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Catgirls · 2006-12-06, 10:20

Welcome to the discussion thread for Kanon, Episode 10.

Thread Guidelines

No telling or asking for raws.
Try to keep spoilers from the game or manga out of the anime thread.
If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the game or manga, either PM them or use clearly marked spoiler tags (see example below).
Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired.
Be polite to your fellow forum members.
Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible.

Spoiler Tag Example

[spoiler=title]Don't forget to use a title for the spoiler![/spoiler]
...becomes...

Spoiler for title:

Don't forget to use a title for the spoiler!

Orrin · 2006-12-07, 13:15

Well this episode is probably the best 24 minutes of anime i have seen this year, first time I'll give away a perfect 10. This was just so much...

I don't want to spoil anything even with tags so I won't say anything more.

Celia · 2006-12-07, 14:37

Personally, I didn't like this episode... And Makoto is my favorite Kanon girl.
I'm not sure what it was, but the way they handled it could have went a lot better. This episode had the real potential to be a cry fest, and I barely shed one tear. (And I'm not emotionless either, this is coming from the girl who cried for 20 minutes straight while playing Planetarian.)

Spoiler for Makoto:

I think the original series handled her ending a lot better, though it was a bit rushed. All in all, I'm disappointed with the way KyoAni went about Makoto's arc. While it was nice seing her fleshed out more, having her be the first girl to go AND the way they did it was just two thumbs down for me.
Though, I can't say I'm 100% disappointed. The animation was stunning, as usual, and the Mishio/Makoto scenes were wonderful. So I have it a seven out of ten. The episode was good, but not the great it had the potential to be.
On other notes, no Ayu or Mai either. Though it seems like we'll be getting plenty of them in the next episode. (Is that Ayu's cooking on the table??)

Leo_Otaku · 2006-12-07, 15:12

I thought it was handled very well,

Spoiler for Makoto:

I thought it was done very well, actually. Mishio's extended character was very interesting too.

Mai's arc next ^-^

Mentar · 2006-12-07, 15:14

I've got to say I have to disagree. In my opinion, the way KyoAni handled it was outstanding. A solid 9 again.

Cyz · 2006-12-07, 16:02

Episode 10 screenshots courtesy of Random Curiosity. Have the tissue ready for this one

Hmm...I'm beginning to miss Ayu

Wonder what she was doing when this is happening?

panzerfan · 2006-12-07, 17:14

My god... the beginning when Akiko-san says "Mommy will have fun with you" already has my stomach upset. When Amano's introduction to Makoto, I was only surprised when Makoto calls Yuiichi's name as well.
The birthday scene is just sobering. The firework that comes afterward...
and Akiko sending her off is stinging to me.
I love this Yuiich far more personally.

At anyrate... it wasn't as battering as I've dread it to be. The graphics seem a bit off in some places... but anyway. Maybe it's because I've long expected it coming.

Vexx · 2006-12-07, 17:54

I kind of see what Celia is lamenting..... the end "special effect" seemed a bit more in the 2002 version ... but the run up in this version is stellar ...

(stellar as in my chest aches now)

Sushi-Y · 2006-12-07, 18:07

Personally, I really liked this episode. It wasn't destructive as I thought it would be, probably because I know the story too well. Then again, crying is not my objective anyway.

Spoiler:

Next week will be the start of Mai's route, it seems...
We're an important point here: will Kyoani really be able to "weave" everything into one story? Will we see references to Makoto's events, or will Yuuichi simply pretend nothing happened and move on to his next targe... I mean, move on with his life?

houkoholic · 2006-12-07, 21:07

I agree that the Toei version had more impact compared with the Kyoani version, but deep down, the Toei version made a fundemental error by going with pure impact and this again made Kyoani's handling better. The error has to do with the message the execution conveyed across.

Spoiler:

Next episode has both Mai and Ayu's elements in it. I'm happy to see, but not surprised, that they're going to weave Ayu's part into Mai's story.

Greenish Growth · 2006-12-07, 23:09

You raise a good point Houkoholic.

This might mean that the other girl's stories might not end up quite as dramatic as I thought they would in this second series. I figured that increased accuracy and length would increase the drama, but that was a mistaken assumption on my part.

I'll adjust my expectations accordingly and continue to enjoy the scenes I didn't get to see in the first series.

Meophist · 2006-12-07, 23:46

Kyoto Animation just exceeded my expectations ten-fold. When I was expecting the end, I wasn't expecting this. Just simply incredible. Absolutely perfect.

I wonder if we'll see Mishio-san again…

todkapuz · 2006-12-08, 01:59

I'm glad I wasn't as teary as I was in the Toei version.... i agree with the spoilered comments.... this is the way I thought Kanon should be when it came to this important scene.

taht being said.... I WANT MAI!!!!!!!!! ... looks like we might get a bit more of her fun next time.

KenOhki'sRage · 2006-12-08, 02:59

Owari da yo. I tried very hard, so I didn't cry. I'll say no more till everyone's seen it.

Kaoru Chujo · 2006-12-08, 04:38

Akiko saying itterasshai and then wiping away tears was the moment for me. What a wonderful episode of anime.

I have sometimes felt before that KyoAni doesn't wring as much emotion from scenes, here or in AIR, as they might. But I see them going for that bittersweet feeling rather than a sob-fest, and also looking at the emotional arc of the whole story. There was an underlying positive feeling there, in the end. And Sugita Tomokazu is just great.

Thelastguardian · 2006-12-08, 05:02

I will keep my thoughts brief

I thought KyoAni would whor- I mean concentrate on the game cg where Makoto holds onto her silk mask against the sunset backdrop.

I guess Toei's version is more emotionally impactful because they gave that scene more than the 1 second shot in KyoAni's version

. As someone said, Toei's version may not had the best strategy.

I don't have much thoughts throughout this episode except...Yuuichi, I noticed you said many stuff like "we will always be together" and "I like you the most" and "let's get marry" .

Don't you have 4 more girls to attack?

You can't just use up all the reserve lines for the 1st girl can you?

/I kid I kid

Anyway, the next episode is going to advance both Ayu and Mai combine. You can see this from episode 11's title - intermezzo

An intermezzo is somewhat like the interlude between movements.

houkoholic · 2006-12-08, 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thelastguardian

I don't have much thoughts throughout this episode except...Yuuichi, I noticed you said many stuff like "we will always be together" and "I like you the most" and "let's get marry" .

yuuichi only said "I really liked you". So he is "safe".

The marry part, definitely not romantic on Yuuichi's part. He's just doing it to fulfill Makoto's wish.

panzerfan · 2006-12-08, 06:16

I can't help but to think of the last episodes of AIR regarding Makoto's arc. Looking back to it, I think that the sheer intensity of the last parts as well as the emotional intensity coming from Haruko-san ebb at the heart without mercy... unlike Kanon, where there seems to be some relief in how the characters retain strength, AIR sees Haruko breaking down in front of you which might just be why is it that I felt horrible sitting through the last arc.

Well, the moment that Yuiichi aludes to family, I just can't help it but think back to that...

Spoiler for off-tangent musing on Haruko-san:

Mentar · 2006-12-08, 07:29

I know now why TWH-Sprocket were so quick with their release today. They surely wanted to get it over with...

Working on this ep is killing me ;_;

TougeSil80 · 2006-12-08, 08:03

Great ep. It's an very sad end for Makoto, but at least Yuuichi did his best to fullfill her wish. I didn't watch the 2002 version, but I think Kyoani handled this very well.

View Poll Results: Kanon - 2006 - Episode 10 Rating
Perfect 10	117	66.48%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	38	21.59%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	13	7.39%
7 out of 10 : Good	5	2.84%
6 out of 10 : Average	0	0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor	2	1.14%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	1	0.57%
1 out of 10 : Painful	0	0%
Voters: 176. You may not vote on this poll

2006-12-06, 10:20	Link #1
Catgirls I am mowing clowns Join Date: Dec 2005	Kanon - 2006 - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll Welcome to the discussion thread for Kanon, Episode 10. Thread Guidelines No telling or asking for raws. Try to keep spoilers from the game or manga out of the anime thread. If you need to in reply to someone with a reference to the game or manga, either PM them or use clearly marked spoiler tags (see example below). Discuss your expectations of the episode if not aired. Be polite to your fellow forum members. Try to keep the discussion on topic and future episode spoilers out of the thread whenever possible. Spoiler Tag Example [spoiler=title]Don't forget to use a title for the spoiler![/spoiler] ...becomes... Spoiler for title: Don't forget to use a title for the spoiler!

2006-12-07, 14:37	Link #3
Celia Hikikomori Join Date: Dec 2006 Age: 33	Personally, I didn't like this episode... And Makoto is my favorite Kanon girl. I'm not sure what it was, but the way they handled it could have went a lot better. This episode had the real potential to be a cry fest, and I barely shed one tear. (And I'm not emotionless either, this is coming from the girl who cried for 20 minutes straight while playing Planetarian.) Spoiler for Makoto: I actually chuckled when Makoto vanished. The way they did it was just way to sudden, and not very dramatic at all. It just seemed so random that it would go from dramatic slow-motion dying to... just gone. I like the way the first series had her go; with the explosion of sparkles. It was almost like the fireworks, which Makoto so loved. I think the original series handled her ending a lot better, though it was a bit rushed. All in all, I'm disappointed with the way KyoAni went about Makoto's arc. While it was nice seing her fleshed out more, having her be the first girl to go AND the way they did it was just two thumbs down for me. Though, I can't say I'm 100% disappointed. The animation was stunning, as usual, and the Mishio/Makoto scenes were wonderful. So I have it a seven out of ten. The episode was good, but not the great it had the potential to be. On other notes, no Ayu or Mai either. Though it seems like we'll be getting plenty of them in the next episode. (Is that Ayu's cooking on the table??)

2006-12-07, 15:12	Link #4
Leo_Otaku Rewrite of the Life Join Date: May 2003 Location: Canada Age: 37	I thought it was handled very well, Spoiler for Makoto: She disappears the same way in the game, unlike how Toei made it. Though I liked in the Toei version, how he was a little more saddened that she was gone so suddenly. I really liked the included wedding scene I liked that part alot and how they showed the photo at the end. I thought it was done very well, actually. Mishio's extended character was very interesting too. Mai's arc next ^-^

2006-12-07, 17:14	Link #7
panzerfan Name means little... Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2004	My god... the beginning when Akiko-san says "Mommy will have fun with you" already has my stomach upset. When Amano's introduction to Makoto, I was only surprised when Makoto calls Yuiichi's name as well. The birthday scene is just sobering. The firework that comes afterward... and Akiko sending her off is stinging to me. I love this Yuiich far more personally. At anyrate... it wasn't as battering as I've dread it to be. The graphics seem a bit off in some places... but anyway. Maybe it's because I've long expected it coming. __________________ It would be enough for the depressing things in life to only exist in reality. It is because that I think the birth of a story... is from people dreaming of a happy ending. ~Misaka Shiori

2006-12-07, 13:15	Link #2
Orrin Sumika Kagami Fanboy Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sweden Age: 41	Well this episode is probably the best 24 minutes of anime i have seen this year, first time I'll give away a perfect 10. This was just so much... I don't want to spoil anything even with tags so I won't say anything more.

2006-12-07, 15:14	Link #5
Mentar Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg Age: 54	I've got to say I have to disagree. In my opinion, the way KyoAni handled it was outstanding. A solid 9 again.

2006-12-07, 17:54	Link #8
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	I kind of see what Celia is lamenting..... the end "special effect" seemed a bit more in the 2002 version ... but the run up in this version is stellar ... (stellar as in my chest aches now) __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2006-12-07, 18:07	Link #9
Sushi-Y 湯音カワユス~ Scanlator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Canada Age: 38	Personally, I really liked this episode. It wasn't destructive as I thought it would be, probably because I know the story too well. Then again, crying is not my objective anyway. Spoiler: They really stressed Makoto's "cute pet property" here, she's too adorable. ^^ I think they tied the ending up pretty nicely, the wedding scene was beautiful, the lighting, the sky, the rustling sound of grass... Although we take it for granted by now, it really reminds you of Kyoani's quality when it comes to details. The last conversation with Mishio was also great. For some people, Mishio's tsundere-ness here is probably even more significant than the actual story. Next week will be the start of Mai's route, it seems... We're an important point here: will Kyoani really be able to "weave" everything into one story? Will we see references to Makoto's events, or will Yuuichi simply pretend nothing happened and move on to his next targe... I mean, move on with his life?

2006-12-07, 21:07	Link #10
houkoholic seiyuu maniac Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tokyo, Japan	I agree that the Toei version had more impact compared with the Kyoani version, but deep down, the Toei version made a fundemental error by going with pure impact and this again made Kyoani's handling better. The error has to do with the message the execution conveyed across. Spoiler: By making Makoto disappear when Yuuichi was carrying her up the hill, Toei did successfully made a very impacting and sad scene, however it also conveyed a sense of dispear and hopelessness. Toei Makoto disappeared with her wishes unfulfilled. Where is the miricale in this? Focusing on the "crying" part is nice and all, but this is not what Kanon is about. And thus they had to fix it with the extra episode but in the end it felt like they're just cheaply playing with your emotions Kyoani, otoh, made great effort in protarying Makoto spending her last moments happy, and she passed away happy, she left smiling. She got what she wanted, and Yuuichi made it happen, he was there until the very end. The monologue at the end was a nice touch. It adds a lot more depth to Yuuichi as a character, at least he felt he has done everything he can to make Makoto happy. Yuuichi's composure, his handling of the situation, his maturity shows that he can now let Makoto go. The family theme, father-daughter relationship is much more apparent in Kyoani's version. It's a bittersweat ending, yet this is consistant with the message Kanon is about. Even as a game player, I must confess that Toei's version did left me with a teary eye at first too, whereas Kyoani's version didn't. However, the bittersweat ending of Kyoani's version once again shows that they have a much deeper understanding of what Kanon is really about. Next episode has both Mai and Ayu's elements in it. I'm happy to see, but not surprised, that they're going to weave Ayu's part into Mai's story. Last edited by houkoholic; 2006-12-07 at 21:18.

2006-12-07, 23:09	Link #11
Greenish Growth Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	You raise a good point Houkoholic. This might mean that the other girl's stories might not end up quite as dramatic as I thought they would in this second series. I figured that increased accuracy and length would increase the drama, but that was a mistaken assumption on my part. I'll adjust my expectations accordingly and continue to enjoy the scenes I didn't get to see in the first series.

2006-12-07, 23:46	Link #12
Meophist Member Join Date: Oct 2006	Kyoto Animation just exceeded my expectations ten-fold. When I was expecting the end, I wasn't expecting this. Just simply incredible. Absolutely perfect. I wonder if we'll see Mishio-san again…

2006-12-08, 01:59	Link #13
todkapuz Seiza + Katana = Ai-daiyo Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Houston (Clear Lake), TX Age: 44	I'm glad I wasn't as teary as I was in the Toei version.... i agree with the spoilered comments.... this is the way I thought Kanon should be when it came to this important scene. taht being said.... I WANT MAI!!!!!!!!! ... looks like we might get a bit more of her fun next time.

2006-12-08, 02:59	Link #14
KenOhki'sRage Primula hates you Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Utah Age: 48	Owari da yo. I tried very hard, so I didn't cry. I'll say no more till everyone's seen it.

2006-12-08, 04:38	Link #15
Kaoru Chujo Yuuki Aoi Join Date: Jul 2004	Akiko saying itterasshai and then wiping away tears was the moment for me. What a wonderful episode of anime. I have sometimes felt before that KyoAni doesn't wring as much emotion from scenes, here or in AIR, as they might. But I see them going for that bittersweet feeling rather than a sob-fest, and also looking at the emotional arc of the whole story. There was an underlying positive feeling there, in the end. And Sugita Tomokazu is just great. __________________ YUUKI Aoi 悠木碧. b92.03.27 (age 29). 2008 Kurenai (Murasaki). 2009 Yumeiro Pâtissière (Ichigo), Kiruminzuu (Riko), Yutori-chan (Yutori-chan). 2010 Vampire Bund (Mina Tepeş), Shiki (Sunako), Samurai Girls (Juubee), Pokémon: Black and White (Iris). 2011 Madoka Magica (Madoka), Gosick (Victorique), A-Channel (Tooru). 2012 Symphogear (Hibiki). 2014 Pilot's Love Song (Claire/Nina), Nanatsu no Taizai (Diane). 2015 Owari no Seraph (Krul Tepes), Rokka no Yuusha (Fremy). 2016 Boku no Hero Academia (Tsuyu, Froppy). 2017 Kino no Tabi (Kino). 2021 Kumo desu ga (watashi), Kaizoku Oujo (Karin), Heike Monogatari (Biwa), etc., etc. Total of 513 roles in anime and games.

2006-12-08, 05:02	Link #16
Thelastguardian ... Join Date: Nov 2003	I will keep my thoughts brief I thought KyoAni would whor- I mean concentrate on the game cg where Makoto holds onto her silk mask against the sunset backdrop. I guess Toei's version is more emotionally impactful because they gave that scene more than the 1 second shot in KyoAni's version . As someone said, Toei's version may not had the best strategy. I don't have much thoughts throughout this episode except...Yuuichi, I noticed you said many stuff like "we will always be together" and "I like you the most" and "let's get marry" . Don't you have 4 more girls to attack? You can't just use up all the reserve lines for the 1st girl can you? /I kid I kid Anyway, the next episode is going to advance both Ayu and Mai combine. You can see this from episode 11's title - intermezzo An intermezzo is somewhat like the interlude between movements. __________________

2006-12-08, 06:16	Link #18
panzerfan Name means little... Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2004	I can't help but to think of the last episodes of AIR regarding Makoto's arc. Looking back to it, I think that the sheer intensity of the last parts as well as the emotional intensity coming from Haruko-san ebb at the heart without mercy... unlike Kanon, where there seems to be some relief in how the characters retain strength, AIR sees Haruko breaking down in front of you which might just be why is it that I felt horrible sitting through the last arc. Well, the moment that Yuiichi aludes to family, I just can't help it but think back to that... Spoiler for off-tangent musing on Haruko-san: SOS theater can do the AIR arc pretty good. Mikuru as Misuzu and Tsuruya-san as Haruko-san, with Kyon as Sora, Koizumi as Keisuke (Misuzu's dad)... __________________ It would be enough for the depressing things in life to only exist in reality. It is because that I think the birth of a story... is from people dreaming of a happy ending. ~Misaka Shiori Last edited by panzerfan; 2006-12-08 at 06:54.

2006-12-08, 07:29	Link #19
Mentar Banned Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Hamburg Age: 54	I know now why TWH-Sprocket were so quick with their release today. They surely wanted to get it over with... Working on this ep is killing me ;_;

2006-12-08, 08:03	Link #20
TougeSil80 I have enough, I'm gone. Join Date: Dec 2005	Great ep. It's an very sad end for Makoto, but at least Yuuichi did his best to fullfill her wish. I didn't watch the 2002 version, but I think Kyoani handled this very well.