Claymore Chapter 92

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

I think the thing I hated most about the Anime ending was that poor dying Jean had to walk miles and miles to that dumb volcano, suffering all the while, just so she could bring back Clare from awakening. Well besides that, they ruined two of the coolest death scenes.

Wich ones?

Rigardo and?

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by revan5

Yagi I thought mentioned that he wanted the series to end around the 25th volume. My guess is that, since Volume 16 only was just released in Japan, that we're a ways away from the end. I expect at least a year of non-stop fight scenes intermixed with various memories flooding Claire's head.

Only problem is: plans change, many Manga have Rushed endings because they were finished earlier than planned, and the current Economy -- Japan being especially hard hit -- can't be a good thing.

[Sleepy Speculator]

@revan5

Well like i say on my signature it's all speculation, but we've now seen Clare with the spirits of Teresa, Jean and Raphealla.

Teresa 'awakened' inside Clare in Rabona, and not long after, like 2 hunts later Clare's got some nifty sensing ability, but the ability maybe isn't just inherited but actually part of Teresa, that Clare carries with her. Jean died by releasing and aligning her yoki with Clare and relying on Clare to fine tune that alignment. The result was she died from the lethal wound, and Clare was suppressed back to a normal claymore. Yet... who do we see in this chapter formed in Clare's mind, and with Raphealla we see in her last moments a massive outporing of yoki, which is shown being given/forced into Clare, much as Jean forced the suppression.

So when i say Clare as a hybrid wasn't a very good sensor i mean pre-rabona. In which it seems that she's hunting using smell, and yoki release.

As for the Miria comment, i didn't say on this occasion that she was 'evil', even though people would get unreasonably upset over that. So like i said it could be almost anything, i mean Teresa was no saint (oh-oh 2 fanclubs alienated i might as well take a pot at Galatea as well), the mistake could very well be taking Teresa as a donor material, or ordering noodles for lunch, the possibilities are endless.

Of course the most obvious mistake would be the 'awakening' of that freaky coffee table as if Clare planned it...

[Arkham]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

I think the thing I hated most about the Anime ending was that poor dying Jean had to walk miles and miles to that dumb volcano, suffering all the while, just so she could bring back Clare from awakening.

Yea,and she had to carry Raki too

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Originally Posted by MisterJB

Wich ones?

Rigardo and?

Rigaldo and Jean's. I don't remember if she died, hanging off one one of Clare's appendages in the Anime, but the Volcano probably would've ruined the moment if she did. Jean was supposed to die there right after rigaldo, not limp an impossible distance just because someone is trying to piece together an ending with Prissy as the final boss. Rigaldo's Death and Jean's Death are two of the most memorable moments in the manga, not something to mess with and mess up.

[Miles Teg]

Originally Posted by Solace

I'm waiting for the FrankenClare picture to pop up.

Something like that

http://bootleg.deviantart.com/art/Cl...stein-76229365

[Gangsta Spanksta]

How come people are excluding Irene from being one of the spirits living within Clare? Nobody mentioned this yet, but Irene got avenged by her arm and move in this chapter.

[MisterJB]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

Rigaldo and Jean's. I don't remember if she died, hanging off one one of Clare's appendages in the Anime, but the Volcano probably would've ruined the moment if she did. Jean was supposed to die there right after rigaldo, not limp an impossible distance just because someone is trying to piece together an ending with Prissy as the final boss. Rigaldo's Death and Jean's Death are two of the most memorable moments in the manga, not something to mess with and mess up.

Well, Rigardo was really ruined. For one of the coolest ABs in this manga to fall to a simple quicksword was a shame but Jean was basically the same.
The only problem is that the anime gave us the impression that she could have survived the wound if she hadn't to walk in the frozen plains of Alphonse while carrying a brat on her back.

I BLAME RAKI!

At any rate, the voice actings during Jean's death and Rigardo's appearing are easily the bests in the anime

[Gangsta Spanksta]

What makes Jeans death so great is how Clare has an emotional break down and cries. It really shows on some MMV about the scene if you watch them. It took some words from Deneve to get Clare focused back on reality. That part of the manga was really some of Yagi's best work and the wrong place to splice.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Anyway, a bit on who's coming and who's not. Obviously, Helen and Deneve will figure that anwhere where there is a huge awakening occuring is where Clare is at and all her fault too. Alicia didn't head back to the east like some people believe. Reporting to the org just means finding an MiB in the West. Raki and Prissy are *not* going to show, because that would make Rene's existence completely irrelevant. Her sole purpose is to inform Clare of Raki's wellbeing. That means that somehow, Rene will have to get back into the picture here. She is probably going to run into Cynthia and Yuma is my guess. I don't know if Dietrich is heading back to Helen and Deneve to meet Clare or not. I am still hoping she is the scruffy girl at the Teresa and Clare statute. Miria and Co., surely after Dietrich they should be on the move for the town's sake.

[Shiek927]

Alicia didn't head back to the east like some people believe. Reporting to the org just means finding an MiB in the West.

I only said that because of what the map says, I map I still find questionable because of that.

Out of everyone who's bound to come and we're bound to see first are: Riful, followed by Cynthia and Yuma, followed by Alicia&AE's\Miria's group(depending on where Alicia is), and when this is all over, Raki and Priscilla.

Yes, Raki and Priscilla showing up anytime before Renee talks to Claire makes Renee completely pointless, regardless of her being used by Riful.

Oh, and MisterJB, your new avatar is priceless

[Gangsta Spanksta]

I think y'all are viewing the location on the map the wrong way. I don't see the map as showing location for a single time frame. I think of the locations on the map, representing different times, for important events that have happened in the story. Helen and Deneve point is where they faught Isley at. Alicia and Beth show the Orgs HQ before they took off towards the west. Clare and Co. are obviously more around the current time.

Support? A bit of logic. Ask yourself: why the heck would you care about a map that represents everyone current location for this particular point in the story? Isn't such a map useless? It's not like we are playing a video game or anything. No, A more useful map would be one that shows us where the org's HQ is, where Riful base is, where the town that Isley died is, Where the great holy city is at, and where the town that this story started out is at. Us fans are much more interested in these places than character location given a timeframe.

[Casshern]

Just read c92. Damn...

You can never get enough Claymore

[Awakened]

Originally Posted by Sleepy Speculator

Man that chapter had lots of hidden imagery and repeated themes, it's like watching shaun of the dead for the third time and realising his idea of improving his life was switching from coke to diet coke or the fact that the earlier drinking plans are the plot to the film..

Well i been reading the whole 'powerup' and 'what is the mistake?' argument and i think i got a couple of ideas.

Raphealla killed Luciella, and the merged body because of that can only support one living entity, and that is the soul of Luciella that Raphealla has been carrying for so long. She uses her own life force and memories to rebuild her sister, leaving herself a dying shell. In essence Luciella died when Raphealla killed her and was resurrected at the expense of Raphealla's own life.

Clare 'intruding' however probably came about because she used Teresa's inherited ability to scan for yoki. Clare as a hybrid couldn't sense v.well at all. And so the ambiguousness of Raphealla's words regarding there being two of her.

In the recreation of the original encounter Clare can sense the presence of Raphealla, and Jean who is a long time dead is with her, not in a tatered cloak but in full claymore armor. So when Jean says 'which one of you is Clare' and Jean is no longer visible it has some disturbing connotations.

Is Jean still with Clare due to the yoki burst before she died? Or is Raphealla asking who she's talking to inside Clare? (Teresa). Something re-inforced by Raphealla stating 'what's wrong there was never anybody standing there'.

Then in the fight Raphealla says 'not enough, not nearly enough' in an almost copy of Clare's own words from fighting Rigaldo, it's a taunt to get Clare to release yoki, as at the time in the fight Clare was using windcutter and no yoki.

And then we see the 'your'e making a very large mistake' comment. Which quite frankly could be almost anything. Personally i think the mistake is either with regards to Teresa or with regards to the perceived notion that the org is the enemy. Or maybe that Miria isn't what she seems.

I don't think Raphella is worried about her new consicousness 'awakening' as i think most of what she's done was a ploy to save her sister and prevent there being a monster. But as a #2 who was trained in soul link, and with Clare having not accessed the memories of the former #1 Teresa i get the feeling there's an info dump that Clare at her current power really should know about.

It's only once Clare releases her yoki, and defeats the shadow of Raphealla that we see Rapheallas 'gift' to Clare of her memories her emotions for want of a better word her 'spirit/soul'. ('this is everything that i possess') And having given her body to her sister what does Raphealla have left? This is the soul link...

Raphealla couldn't soul link with Clare because Clare didn't release her yoki. Raphealla said that it was Clare that intruded, but Clare had no intention... The way i see this as happening is Teresa instigated the soul link with Raphealla, placing Clare in the soul link, but Raphealla can't actively link with Clare 'because' her yoki is cloaked, so she forces Clare to release her yoki, allowing for two way alignment.

To back this up, notice how Cynthia talks as if Clare v.briefly released her yoki before what they begin to sense.

In a sense Clare is CT and Raphealla/Luciella RL or should i say

Clare = CT comes across RL, uses the T aspect to scan creating the tenuous... link pattern C/T-R/L. C and R are in contact but not linked, and by releasing her yoki the following chain exists... T/C-R/L of course because only 2 of them can be alive...

C/t - Clare carrying Teresa and Raphealla carrying Luciella in a swap becomes
R/l ---> L/r

Leaving in the soul link t/C-r/L and the final entities...
C/t/r - L/r (the little r is to show that both carry a remnant of the original personality R.)

To add to the confusion it's likely that Jean is carried with Clare as well, due to the botched soul link.

C/t/j/r, Ilena doesn't count because she gave an arm and technique, not her spirit, Flora's technique was duplicated, Ophelia entrusted her will etc.

I like your theory.
I would think that the last thing Rafaela would want is to awaken, but she did not seem to care that she was about too. She did not even ask Clare to kill her awakened body.
You might be right, Rafaela planed to die and let her sister live, She might have even figured out the secret of awakening without eatting guts.
I say that because, If her sister awaken and goes out of control then all Rafaela's effort would be in vain.

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

I think y'all are viewing the location on the map the wrong way. I don't see the map as showing location for a single time frame. I think of the locations on the map, representing different times, for important events that have happened in the story. Helen and Deneve point is where they faught Isley at. Alicia and Beth show the Orgs HQ before they took off towards the west. Clare and Co. are obviously more around the current time.

Support? A bit of logic. Ask yourself: why the heck would you care about a map that represents everyone current location for this particular point in the story? Isn't such a map useless? It's not like we are playing a video game or anything. No, A more useful map would be one that shows us where the org's HQ is, where Riful base is, where the town that Isley died is, Where the great holy city is at, and where the town that this story started out is at. Us fans are much more interested in these places than character location given a timeframe.

Meh, I guess, but could you blame people for seeing it that way?

I mean, it's a map after a specific chapter. Surely the first thought to cross your mind was, "this is where everybody is right now". Since we can't understand any of the words written on it, it's the first assumption to assume that it represents everyone's current location. I mean, we already KNEW where Rabona and the Staff HQ was from previous maps we've seen(specifically the DS Game map which is probably the best thing to come out for it). After all, it's not like this is the first map we've ever seen.




Ya see? This map gives us the locations of various sites across the island too, and even more detailed with showing the physical geography. Shoot, this map even shows us where Irene's secluded hut was! Really, the only thing it doesn't show is where everybody was at that precise moment.

From what I remember, the names of the various lands are: Northern icy regions of Alphonse, Mountainous Eastern regions of Sutafu, Southern desert\rainforest region(Musha?), Temperate central plains of Tudolouse(sp), Western forest hills of Lautrec. Then of course, the various places of importance: The towns, Staff HQ, Pieta, Doga Plains(Raki's home), Southern region of Musha(Priscilla's home), the city-state of Rabona, Riful's castles, the specifically named mountains and plateaus etc...

Looking at both maps, it's not inconsistant. Rabona is basically in the exact same spot; Riful's base is in the northern part, in the forested region near that mountain(again, consistant). Staff HQ is in the far East where it's always been....everything's consistant.

But I suppose what you say makes sense

[Ryuken]

Originally Posted by Awakened

I like your theory.
I would think that the last thing Rafaela would want is to awaken, but she did not seem to care that she was about too. She did not even ask Clare to kill her awakened body.
You might be right, Rafaela planed to die and let her sister live, She might have even figured out the secret of awakening without eatting guts.
I say that because, If her sister awaken and goes out of control then all Rafaela's effort would be in vain.

I think what you say about Rafa wanting to save her sister is very very true indeed, she must have somehow known that Clare had enough power to finish the last of her conscious, although she acted as if she didn't know.

[Gangsta Spanksta]

Worst thing about the older map, it has a big volcano. Poor Jean had to carry Raki all the way over there?

[Sordes Pilosus]

Ok not read up on things yet so just posting this before i do while i stil remember it properly.

In this chapter there are really 3 Points worth looking deeper into. First is the fact that it was Clare that has been looking into Rafaella and not the other way around. Second is that there is a "big mistake" that Clare has been performing. And third, the awakening of what seams to be Rafaella.

Now, personaly, the mistake element is most interesting since it seams related to a Powerup or Big Story Devolopment for Clare. There have been many theories of Teresa stil being inside of Clare holding a vast amount of Youki at her disposal, this would seam to fit the story as Clare seams to gain a huge powerup each time she seams to be "down for the count". Her devolopment as a whole now even not releasing Youki and being pretty much on Par with Miria does suggest there are alot inside of Clare stil waiting to come out. Now if we look at the powerup posibility then Soul Link is the first that comes to mind. But who would Clare Soul Link with ? Its not like Soul Linking with the possibily now awakened Rafaella seams the best choice. Clare and her Pet Abyssal One. It sounds.. a little off as the power itself would not be in Clare. The most likly and perhaps interesting posibility is a Soul Link with herself. Or more accurate a Soul link with the Teresa inside of her allowing Clare to unlock all her inner potensial, perhaps even awaken without losing her humanity, or having the weakpoint of Alicia and Beth. However if its a Story devolopment, its likly related to Rubel, and might be the information that binds Claymore for its final chapters. Any opinions on this ?

[Shiek927]

Originally Posted by Gangsta Spanksta

Worst thing about the older map, it has a big volcano. Poor Jean had to carry Raki all the way over there?

Yes yes, I know it conjures up bad memories of the anime

I get the feeling that map was partially based off of it. Still, volcanoes are cool, and can actually exist in frozen areas believe it or not. Doubt the manga is ever going to reach there anyway.

[MalakTawus]

Originally Posted by Sordes Pilosus

Ok not read up on things yet so just posting this before i do while i stil remember it properly.

In this chapter there are really 3 Points worth looking deeper into. First is the fact that it was Clare that has been looking into Rafaella and not the other way around. Second is that there is a "big mistake" that Clare has been performing. And third, the awakening of what seams to be Rafaella.

Now, personaly, the mistake element is most interesting since it seams related to a Powerup or Big Story Devolopment for Clare. There have been many theories of Teresa stil being inside of Clare holding a vast amount of Youki at her disposal, this would seam to fit the story as Clare seams to gain a huge powerup each time she seams to be "down for the count". Her devolopment as a whole now even not releasing Youki and being pretty much on Par with Miria does suggest there are alot inside of Clare stil waiting to come out. Now if we look at the powerup posibility then Soul Link is the first that comes to mind. But who would Clare Soul Link with ? Its not like Soul Linking with the possibily now awakened Rafaella seams the best choice. Clare and her Pet Abyssal One. It sounds.. a little off as the power itself would not be in Clare. The most likly and perhaps interesting posibility is a Soul Link with herself. Or more accurate a Soul link with the Teresa inside of her allowing Clare to unlock all her inner potensial, perhaps even awaken without losing her humanity, or having the weakpoint of Alicia and Beth. However if its a Story devolopment, its likly related to Rubel, and might be the information that binds Claymore for its final chapters. Any opinions on this ?

Wow!Your theory is almost identical to mine!!!
.....even if i don't think we are near the end of Claymore.......