AnoHana - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Knightrunner]

Yukiatsu is just plain pitiful. If Yukiatsu really meant what he said about never acknowledging Jinta before then he wasn't really a friend before either. Just a guy who wants to outdo the other guy. I was angry when I saw those words subbed. After, I saw the endind I felt more pity than anger.

Tsuruko went up in my book. She was epic in this episode even though I think she is a bit harsh and too blunt sometimes, especially to Anaru. After seeing her color pencil drawings, explaing how to correct those muffins, her reminiscing about her childhood days, and destroying Yukiatsu rumors showed how much she cared about the group. I use to thought she was hanging around Yukiatsu because he seemed to have his act together compared to Jinta, but I was totally wrong.

Jinta annoys me a bit at times. It feels like he is doing h*lf *ss work especially when it comes to bringing people together. Poppo, Anaru, and Tsuruko are making the geniune effort, but Jinta needs a ghost(Menma) to tell him what to do. He can be so thick headed sometimes.

[Guardian Enzo]

Interestingly, for all the complaints that AnoHana shouldn't have gotten a sub-forum (which as the mods pointed out is not based mainly on the sheer number of posts) this episode thread now has 25 more posts than the thread for the excellent 5th ep of HanaIro. Maybe Manma was the thing to finally make AnoHana go from popular to viral.

[germanturkey]

when Iroha gets a cross dressing guy, then we'll talk...

[Anh_Minh]

Well, I wouldn't put it above Jirou... Or that old guy he was going to put in bondage...

Tooru would surprise me, though.

[Knightrunner]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Interestingly, for all the complaints that AnoHana shouldn't have gotten a sub-forum (which as the mods pointed out is not based mainly on the sheer number of posts) this episode thread now has 25 more posts than the thread for the excellent 5th ep of HanaIro. Maybe Manma was the thing to finally make AnoHana go from popular to viral.

To be fair, I haven't heard of this anime until I checked the subforums. Then I checked the images and I said to myself these characters look nicely drawn, I better check this out. Then sure enough, Nokemon and WcDanalds got me into this anime

Glad this anime gotten it's own subforum.

[aohige]

So, are we gonna be rehashing this Ghost vs Just Trippin' Man for the next seven episode threads?

[CWW]

In that case... shipping wars?

Jinta x Anaru
Yukiatsu x Ghost Menma
Poppo x Tsuruko

:V

[Anh_Minh]

Harem end, with Jinta as the focus. (Yes, including Jinta x Poppo and Jinta x Yukiatsu.)

Especially the last: why do you think Yukiatsu's turning into Menma? He's just even worse about it than Anaru...

[CWW]

That's brilliant!

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

To be fair, I haven't heard of this anime until I checked the subforums. Then I checked the images and I said to myself these characters look nicely drawn, I better check this out. Then sure enough, Nokemon and WcDanalds got me into this anime

Glad this anime gotten it's own subforum.

I love hearing that - one of my initial responses to the complainers was that sometimes the very act of getting a sub-forum draws more viewers (and posts) to a series.

[Sheba]

It was psgels from Star Crossed blog who made me check this series. I am a sucker for stories about friends drifting away or trying to stay tight-knit.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by cherrycolaz

Menma is a ghost. She can't be a hallucination. Reason:

In episode one (at 20:05), we could see her visit her own family's home and accidentally knock down a glass of water on the table. Hallucinations can't do that.
Secondly, she baked those muffins. Yet again, not something hallucinations can do.
Thirdly, as we saw in episode 4, she jumped on Poppo and he could feel her weight. Can people actually feel a hallucination's weight? Nope. Unless it's a ghost.

1. It can be a narrative trick, in other words, we show what Jintan thought that Menma should be doing.
2. Jintan could very well have cooked while believing that Menma did it, common with schizopherics, and was also the main plot device in Fight Club, among other films, and novels.
3. There can be a billion reasons, why Poppo felt something heavy, for example blood pressure (getting excited with his physique), and Jintan explained it through Menma's overzealous hug.

Anyway, my point is that it is possible for Menma to be Jintan's delusion, but meta-thinking it is very unlikely

Originally Posted by cherrycolaz

These things points to the fact that Menma, in fact, is a ghost. Though I don't know why only Jintan can see her. I'm quite sure it's because she told him about her wish? And that only he knows about it and can fulfill it. Yet he forgot about it and so did she... so the anime is basically about finding out about the wish and fulfilling it, and once it's been fulfilled, everybody can see Menma. THE END. Happy ending. Yay.

Depending on the legend you go by, there those ghosts that haunt a specific person, and do not interact with anyone or anything else.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I don't remember her snubbing Jinta. She was rather distant, yes, but so was Jinta.

As for Anaru, she was angry at her. Some would say "unfairly", but as far as I'm concerned, it's "understandably".

I said that because of the way she treated Yukiatsu/Poppo (indifferent) compared to Anaru (love rival) / Jintan (unrequited love)

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

And yes, she did betray Yukiatsu, in a way. Though it's not like he told her he was crossdressing - he was using her as a cover so as to not appear creepy when buying female accessories and the like. But to come back to Tsuruko - I think her intentions were good. (And that, bottom line, she made the right choice.) Hilarious as Yukiatsu's activities were to us, they weren't healthy. They were hurting to himself and the rest of the Busters. And, more importantly to her, they're a symptom of his inability to move forward, which has to be confronted, too.

I don't doubt that humiliating her friend was done with best intentions for him, at least from her point of view; therefore the... what a bitch

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Interestingly, for all the complaints that AnoHana shouldn't have gotten a sub-forum (which as the mods pointed out is not based mainly on the sheer number of posts) this episode thread now has 25 more posts than the thread for the excellent 5th ep of HanaIro. Maybe Manma was the thing to finally make AnoHana go from popular to viral.

That's no surprise, since we basically post what we did in the original thread in the last episode thread, and splitting posts between threads to remain OT... but yeah it's not bad or anything... yet (not too much scattered conversation), it's just that other shows could really use access to separate threads because their main ones are bloated with discussions on different topics.

Originally Posted by germanturkey

when Iroha gets a cross dressing guy, then we'll talk...

Like kinbaku and yuri trio were not enough

Originally Posted by aohige

So, are we gonna be rehashing this Ghost vs Just Trippin' Man for the next seven episode threads?

In light of new events each episode, I guess it's inevitable

Originally Posted by CWW

In that case... shipping wars?

Jinta x Anaru
Yukiatsu x Ghost Menma
Poppo x Tsuruko

:V

What about an eroge tier bad end...

Spoiler for mature audiences only:

1. Tsuruko follows after Misaki@Teizokurei footsteps (necromancer/domina)
2. Anaru advances from gyaru to ganguro, contracting a fatal STD.
3. Yukiatsu believes he is Menama, but after being turned down by Jintan, tries to kill himself, only to be saved by Poppo, and in appreciation spend the rest of their life together... actually that would be a good end for fujoshi
4. Menma eventually rages over Jintan being unable to fulfill her wish and graphically kills him.

[Forsaken_Infinity]

That was a great episode. Really awesome. I didn't give it a perfect score but that's only because I sincerely hope to see the show get even BETTER.

I thought it was obvious that it was Yukiatsu who was dressed up as Menma. I initially thought it was a call between Tsuruko and Yukiatsu but that scene in the shopping center in epi 3 where Yukiatsu bought all those girl stuff made it obvious. Not that it mattered since suspense wasn't what made the ordeal awesome. It was the whole atmosphere.

There were some great posts in this thread as well. Really nice to have a good deal of input from awesome folks all around. You guys are part of the experience. Banzai! I will try to reply to some of them.

Originally Posted by Ascaloth

About Memma, I think she'll turn out to be this series' big unanswered question. Is she a hallucination, or is she a real poltergeist? My bet is, the approach that will be taken is "who cares", and will focus on how the rest of the group finally deal with and get over that particular traumatic event together in the end.

Yep. Word. This is precisely how I think the show will deal with it and its all for the better really. Except, I don't think it's a "big" question at all. It's exactly like you put, "who cares?" That shouldn't stop us from speculating however

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I think there were a couple of reasons Tsuruko "outed" Yukiatsu. Most obviously because she's holding a candle for him and this was a sort of intervention. But I also think for all her stern exterior she's a genuinely caring person. She likes Jinta and feels real sympathy for him, and she could see that for him the Menma-ghost thing was very real - and didn't like seeing Yukiatsu making a mockery of his feelings, be they illusory or not.

She is indeed a caring and mature person. HOWEVER, I don't think she outed Yukiatsu because he hurt Jintan's sincere feelings etc. I think she did it because she thought Jintan's case is similar to Yukiatsu, except, not as worse. She definitely did this because she thought this was in the best interest of both Jinta and Yukiatsu. I am not so sure she is deeply in love with Yukiatsu as most people are assuming although I am not writing off romantic interest either (especially considering this writer ). An equally plausible, and for me, awesomer, explanation would be that she just happened to be closer to him (not uncommon, in groups of six people, subgroups are bound to be formed) and/or stuck with him because she knew just how much help the guy actually needed. I mean, Yukiatsu would have probably killed himself by now had she not been around him.

Originally Posted by Reckoner

Funny enough, this show's biggest weakness is Memma. I gave this episode an 8/10 which is still very good, but I can't help but think they're overplaying the melodrama card with Memma.

[MIDDLE PART]Basically "Menma cries too much too quick" paraphrased 10 times [/MIDDLE PART]

Basically, my only problem with the show so far is the lack of subtlety in execution. The emotions will flow naturally without Memma dancing around on screen with tears in her eyes, they don't need to exaggerate it so much.

Anyhow, I think the final key to dispelling Memma will be Jintan's apology to Memma, and the removal of the guilty conscience of himself and his friends.

I vehemently disagree with your complaints about Menma. The entire premise of the show is that Menma is still childish and wishes to see her friends get back together. And from what the show has shown thus far, it's safe to assume that Menma was the most emotional of the bunch to begin with. I don't think it's farfetched or pushing the melodrama over the top for a girl to cry when one of her friends she deeply cares about twists her feelings and claims that she suggested those words. Besides, expressing your emotions openly is a GOOD thing. It's better than stuffing them in and turning into egotistical beasts or shut-ins or the like. Menma is superior to the rest of the cast - and respected / endeared by all of them - precisely because she is so upfront and frank. There is no exaggeration. Besides, we don't even know if she is real. For all we know, it could just be Jinta's perception of how Menma is and heck, from what they showed her as a kid, I find all the reason to believe Menma would actually break down into tears over her friends deciding to stop meeting etc. Especially when they had barely got back together and when the idea of stopping is put as coldly as Yukiatsu did.

Agreed with the last bit of your post though. And that is actually the weak part for me. I kinda wish they don't even bother clearing that up. The destination doesn't matter, the ride does. I don't really care how Menma disperses at the end so long as the group coming together entertains me as much as this episode did.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

This ep didn't do much for me. Too weird to be interesting -- and I usually like weird. But I just didn't feel the characters.
This would be interesting, but how can she be a hallucination when at least two people who cannot see her and have no idea she is "there" have felt her weight?
One reason she is so great is that Hayami Saori is doing a fantastic job with her voice. Hayamin's work has grown tremendously in the past year.

She is doing a radio show right now with Yuuki Aoi. The preview episode revealed what a contrast they are: fast-talking ota-kid Ao-chan and elegant lady Hayamin. Two of my favorite seiyuus.

The fact that the radio show is not connected with any particular anime demonstrates that these two 19-year-olds are hitting the big time as seiyuu personalities. (The audio is at the bottom of the linked page. You can hear their personalities even if you can't understand Japanese.)

What precisely was weird? Yukiatsu? Sure, he has some problems, but people with such issues do exist. It was your personal feeling so I have nothing to say but I do think you'd enjoy it more on a rewatch perhaps?

Thanks for the link to the radio show. It's awesome haha.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I still think this is ultimately the wrong question. The anime isn't about paranormal research - it's about the impact Menma had in the past and continues to have on all of the Busters (especially Jinta). Who knows for sure, but it's very possible you're setting yourselves up for disappointment if you expect the show to ever spell out just exactly what Menma is.

Yep. It's about a bunch of friends that split over an unfortunate occurrence coming back together. Menma's nature is insignificant, so to speak.

Originally Posted by cherrycolaz

Menma is a ghost. She can't be a hallucination. Reason:

In episode one (at 20:05), we could see her visit her own family's home and accidentally knock down a glass of water on the table. Hallucinations can't do that.
Secondly, she baked those muffins. Yet again, not something hallucinations can do.
Thirdly, as we saw in episode 4, she jumped on Poppo and he could feel her weight. Can people actually feel a hallucination's weight? Nope. Unless it's a ghost.

These things points to the fact that Menma, in fact, is a ghost. Though I don't know why only Jintan can see her. I'm quite sure it's because she told him about her wish? And that only he knows about it and can fulfill it. Yet he forgot about it and so did she... so the anime is basically about finding out about the wish and fulfilling it, and once it's been fulfilled, everybody can see Menma. THE END. Happy ending. Yay.

The following quote is a good reply to this:

Originally Posted by guuchan

This show is kind of told from Jinta's PoV, so those "hints" could be purposefully misleading. Maybe Poppo just happened to feel a chill; maybe Tsuruko just suddenly got a shoulder pain; maybe Jinta made the bread himself all along. We don't know at this point.

Precisely. There is no reason to take those "feel the weight" scenes for real. The only scenes that would support the ghost hypothesis are the ones in Menma's house and the puppy scene that featured only her but it'd not be a far stretch to attribute even that to Jinta's imagination. And he doesn't really need to be schizophrenic either, a "let's imagine Menma comes back" works too. Or heck, he can simply be making it all up to get everyone back together. I know I have done something similar before o.0

Originally Posted by CWW

Why is that? Because he can see Menma? Because he doesn't go to school? Because Anaru's tripping made him remember of unpleasant things in the past?

His mother and best friend passed away suddenly. You can't simply forget them and move on, even when five years have passed. He has every reason to mope around. He is trying his best now to come out of his shell (with a little help from Menma) and for that he should be applauded, not criticized.

Yukiatsu is an entirely dfferent matter. He can't let go of the past, not because he doesn't want to, but because his mind refuses to. To make things worse, he has a superiority complex. There may be other reasons behind it, such as his relationship with his parents, but it's clear that he has much, much bigger issues than Jinta.

Assuming Jinta isn't schizophrenic. I don't think they're going for that route though. I sense optimism rather than Fight Club-esque plot twists.

I like how you can sympathize with Jinta. But then why is it so wrong for Yukiatsu to be unable to let go of the past? He was clearly obsessed with Menma even as a kid. Way more than Jinta. Why is to so bad to have a mental condition? He is clearly in need of professional help. Actually, I think I might be misreading your post a bit. I initially thought you were implying Yukiatsu was a really horrible person by nature while Jinta wasn't but it seems that isn't the case. I agree with you if you are saying Yukiatsu has bigger issues than Jinta and much more in need of professional help. I think Yukiatsu's issues are more pressing even if Jinta does turn out to be schizophrenic although I pretty much expect the show to never explain what Menma exactly is.

Originally Posted by Malkuth

[LIST=1]
What about an eroge tier bad end...

Spoiler for mature audiences only:

1. Tsuruko follows after Misaki@Teizokurei footsteps (necromancer/domina)
2. Anaru advances from gyaru to ganguro, contracting a fatal STD.
3. Yukiatsu believes he is Menama, but after being turned down by Jintan, tries to kill himself, only to be saved by Poppo, and in appreciation spend the rest of their life together... actually that would be a good end for fujoshi
4. Menma eventually rages over Jintan being unable to fulfill her wish and graphically kills him.

As much as I love eroges, let's not get there with this one :s

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I love hearing that - one of my initial responses to the complainers was that sometimes the very act of getting a sub-forum draws more viewers (and posts) to a series.

But you can't deny that you also lose some people because the discussion gets split into several sections and that tires people out. I know I kind of dislike it and don't post unless something awesome happens. Besides, most of the show that actually have a sub-forum are so bad that I tend to just never look there. Heck, it took me a search up to third page of thread titles under current series to even assume AnoHana got a sub-forum >.>

[risingstar3110]

Well the storyline, the pace and the characters of this anime is nice and all. And surely i will follow to see what gonna happen...

However it's kind of frustrated at the level of how idiotic this main lead is. He has a ghost who not only can eat, but also can play game and make muffin cake. How can it be easier to check whether she's a real ghost or just his hallucination?

Even if Jintan can't tell her to make muffin in front of them or simply just hold a book up in the air. Then he can just use a set of card and ask Poppon to check it for him. If she's just his hallucination, then her knowledge or memory are limited by Jintan's knowledge. If she can't recognize what Jintan hasn't seen, then she can't be something more than a hallucination

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

I don't doubt that humiliating her friend was done with best intentions for him, at least from her point of view; therefore the... what a bitch

... Do you think it'd have been a kindness to let him continue his deception?

Now, she could have tried to confront him discreetly. But I don't think he'd have been very receptive. It'd just have driven him crazier. And now, if Yukiatsu turns violent, it'll be four against one. Including the much bigger Poppo.

And, though I don't think it entered her reasoning, Yukiatsu can't claim the moral high ground, there. He's been an ass to everyone on several levels.

[CWW]

Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity

I like how you can sympathize with Jinta. But then why is it so wrong for Yukiatsu to be unable to let go of the past? He was clearly obsessed with Menma even as a kid. Way more than Jinta. Why is to so bad to have a mental condition? He is clearly in need of professional help. Actually, I think I might be misreading your post a bit. I initially thought you were implying Yukiatsu was a really horrible person by nature while Jinta wasn't but it seems that isn't the case. I agree with you if you are saying Yukiatsu has bigger issues than Jinta and much more in need of professional help. I think Yukiatsu's issues are more pressing even if Jinta does turn out to be schizophrenic although I pretty much expect the show to never explain what Menma exactly is.

The reason I can symphathize with Jinta is that he genuinely wants to make amends for his outburst that day, even though it's not at all his fault that Menma died. He probably outgrew Nokemon years ago, but he still paid an apparently exorbitant price for a "children's" game (it's likely he threw away the game some time after Menma's death), in front of an acquaintance no less, just to possibly maybe make Menma's wish (which he thinks is a figment of his imagination) come true. In this episode, he showed the fail muffins to defend Menma, risking being judged by others. The story has so far been set up to symphathize with him. Anaru has a similar position as she too has regrets.

Yukiatsu though, there aren't any given so far. He liked Menma and hated Jinta, but nothing more is given why he's like this. He may be a horrible person by nature, he may not be, it's unclear at this point what drove him to be this way and what his current intentions are. There are hints that his conversations with Jinta are reflections on himself, but it's pretty vague at this point. That's why I find it surprising that people can take pity on him when nothing is as of yet known, yet criticize Jinta for acting the way he's done, or even compare the two. Like has been mentioned before, it's not the focal point of the story to prove whether Menma is 'real' or not. Better yet, it adds a bit of mystery.

It's like Natsume or his grandmother Reiko in Natsume Yuujinchou. Sure, he can prove people he has a talking cat that can transform into a giant cat spirit, but would it benefit the story? Of course not.

[kitten320]

Wow... so it was Yukiatsu after all? He sure needs a mental help...
Tsuruko became more interesting for me and she really must like the guy in order to always hang around with him despite knowing/suspecting the weird truth.

Yukiatsu is a freak but I do hope that he will get over his obsession and will pay more attention to Tsuruko who geniuely cares about him.

[darkmanure]

I'll defend Menma's constant crying. Jinta did say Menma was a huge crybaby in the past and she died young and kept the young personality. Of course she is going to cry at lot when she has a personality of a 9-10 year old.

Expect more crying.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Wow... so it was Yukiatsu after all? He sure needs a mental help...
Tsuruko became more interesting for me and she really must like the guy in order to always hang around with him despite knowing/suspecting the weird truth.

She had no little reason to suspect he was crossdressing until a fake Menma appeared.

...

Maybe she thought he had a weird shrine to Menma or something... She sure as hell didn't think he had a secret girlfriend somewhere.

[kitten320]

^She still knows, the idea did not cross anyones else mind. And she actually was very confident about this so she must have known about lot of weird things about him.

She knows him so well to the point of knowing that when he was shouting at Jinta for being pathetic, that he actuallly was mad at himself.