Macross Delta - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Saint X

It is possible that Fold Quartz Tech (that allows almost instant communication and travel) is still bring propagated and not all have it.

Communications in Macross is already instantaneous, Fold Quartz however, ignores Fold Faults without having to go around them. It also makes fold 10x faster, according to Luca.

Originally Posted by Maverick05

Second, personally I don't think NUNS has become benevolent. Simply, it has become too huge and decentralized that the decision-making time is too big.

Actually, decision-making time under a unified UNS was simply too long that colonies decentralized in order to become more efficient.

Militarily, the NUNS provides escort and military-attaches onboard colonial fleets. These individuals advise and oversee military developments.

- Tak

[DragoonKain3]

Lol you know an anime has you in its grips when you keep refreshing a certain site at a certain time, just so you can get the episode as soon as could get it. Man I haven't done this in ages...

Max and Millia in HD? I know I'm being greedy here, but couldn't they have been animated or something? XD

Is that Freyja also giving Mirage and Hayate her blessing? Like what, you got these two people having UST right in front of you, and you just smile and laugh about it? Seems like they're going more into a friendly triangle more than a combative one, which I personally feel a bit disappointed about. Oh well, the other love polygon doesn't looks to be as harmonious, though it was lacking in this episode.

No new song, but hey, at least we got Freyja dancing to her own song. Still, I wanted the whole song at least, but I guess being interrupted mid-song is them being true to the Saturn Ring date in DYRL. :'(

I find it funny too that Messer was going to rat out Freyja to Kaname, when all along the Walkure were already spying on the 'spy'. Heck, by the looks of it, the Walkure actually LET the two have their flying date just to get more info about Freyja's singing abilities, so I find it humorous that Messer doesn't know how empty his threats were.

Overall, I found that this was too much infodump to really enjoy the episode. At least they have connected the captain and the commander to the dying king, that the previous White Knight is probably Master Helmmann, that Freyja is under suspicion by the entire side of the federation, that Mirage probably has inferiority complex due to how great her grandparents were, and of course the reasons why Freyja and Hayate are staying with the Walkure/Delta platoon. Still, that's a HECK of a lot of info to give us in one episode that I can't help but feel that they should have at least given us two, but it looks like they want to alternate between action and non-action every episode.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Some things are made clear. Brisingr refers to the star cluster where Windermere, Ragna and possibly other Sub-Protoculture worlds are located.
While Roid cites unequal treaty and monopoly of profits the real reason is that Windermere wants to prove they are the legitimate heir of the Protoculture not humans. Which is funny because the AI recognized Earthers due to their hybrid Mylene.
Also as pointed out by Roid the strategy they are doing has flaws as it is detrimental to Heinz's health. Again Keith points out they are running out of time.
A ceasefire between the NUN and Windermere happened when the later used a dimensional weapon that cause a dimensional barrier on the planet.

My guess is that they fraked-up that Windermere has little time to survive. Hence these invasions. They are too prideful to ask for NUN help.

Hayate has a Fold Receptor Factor somewhat thanks to his Fold Quartz. All the Walkure and he agree they heard somebody. In Hayate's case he felt it.

Freyja relates to a Windermeran legend of Wind Singer that is able to project across light years and dimensions. This has happened before namely Basara Nekki and Emilia Jenius. Mirage doesn't have the talent it seems unlike her aunts Mylene and Emilia. As Kaname said there is a mentality factor involved in the ability. Mirage needs to learn how to feel not think too much.

[Tak]

It is also interesting Windermere had to fight a war of independence, which, under the NUNS, may be just a tad redundant.

But we will have to see why.

Nonetheless, these guys are just barely building a domain. With only 2 planets down, they want to challenge the NUNS for control of the entire sector. Wow, just... wow.

- Tak

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

While Roid cites unequal treaty and monopoly of profits the real reason is that Windermere wants to prove they are the legitimate heir of the Protoculture not humans.

Their war for independence 7 years ago was most likely caused by economical reasons, as Roid said. This new war probably has a more complex reason we will learn about later on. The legitimate hair thing is probably just a matter of speech. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't go to war for something like that.

[AkitoW013]

I hope we'll see the consequences of their little tantrum biting them in their ass.

I bet Roid has some ulterior motives behind this "war".

[Ascaloth]

Wow, I literally could not stop replaying the Immelmann Dance scene in this episode. Paired with the upbeat ED song, it was just tonnes of fun watching Hayate pull moves with the Siegfried that really should have been associated more with Alto-hime.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Their war for independence 7 years ago was most likely caused by economical reasons, as Roid said. This new war probably has a more complex reason we will learn about later on. The legitimate hair thing is probably just a matter of speech. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't go to war for something like that.

I wouldn't put it past them to believe their own hype. They have short time to live after all. The other reason being they may have accidentally doomed their planet.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

I wouldn't put it past them to believe their own hype.

I'd say you're jumping to conclusions considering they haven't gotten more than 10 minutes of screentime in this 5 episodes. Let's just wait and see.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I'd say you're jumping to conclusions considering they haven't gotten more than 10 minutes of screentime in this 5 episodes. Let's just wait and see.

Roid practically said they are the heirs of the Protoculture and it is their right to guide the races in the Brisingr cluster to their way.

[Thess]

Kind of hilarious how so many were paralleling Hayate and Mirage as Max and Milia when Mirage just placed Freyja in Milia's role. Ouch. Mirage is finally becoming a character on her own but IMO she's still the weak link of the cast. She can't stand out very well when Messer is the one who actually motivates Hayate to get serious (which should have been Mirage's actual job).

Interesting episode. It does seem like Windermere are less of a bad guy and more the consequence of whatever shady deal the Galaxy Government is doing which doesn't excuse their actions but they are going to definitely get understanding while earthling politicians are going to get a missile.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by Thess

Interesting episode. It does seem like Windermere are less of a bad guy and more the consequence of whatever shady deal the Galaxy Government is doing which doesn't excuse their actions but they are going to definitely get understanding while earthling politicians are going to get a missile.

We the rightful heirs of the Protoculture will free the Brisingr cluster from those Earthers by conquering it through mind control and guiding the Children of the Protoculture to the right way... Our way.

[Thess]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

We the rightful heirs of the Protoculture will free the Brisingr cluster from those Earthers by conquering it through mind control and guiding the Children of the Protoculture to the right way... Our way.

That was Roid's motivation and that has nothing to do with Keith's very pragmatic approach about crushing the ones who subjugated them. Roid seems to have a Messianic complex, but he doesn't look like he's a bad person either. It's unsurprising that oppressed planets feel like they must rebel some imperialistic system. They way they are presented, they aren't actually put in a villainous light, but as victims who are fed up and are biting back. The point isn't to win the war but to stop the war, though. Both Hayate and Freyja are in the same wave about this. So is Mirage, I think, and Chuck.

[mickbis]

"The wind will surely blow and bring destruction upon the Earthling"
Something must happen to that King in the past...
for him to say something like "Destruction" here

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I'd say you're jumping to conclusions considering they haven't gotten more than 10 minutes of screentime in this 5 episodes. Let's just wait and see.

I honestly don't give a crap about their reasons, they still started a war of aggression by attacking two population centers and taking over people's minds so that they'd commit acts of terrorism. The Windermereans are in the wrong, no doubt about it.

---

As for the episode, Messer has apparently two sticks up his ass, not only one. Okay, so he probably is worrying himself about the effect Heinz singing has upon him, but still. Also, empty threats indeed. "Lady Kaname, Hayate and Freyja did an illegal flight!" "Yep. Wasn't it awesome?" "... I'm going now sulk, sir"

The whole "is Freyja a spy" thing was pretty subdued, I expected some outraged citizens threatening violence, to be honest.

The show really doesn't even care about doing a romance so far. That's okay, although I think it does make me care a little bit less than I did with Frontier.

It was a bit of a transitional episode, so that's pretty much all I came away with. More cameos, please!

[karice67]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

I honestly don't give a crap about their reasons, they still started a war of aggression by attacking two population centers and taking over people's minds so that they'd commit acts of terrorism. The Windermereans are in the wrong, no doubt about it.

There are a few interesting quotes by real-world leaders that apply here, but it's probably not a good idea for me to bring RL politics into this....so the following comment will have to do:

As someone else has said: "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."

=====

On another note, I've started listening to the radio show, and Minori Suzuki actually...laughs a lot like Freyja in real life

[Tenzen12]

White knights so far targeted only Valkure who possess only threat to their unconventional warfare. Civilians are not target, just your every day collateral damage. You should also remember that even American revolution started by act of terrorism.

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

Roid practically said they are the heirs of the Protoculture and it is their right to guide the races in the Brisingr cluster to their way.

It should be noted Loid doesn't show any inclination lead righteously as legitimate heir of proticolture any race past their own cluster. It's not about superiority, but heritage. Windermere are "legitimate heirs" of domain passed to them by protoculture. It doesn't mean Humans are less legitimate as long as their live on their own turf.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by karice67

There are a few interesting quotes by real-world leaders that apply here, but it's probably not a good idea for me to bring RL politics into this....so the following comment will have to do:

As someone else has said: "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter."

If your two first acts of war is attacking civilian populations, you are a terrorist. You may be calling yourself a "freedom fighter" but that is just window dressing for your own benefit.

[deadite]

Nah Windemerians are the natives of that sector. Spacy decided to just arrogantly change their destiny of their entire race. I mean its the same as conquistadors of the past. A more technologicaly advance forced muscling through primituve cultures because they can. natives lose cultural identity and when they fight back against the aliens why are you surprised? Its Windemerean terriotry not Spacy's. The intro of this ep make Macross fleet very menacing descending from the sky. thats why star trek has the prime directive to prevent stuff like this from happening.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

If your two first acts of war is attacking civilian populations, you are a terrorist. You may be calling yourself a "freedom fighter" but that is just window dressing for your own benefit.

I don't remember them ever attacking civilians without connection to military though.