Fate/ Series Q&A

[orangejuicetang]

Originally Posted by frenze12

Yea, but isn't there another line that said that servants could not even be hurt by a nuclear blast. So moving at mach 12 should be a walk in the park compared to this.

It think it was stated that nothing physical could hurt them because they were spirits, like sniping them or running them over with a truck would be useless. However, Saber's should be an exception to that rule, since she apparently has a real body and therefore unable to go to a spirit form.

[Flinch]

That only applies to them while they are in spirit form. Then again, the master would probably be taken out from the nuke (I've done enough reports on them, don't question me on this). all you would need is... 2-3 kilotonnes maybe to wipe out Fuyuki and Shinto; well... maybe 7 to play it safe.

[orangejuicetang]

Tch. If Saber really could go mach 12, defeating Gilgamesh should have been no problem in Fate.
Gilgamesh: "Mongrels, bow before me, hahah-"
Shirou (using the command spell): "Saber, charge Gilgamesh as fast as possible from here, lol".
Gilgamesh: "-aha, wait wh-" gets splattered by Mach 12 Saber.

[willyvereb]

And you really think Shirou is competent as a master at all? He's only competent as a Hero of Justice and as a Chef.
And using Invisible Air and such a serious prana burst to propel herself takes much time...it's useless in "close range"(0-200m).
And you know there are hundread times more serious plot holes in the story than that even if she would be capable of that speed without much preparation.

[orangejuicetang]

Takes much time? She reaches that speed in a few seconds or less!

Shirou may not be a competent master, but I'm sure some others should be. That would be such a great master-killing technique.

Anyway, now for an actual question. Would a sequel to Fate/Stay Night even be possible? I mean, both Saber and Archer are extremely popular, and Saber's pretty much the icon of this series. But in the case of a sequel, it would be really difficult to find a justification to bring them back.

[willyvereb]

Exactly. And I doubt Nasu would dare to point out which of the 3 heroines is the actual winner. Saber/Shirou has a relatively large popularity thanks to her popularity(foreign,blonde,fighting girl, "samurai"(more like knight), Servant-Master(SM) relationship) and because every mateiral outside the VN is about Fate, but their relationship is almost impossible.
So the real contenders for cannon pairs are either Rin or Sakura. A continuation for both stories would make sense. Actually BMW somehow did it unofficially with HF, but I think UBW's continuation is more easily imaginable as a VN. Studying in Clock Tower, Luvia as an option for Heroine...

[orangejuicetang]

I don't know about pairings, but popularity wise, both Saber and Rin have extremely large fanbases, placing second and third respectively in a type moon popularity. Some other character rankings of note was Archer at fourth, Sakura at ninth, and Shirou at sixteenth.
The thing is a Fate/Stay night sequel without Saber would be like a Tsukihime sequel (lol, whenever that gets released) without Arcuied.
Actually, when you mentioned studying in Clock Tower, you gave me an a sudden idea. Studying... or researching? If it's a UBW continuation, researching a way to save Saber, (Shirou's line "I couldn't save you") or relieve Archer might somehow bs a reason as to why Saber and the servant are back in the real world again. Or maybe it'll never happen.

[willyvereb]

Can't be possible. It's like researching a way to reach godhood(actually that can be a much easier than researching THAT). Magic is s serious discipline which was passed down from generation to generation to achieve their dreams. Researching some serious thing in general takes DECADES for the magi to achieve the results. Even if Rin is a genius she has no chance to do something as ridiculous as that...AND both Shirou and Saber wouldn't want something like that. Well, Shirou might want to see Saber and she wouldn't mind that too, but it makes Shirou a weakling if he takes back his words.
But actually for him to see Saber is possible though now if I think about it(the comments above where about the chance of saber being saved or inventing something that keeps her in the mortal world for unlimited time). Using something like the Grail's system they can, but it consumes tons of money preparation, papers,time and else to recreate the disassembled Grail System. And all that for only a little visit...because obviously Saber hardly wants to stay in the world. So scratch it. Shirou isn't so desperate and weak-willed to do something like that. He certainly never forgets Saber but he isn't going to be alone for the rest of his life in the end of Fate route.

[Flinch]

In the end, we've got sad endings all around, although, they're all happy endings in comparison to the Metal Gear series. I swear, out of all the characters that appear over 50 years, only 2 or 3 live happily ever after... everyone else watches their dreams be shattered or dies.

[orangejuicetang]

Weren't we talking about a hypothetical sequel to ubw, not fate, though? Although, it is rather unlikely though.
Although if we're talking about endings, what's happier in comparison? Dying satisfied with your life/what you accomplished, or simply surviving, without your goals completed?

[willyvereb]

Dying statisfied of course, living forever without being able to do the thing what you want is rather frustrating and disillusioning. Perhaps if the said person never succeeds achieving his/her goal(or at least making a good progress). Good example is Archer for the later...

[orangejuicetang]

I wasn't actually talking about living forever, but more along not accomplishing your goals but coming out alive. Or what do you think is more happy for Saber, the Fate ending, or the UBW Good ending.

I also want to mention that Archer actually died satisfied. It's only a while after he died that he became so... unsatisfied.

[willyvereb]

Because UBW movie is still underway I ask your question in spoiler tags:

Spoiler for VN, UBW mostly:

Actually, Saber's stay in UBW-good is only temporaly. She stays until Shirou can answer to Archer's question. If you want to compare something, then compar UBW-good with UBW-true. In the true ending she realises the answer and dies contempt while in good ending she remains as llong as she don't have the answer. I bet maybe the later a bit more happier to Saber, but compared with Fate's ending it's still worse for her. She leaves fullfilled in Fate while in UBW she only got an answer to that big question and she's only on the road of figuring out the things she got in Fate.

[grylsyjaeger]

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

I wasn't actually talking about living forever, but more along not accomplishing your goals but coming out alive. Or what do you think is more happy for Saber, the Fate ending, or the UBW Good ending.

I've only finished the Fate route so far but I'm up to day ten of UBW but I really liked the end to Fate.

As much as I wanted her to stay and for them to be together it's just too... perfect I guess I'd say. And their parting really was beautiful and Saber's final words to Shirou nearly brought a tear to my eye.

Best scene of the Fate route? Has to be the Fasting Lunch choice in the Dojo, I could not stop laughing at Saber's reaction.

[Guernsey]

One thing bugs me, I know this is a Fate/Stay Night forum but it is said that Shiki's eyes can cut through anything even nothingness, does that mean they can cut through concepts, ideas or anything that keeps the universe together? How can you cut through a concept or idea?

[orangejuicetang]

To answer that question, it really depends on which Shiki your talking about. Tohno Shiki: no fucking way. Satunji or however you spell it: not enough information. Ryougi Shiki: maybe, if she manages to focus hard enough, but the odds are low. 3rd personality Ryougi Shiki: Yes.

From here on, I'm going to assume your talking about Ryougi, because Tohno Shiki can't cut through metaphysical concepts. If you cut a concept, than that concept dies/stops affecting things within that area. For example, if Shiki killed the concept of gravity within an area, than the gravity in that area would disappear. Actually let's bring Tohno Shiki back into this for one example. During tsukihime, during one route, he kills "gaia" or the earth within a certain area. Or to put it more specifically, the "concept" of gaia, which is nature, plants, life, ect. At that point, gaia died within that area, and Arc, who is invulnerable under gaia, became vulnerable.

To put it in another way, yes, every Shiki could cut through concepts and such. But usually, it'll take up so much concentration since Shiki needs to understand the death of the object that the point is moot, unless it's 3rd personality Ryougi or maybe Satunji. And really, you could have posted this in the Kara no Kyoukai thread.

[willyvereb]

And even if they manage to kill the Servants their fun is short lived. Without the concept which adds form and shape to that eneroumus amount of prana the Heroic Spirits explode like a giant bomb...Every Servant has at least 1000 prana to use and also the prana making up their body.It can cause an extreme explosion.
For example an A class spell(like Rin's gems) if used for destruction it can eraese a whole house with it. An explosion of1000-3000 prana would be about 10-30 times larger(About the size of a business complex).
In short killing a Servant that way is REALLY suicidal...even f they manage.
And killing a Servant for T.Shiki is like killing Wallachia...though because of different things. Like the Servants hardly have the Gaian concept of death...or that they're only resembling humans in structure very,very faintly.

And Shiki didn't kill the world. He killed the nature there. Because Arcueid is invincible in the nature so Shiki killed it in the area. And he didn't killed her...just forced her to retreat.

[orangejuicetang]

Um... the question was whether or not Shiki could kill Servants. That topic has been discussed to death and back multiple times, and honestly, it doesn't really matter considering that unless they were asleep, Shiki has no chance either way. He was just asking about the Shikis killing concepts, which is probably more within their range than killing a Servant.

[Flinch]

Anyone can kill a Servant, it's just a lot harder if you're not a Servant. It'd be most probable with large-scale explosives, as the concussive force will cause blood vessels to burst within a certain radius, leaving the victim (including a Servant if they're close enough) to bleed out internally. It's the same principle as a grenade... just a LOT bigger (a grenade would lack both the force and the range to effectively kill a Servant). Physics 101.

[willyvereb]

You need to replay the first few days of the game. Servants have an entirely different body structure. They hardly care about their blood vessels and else. The only thing they need is prana and their spiritual core intact. Not to mention the Servants as spirits from higher plane can't be affected by lower class beings. That's why they can even survie a nuclear explosion, but if a Servant picks up a butter knife they have to consider it as a threat. Perhaps there are methods to hurt spirits(magic), but they also need to be powerfull to have any effect.
Bombs and grenades are useless against them.