, significantly better than the last (even if I liked last seasons season finale better).

As for next season, I am perplexed as to what will really be shown.

Spoiler for Hints concerning next season and the end of Book 3.:

On average, about 2/3rds of the various characters stories have been told. The stories of Dany, Stannis, Bran, Arya and quite a few others are almost complete, with really only an episode or so needed to finish off their 'quests' in Book 3. So we are left with the Joffery's wedding (which should take up the first 2 episodes), and a possible confrontation between the Night's Watch and the Wildlings. So, I'm unclear what the middle section of next season will look like. I know what Episode 9 will probably look like, as well as Episode 10, but the middle episodes seem a bit sparse just going by what's left of Book 3 to adapt. Hopefully they will not be putting any of Book 4 or 5 into those loose spaces, but I also do not want significant padding.

Originally Posted by ArchmageXin

Robb from the book is more honorable than Robb the TV boy, because Rob in the book married a girl that belong to a Lannister House. He did it because he bop the girl one night and, well, you broke it, you brought it. He was screwed because of his honor (like Dad).

Completely agree...which is why I claimed Robb was so uninteresting. He is never conflicted in the novels, even when he acts without thinking. That is one of many reasons why I vastly prefer the television version of the character.

Originally Posted by ArchmageXin

As for the Boltons...didn't Roose had a dinner scene with Jamie where he stated the fact he is swinging for the Lannister team soon?

Roose was a glorified messenger in Season 2 (he had two scenes more or less, telling Robb about Winterfell, and badmouthing Robb's hot nurse) and was kept out of the spotlight in Season 3 until Jaime entered Harrenhal. As it is, all of these complaints he mentions this episode, not to mention the supposed advice he gave that was never listened to, never appeared on screen.

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by james0246

Spoiler for Hints concerning next season and the end of Book 3.:

On average, about 2/3rds of the various characters stories have been told. The stories of Dany, Stannis, Bran, Arya and quite a few others are almost complete, with really only an episode or so needed to finish off their 'quests' in Book 3. So we are left with the Joffery's wedding (which should take up the first 2 episodes), and a possible confrontation between the Night's Watch and the Wildlings. So, I'm unclear what the middle section of next season will look like. I know what Episode 9 will probably look like, as well as Episode 10, but the middle episodes seem a bit sparse just going by what's left of Book 3 to adapt. Hopefully they will not be putting any of Book 4 or 5 into those loose spaces, but I also do not want significant padding.

I'm guessing they will be adding stuff from book 4. I don't think this is a spoiler, so I won't put it in a spoiler tag, but because of the 'split' in book 4 and book 5 ( much of it is happening concurrently), I can see them sneaking in some stuff here and there. Also, I always thought it was unlikely that they would use the same structure as the books, they're probably going to show book 4 and 5 concurrently as well. I think ratings would plummet if they went don't go that way.

[GDB]

Plus, there's not really any reason I can think of, as a TV only viewer, to not just start on the next book. If they can split a book once, they can do it again.

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by GDB

Plus, there's not really any reason I can think of, as a TV only viewer, to not just start on the next book. If they can split a book once, they can do it again.

Exactly, instead of 2 seasons for the 3rd book I'm guessing it will be 1.5, and then another 1.5 for the 5th one, if they get that far

[GDB]

Don't see why they wouldn't get that far. It's doing amazingly well, and a recent interview implied that they're already thinking of how to end it under the assumption that the books won't finish by then.

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by GDB

Don't see why they wouldn't get that far. It's doing amazingly well, and a recent interview implied that they're already thinking of how to end it under the assumption that the books won't finish by then.

Well, ( I can't say I personally feel this way), but to a lot of readers (including several people who post on these forums), the third book represents something of a high point in the series, and the 4th.. well something of a low point. I'm no expert but I don't think it takes a lot for them to consider cancelling the show. OTOH, I certainly hope you're right, and we see this thing through to completion. If anyone knows anything more about this, please do share, especially if its reassurances

[james0246]

Originally Posted by oompa loompa

I'm guessing they will be adding stuff from book 4. I don't think this is a spoiler, so I won't put it in a spoiler tag, but because of the 'split' in book 4 and book 5 ( much of it is happening concurrently), I can see them sneaking in some stuff here and there. Also, I always thought it was unlikely that they would use the same structure as the books, they're probably going to show book 4 and 5 concurrently as well. I think ratings would plummet if they went that way.

I always imagined Books 4 and 5 would be combined and split into two seasons. So, the first half of each book would represent Season 5 and the second halves season 6. There are some elements of Book 2 that were left out of Season 2, so I imagine they could be kajiggered into Season 4 (some of them we can most assuredly predict will be part of Season 4). In the end, I'd prefer if Books 4 and 5 were left alone until they are needed...

[TooPurePureBoy]

Next Season will be ruled by Tyrion's story. A great deal of story is left from the third book for Tyrion and Jon and also some Arya.

Spoiler for Book readers only unless you want to be majorly spoiled.:

We have The Dornish showing up in Kings Landing, Joffreys wedding, Tyrions trial, tyrions trial by combat, tyrions imprisonment, Sansa's Escape, Tyrions Escape/detour to Tywins room.

Then for Jon we have the election for new Lord Commander of Nights Watch, the battle against the wildings, stannis showing up, dealing with stannis.

Arya travels with the hound for a bit more and then goes to white harbour and sets off to Braavos

The only character who is really done as far as the third book goes is Dany and she actually does disappear for a good part of the second half of A Storm of Swords anyway.

[Yorae_paladin1]

one of the scene where Joffrey insults tywin calling him a coward who hid under casterly rock i was thinking this little shit wants to mysteriously disappear does he

[jvcscasio]

That scene had me on the edge of my chair...

[Guardian Enzo]

Given how many deviations we've seen from HBO already and the fact that they're dead-certain to move ahead of the source material in a couple of years, I think it's pretty risky to make too many assumptions about how next season will go. I think we're starting to see the Butterfly Effect kick in, and it will do so more and more as we progress. David and David have also said they plan to finish in 7 seasons, which isn't enough material to cover all the books anyway, if they were all written.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Given how many deviations we've seen from HBO already and the fact that they're dead-certain to move ahead of the source material in a couple of years, I think it's pretty risky to make too many assumptions about how next season will go. I think we're starting to see the Butterfly Effect kick in, and it will do so more and more as we progress. David and David have also said they plan to finish in 7 seasons, which isn't enough material to cover all the books anyway, if they were all written.

I doubt there will be any significant departures from the source material until nearer the end. I do expect the producers are creating a game plan based on the idea that the last season will be entirely their own without any significant materials from Martin (beyond the ending which he supposedly already disclosed to the team), but until then I expect we will still get the same basic 85/15 split of source material and new material with new material assisting source material, but never overruling.

So, the books are still the overwhelming guide for the next few seasons (not that I wouldn't mind some decent twists that completely reorient the story, I just find their appearance to be unlikely).

[oompa loompa]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Given how many deviations we've seen from HBO already and the fact that they're dead-certain to move ahead of the source material in a couple of years, I think it's pretty risky to make too many assumptions about how next season will go. I think we're starting to see the Butterfly Effect kick in, and it will do so more and more as we progress. David and David have also said they plan to finish in 7 seasons, which isn't enough material to cover all the books anyway, if they were all written.

I think its going to be less of adding more material and more of cutting out superfluous characters and arcs. Since hes not going to be added now, I can 'spoil' it, but for example Strong Belwas already got cut.

[Guardian Enzo]

I don't want to go into detail here, but it seems to me that there are a few arcs that are already far enough off the book canon that they're likely to look very different over the next couple of seasons, almost inevitably.

[Blaat]

So why is there a g in night?


Regarding the book changes I hope they keep the Jon Snow story mostly intact, that was the only interesting part of book 4 and 5 to me.

[CJ_Walker]

I loved how they took the climax from that Shakespearean play (Titus Andronicus) and weaved that into explain why killing the starks when they were "guests of the house" was bad.

I'm surprised no one caught the Shakespeare reference and tie-in.

[MrTerrorist]

What a great season finale of a theme of hope even in the darkest moments.

Anyway, i got a question. What was that powder stuff that Tywin was spreading and later blow on the letters he wrote?

[Xagzan]

Originally Posted by CJ_Walker

I loved how they took the climax from that Shakespearean play (Titus Andronicus) and weaved that into explain why killing the starks when they were "guests of the house" was bad.

I'm surprised no one caught the Shakespeare reference and tie-in.

Killing guests in your house is a taboo that predates Shakespeare though. Goes back to Dante's time, with him finding Fra Alberigo in his Inferno, and before him the story of Ptolemy and Simon Maccabeus during the Seleucid reign in Judea, and before that the ancient Greeks with Atreus and Thyestes; the concept of guest-friendship was practically a sacred custom, so violating it was an abomination.