Claymore Chapter 91

[Sleepy Speculator]

Don't want to pop your bubble, but; i think Miria was merely negotiating for asylum. Rabona is still known as a city that prohibits the super-unnatural and claymores are well unnatural demonic hybrids. To successfully hide 7 (9 with Clarice/Miata) blonde bombshells with silver eyes and no access to suppressent pills is quite frankly not gonna happen. Galatea had to blind herself in order to get away with it, and she's one person alone.

So the only way to stay there is with permission, she's not gonna take over, and she has no interest in fighting, doing so would merely draw the org and retribution (the no killing humans rule). With permission they can stay in Rabona without having to worry about anyone running to fetch the org, or asking them to leave with sharp pointy weapons. The benefit the city gets is that they have *free* added insurance from yoma, and they don't have to pay for the extermination of the very powerful AB that Miria and the ghosts left smeared across a large area.

Miria's success at being allowed to stay in Rabona may be down to Clare's association with Father Vincent. As he had to say to Galatea, it's a debt they cannot repay.

[revan5]

Originally Posted by Sleepy Speculator

Don't want to pop your bubble, but; i think Miria was merely negotiating for asylum. Rabona is still known as a city that prohibits the super-unnatural and claymores are well unnatural demonic hybrids. To successfully hide 7 (9 with Clarice/Miata) blonde bombshells with silver eyes and no access to suppressent pills is quite frankly not gonna happen. Galatea had to blind herself in order to get away with it, and she's one person alone.

So the only way to stay there is with permission, she's not gonna take over, and she has no interest in fighting, doing so would merely draw the org and retribution (the no killing humans rule). With permission they can stay in Rabona without having to worry about anyone running to fetch the org, or asking them to leave with sharp pointy weapons. The benefit the city gets is that they have *free* added insurance from yoma, and they don't have to pay for the extermination of the very powerful AB that Miria and the ghosts left smeared across a large area.

Miria's success at being allowed to stay in Rabona may be down to Clare's association with Father Vincent. As he had to say to Galatea, it's a debt they cannot repay.

I was just having some fun speculating. Asylum or not, the Ghosts do seem to be acting as Rabona's military protectors. (As Miria's interaction with Dietrich shows)

I would hazard a guess that the Org might attempt to draw the Ghosts out (and retribute against the humans who allowed them to stay) by setting the Abyss Feeders loose on Rabona. If the Ghosts fend it off, the chances of them not just being granted asylum but some sort of military alliance and/or command of Rabona's forces becomes much greater.

[Ryuken]

The Org must have an idea about the Ghosts by now.

[Defiled one]

I don`t expect the happy ending.

One of them is going to awaken and that is something I´ll take for a fact. Either is Clare, Miria, Helen or Deneve it´s certain someone is gonna crack. The whole revenge might be fullfilled by Clare, or she might die....It´s not really important considering how vast Yagi made it. This could be a manga trilogy.

Nevertheless, what can they do? Stop the war? pft...don´t make me laugh. Powerlevels do nothing, you can be killed, you can get a beating if they come at you with several warriors, wadawada....

What I´m saying is that their powers, compared with the whole world....are nothing. They`re just lucky the Org doesn`t want their "heads"

[iLney]

Drama: Raki is kidnapped by the Org and is turned into an AB.

[Traun]

Originally Posted by iLney

Drama: Raki is kidnapped by the Org and is turned into an AB.

No, I think Raki is there to say "It's all right" when Clare awakens, and to help her keep her humanity after that.

[Cyclone]

Originally Posted by revan5

That answer matters when we start talking about Claire & Raki having children. Claymores having children, by the way Negativedark, was already something Helen mentioned (Chapter 25 page 23). Helen: "Oh, you brought a child? It can't be your own...so you picked up a stray on the road. Will he help us fight?"
Claire: "He'll stay in town. I'm going to find him an inn."
Helen: "Heh, I see. So he's your plaything?" (snickering)
Claire swings her sword at Helen.

The basic logic of what Helen said is that Claire could not have produced a child of her own, as she is inferring that female Claymores are barren/infertile (most likely due to the surgery that made them into Claymores). I have no idea if partially awakening changes that, but for the moment children between the two seems unlikely.

Lost a message I was typing for 20 min - due to the crappy browser... *sigh*
Readers digest version then:

Helen did not say "you cannot have children", she said "it can't be", as in "surely not".
Helen said: "temee no gaki tte wakyanee darou kara"
darou is used to imply uncertainty in a statement.

There are other factors other than infertility that would cause such a statement:
- Raki is too old to be the child of the youngest of the ghosts.
- No claymore would want to bring up a child into the world they live in, where every other mission can be your last. Child Welfare Services would be on them in a second if they even considered taking children on youma and AB hunts.
- Claymores are typically treated as if they had leprosy. Raki is the exception, rather than the rule. I imagine that despite being drop dead gorgeous, most Claymores would have trouble finding anyone to talk to, let alone sleep with.

I just don't consider Helen's statement to have anything to do with infertility.

[Vinak]

Originally Posted by Arturro

Clouded is your mind, young Vinak

Just try to forget Raki from anime and re-read manga with a fresh look at him. In manga his actions in Rabona (Ravenna/Lawona?) as well as his fight with Ophelia put him in a good light. In anime he was just crying, squeaking ... something.

I've read the manga several times already. I still find him completely useless and annoying

[revan5]

Originally Posted by Cyclone

Lost a message I was typing for 20 min - due to the crappy browser... *sigh*
Readers digest version then:

Helen did not say "you cannot have children", she said "it can't be", as in "surely not".
Helen said: "temee no gaki tte wakyanee darou kara"
darou is used to imply uncertainty in a statement.

There are other factors other than infertility that would cause such a statement:
- Raki is too old to be the child of the youngest of the ghosts.
- No claymore would want to bring up a child into the world they live in, where every other mission can be your last. Child Welfare Services would be on them in a second if they even considered taking children on youma and AB hunts.
- Claymores are typically treated as if they had leprosy. Raki is the exception, rather than the rule. I imagine that despite being drop dead gorgeous, most Claymores would have trouble finding anyone to talk to, let alone sleep with.

I just don't consider Helen's statement to have anything to do with infertility.

Ah, that is very interesting. However, I think the more entertaining nature of what you're talking about is that Claire may in fact be capable of bearing children. Can you imagine Claire as a mother?

Little Teresa is nagging her father to bring mom along on a trip with them.
Raki: "Teresa dear, your mother isn't in a good mood today."
Little Teresa: "Dad, you walked in on mom when she didn't have her belly covered, didn't you?"
Raki: "Claire, what have you been telling our children?!?"

[Negativedark]

Damn it, no downer ending, this isn't film in the 70's!


Come to think of it, are shonen manga even allowed to have downer ending?

Granted though, I'll be damn pleasently surprised if all the ghosts get out of this alive.

[Ryuken]

That's not possible, although it's probable.

[hell88]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

This certainly brings my hopes up a bit for an happy ending.

I wonder if the Org scarrs them on purpose just to avoid little hybrids running around. It wouldn't make much sense tough

I think we have talked about this before, I don't think the scars would have anything to do with that. It would have more to do with the org taking away their abilities to get pregnant, like tying their tubes.

Oh and before someone asks something stupid, "like can they still orgasm?" I'd like to note that it is a fact that when someone is fixed like that rather it be a man or woman, they can still have orgasms.

[necrosis6]

I think we have talked about this before, I don't think the scars would have anything to do with that. It would have more to do with the org taking away their abilities to get pregnant, like tying their tubes.

Oh and before someone asks something stupid, "like can they still orgasm?" I'd like to note that it is a fact that when someone is fixed like that rather it be a man or woman, they can still have orgasms.

Claymores and love don't usually mix is my guess. Given that sexual pleasure is linked with awakening means that Claymores are probably too scared to ever get that deep into a relationship, if anyone would even have them. It's quite possible that the only reason that Raki/Clare are still a pair is because they're separated so they have no chance to get more intimate and the love can stay more in the mind than the flesh. I'm 100% sure that if Claymore's could become pregnant that the org has already done that test and since we don't see children running about, it was a failure. I just don't see a Claymore having a normal/yuri love relationship since pleasure=awakening.

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by hell88

I think we have talked about this before, I don't think the scars would have anything to do with that. It would have more to do with the org taking away their abilities to get pregnant, like tying their tubes.

Oh and before someone asks something stupid, "like can they still orgasm?" I'd like to note that it is a fact that when someone is fixed like that rather it be a man or woman, they can still have orgasms.

I still fail to see why would the Org take away the ability to get pregnant.

First, there are few guys who would sleep with a Claymore because of that really ugly scar on the stomach.
A bunch of rapists not touching Teresa because of a scar, seriously, how bad can a scar look? So, the chances of on them ever getting prenant are slim.

And even if one of them forgotted to take the pill, she would be just sent on suicide missions. Hey, there are always Awakened Beings to kill, right? Why should they have the trouble of tying their tubes?

I agree that Claymores can have orgasms. It's just dangerous because they could Awaken in the process. So, there is the possibility that the Org cuts the organ that gives pleasure to a woman to avoid the risk.
Still, I don't think that even the Org would go that far. That's basically mutilation.

[hell88]

Everything the org does is mutilation.

I don't know what else to say, I have said why many times the org does it to their warriors. They simply don't want any of the girls getting pregnant and having a child because then that would be an unknown hybrid to them that could become a problem when it grows older, such as awakening.

I don't think they cut the organ, how else would they know what pleasure feels like when they start to awaken? Tying their tubes is the simplest way of doing it, but yeah they might just remove the whole organ that will eventually produce the eggs later on when they start to mature.

[Vinak]

not sure where you guys got the whole pleasure = awakening myth.

awakening = pleasure. as a claymore warrior reaches his/her limit, the flow of yoki feels pleasureful, period.

pleasure does not cause awakening in itself. at least it has never been stated to do so. unless you guys think a claymore releases yoki during intercourse, which I highly doubt. then their really is no risk involved with sex for a claymore warrior.

lucky bastards can expel "toxins" from their bodies so they don't have to worry about all them stds and unwanted pregnancies. talk about having your cake and eating it too.

[Cyclone]

Originally Posted by necrosis6

Claymores and love don't usually mix is my guess. Given that sexual pleasure is linked with awakening means that Claymores are probably too scared to ever get that deep into a relationship, if anyone would even have them. It's quite possible that the only reason that Raki/Clare are still a pair is because they're separated so they have no chance to get more intimate and the love can stay more in the mind than the flesh. I'm 100% sure that if Claymore's could become pregnant that the org has already done that test and since we don't see children running about, it was a failure. I just don't see a Claymore having a normal/yuri love relationship since pleasure=awakening.

How do you know we haven't seen children of Claymores running about? We still have had no explanation for what exactly Miata is (and where she got her heightened senses)... I imagine it would not be a common experiment though (taking a warrior out of commision basically for 9 months and all).

Now that I think about it though, Miata's heightened senses are very similar to the ZACS though...
You think it's possible that Miata is a ZACS that did not quickly lose her mind like the rest and managed to remain a claymore? Dietrich says that after inserting the AB flesh they lose their minds. What if one of them didn't... completely anyways. It would explain some of Miata's abilities though.

[Sordes Pilosus]

Comaring Awakening to Pleasure is foolish because they share no simular traits at all. If you want to compare anything to Awakening it has to be Adrenaline, awakening process is very much like an adrenaline rush, you are aware of all that happends and you generaly dont like it and fight against it, If it was pure pleasure one would not do that. The reason why men awakens so much easier can also be traced back to the same comparison. Men have a higher increase of adrenaline in their systems meaning we tend to get easier "addicted" things like roalercoaster's or extreme sports. Its a genetic thing and a distinct differance in (the very large majority of cases between men and women.) that can be used as a biological or gentic reason for why Females where more suitable as Claymore's.

However the link to the Pleasure aspect can be found "after" the awakening process. Its like sex, you pump up for the release and when it hits in it feals good, just to bad its a little to late after that to think for instance about not pregnating a woman, or in this case return to normal. It seams we really need a own discussion topic on the Awakening issue, most people here really seam clueless about the issue. The reason why for instance Helen is "closer to the men" goes with that again there are women that gets as easily addicted to Extreme Sports etc as men, just in much fewer numbers.

So please guys, try to look into awakening and what it does, and then i mean all its forms: Non Awakened, Partical Awakening, Half Awakening, Soul Link Awakening and normal Awakening. And also what differs in affects of awakening like willing awakening and non willing all these cause different situations or paramaters that needs to be considered in the awakening process. But not in 1 case is the awakening process actualy the pleasure point. Get that fact straight.

[Vinak]

@Sordes Pilosus
adrenaline rushes can be very pleasurable, btw. which is the very reason why "adrenaline junkies" of both sexes exist in our world. It can be described as the "natural high"

Spoiler for 1:

Spoiler for 2:

the act of releasing ones yoki causes a sensation similar to pleasure, women in the claymore universe can simply resist the urge. Again, this has nothing to do with sexual stimulation.

how exactly did sex become a topic of discussion? and how did it become linked to awakening?

[Cyclone]

Originally Posted by Sordes Pilosus

Comaring Awakening to Pleasure is foolish because they share no simular traits at all. If you want to compare anything to Awakening it has to be Adrenaline, awakening process is very much like an adrenaline rush, you are aware of all that happends and you generaly dont like it and fight against it, If it was pure pleasure one would not do that. The reason why men awakens so much easier can also be traced back to the same comparison. Men have a higher increase of adrenaline in their systems meaning we tend to get easier "addicted" things like roalercoaster's or extreme sports. Its a genetic thing and a distinct differance in (the very large majority of cases between men and women.) that can be used as a biological or gentic reason for why Females where more suitable as Claymore's.

However the link to the Pleasure aspect can be found "after" the awakening process. Its like sex, you pump up for the release and when it hits in it feals good, just to bad its a little to late after that to think for instance about not pregnating a woman, or in this case return to normal. It seams we really need a own discussion topic on the Awakening issue, most people here really seam clueless about the issue. The reason why for instance Helen is "closer to the men" goes with that again there are women that gets as easily addicted to Extreme Sports etc as men, just in much fewer numbers.

So please guys, try to look into awakening and what it does, and then i mean all its forms: Non Awakened, Partical Awakening, Half Awakening, Soul Link Awakening and normal Awakening. And also what differs in affects of awakening like willing awakening and non willing all these cause different situations or paramaters that needs to be considered in the awakening process. But not in 1 case is the awakening process actualy the pleasure point. Get that fact straight.

I'd personally say the people who are clueless are those who don't base their opinions from the manga and just go on making up their own theories on stuff like adrenaline (not mentioning any names of course...).

There are several quotes in the manga tying the process of awakening to pleasure. There has not been a single one about adrenaline.

chapter 24, Priscilla:
"It feels incredible"

chapter 27, Miria:
"In a sense, awakening is much like pleasure. When a male releases his youma power, he can't suppress the urge to awaken"

chapter 29, Clare herself describes it as:
"I felt a rush of suffering and ecstasy."

chapter 29, Helen:
"I got carried away and lost control. The impulse to awaken was too strong, just like it was for the males."

chapter 37, Ophelia:
"What is this? This pleasant feeling... The pain I had until yesterday seems like a dream. Now it feels... so good..."

and finally by Deneve in chapter 55:
"There is no doubt the feeling of approaching the limit is terrifying. The desire for power, the craving for blood... combined with lust boiling over throughout your entire body. An instant in which you feel the black knot of ugly emotions... hidden deep inside you."

--

So, it seems quite clear that awakening is more and S&M experience, than any adrenaline rush. Please, in the future, before you assume we are idiots, realize your own potential fallibility, double check your facts, and give us some credit for being some serious Claymore geeks who can quote chapter and verse - so please "get that fact straight".