2018-10-07, 11:55 | Link #121 | |
maybenotimome
Join Date: Feb 2011
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That overthinking can be something uplifting or upsetting depending on the person, and as predictions or analisys go, be accurate or not. It could maybe help the discussion over the guild to keep in mind that episode 1 didn't give a full introduction of how the guild actually works. So taking infos from episode 1 and treating it as definitive, would be premature. |
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2018-10-07, 12:17 | Link #123 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Portugal
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Well, goblins and magic were not a thing either. However, if those things did actually exist having guilds and quest-based systems would make sense. But then again, that is just one of the possible scenarios to deal with the situation
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2018-10-07, 12:28 | Link #124 | |||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild Quote:
By all practical means if a member of a guild did a very poor job it would tarnish the reputation of said guild, it wasn't really something they could let happen. This is different from what you usually see in fantasy settings with adventurer guilds, even though the whole idea of "guild" is indeed based on medieval trade and artisan guilds. Also, by the way, the first University was founded in 1088. Quote:
There are also Favored Souls that are the equivalent of Sorcerers for the healers. The downside of that is that while Mages and Clerics have a wide array of spells to choose from when they prepare them, Sorcerers and Favored Souls have only a few. It would seem that the main character in this story works like a Favored Soul.
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2018-10-07, 12:35 | Link #125 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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Not that it actually mattered to me. It could turn out to be the most well thought out system but still fall under the Fantastic Aesop pitfall, when trying to go for "brutal realism". Or maybe it'll be the next Madoka Magica. Who knows?
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2018-10-07, 12:37 | Link #126 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
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First episode really sets the tone of the anime. Glad it is faithful alot to the source material or near-close to the manga.
Those rookies were like lambs to the slaughter. Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer. The martial artist, another soul battered and broken,cast aside like a spent torch |
2018-10-07, 13:15 | Link #127 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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I'm curious about an example of your realistic system. |
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2018-10-07, 13:32 | Link #128 |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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I don't know. I don't think a "Adventurers guild/Quest-based economy system" could ever be convincing really. I made a point earlier about how limiting I think these RPG lifts can be to a story and how I don't think they belong anywhere outside a game (except maybe a parody).
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2018-10-07, 13:36 | Link #129 |
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Overconfidence looked like a pretty fast killer, there.
I'd say it still doesn't make sense. I could see a bounty placed on goblin heads, but mostly I'd expect the local lord to handle it like any other threat, with his own soldiers, and maybe his own specialists. |
2018-10-07, 14:15 | Link #130 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Portugal
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You can have both. Mercenaries would definitely be a thing if you could get precious materials from the monsters' body. Trying to legalize this business through a guild system could be a possibility. Having bounties to motivate these rogue warriors cleaning certain zones from problematic monsters is also viable. In the Witcher series you have soldiers that protect the villagers but you also have bounties or similar jobs given to mercenaries, especially to witchers, if the mission has high dificulty level since they were built to kill beasts in the first place. Games can have well thought stories and viable societies regarding this "what if" scenario about magic and monsters being a reality. It's not just a mechanic for the player to have fun since it can also be well assimilated into the game's lore.
In this link you can see a description of a game mechanic that usually makes no sense outside the gaming medium yet if you scroll down a bit and read the lore section, suddenly could be something used in a movie or tv series. |
2018-10-07, 14:27 | Link #131 | |
NOM
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Outside the Asylum
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I agree that building a world where the economics of adventuring makes sense is not easy, but it's certainly possible with meticulous consideration of racial balance/traits, availability of magic/items, and geography. I think most series just spare more or less effort describing these things depending on what stories they want to tell, and the audience pays more or less attention to these details depending on what kind of stories they like to see. One can fault the series for being lazy, or they can wait and see if this sacrifice is for a story that's worthwhile in its own way. I can imagine regions where a local lord would care, but also regions where maybe the lord doesn't want to deal with every request from one of his 500 villages. To the extent that there is law enforcement, they might only be used for extracting taxes, catching human crimes, protecting inner cities, etc, rather than entering dangerous areas to gather materials or slay beasts. Now it would be pretty bad for a local lord to not care at all about village girls getting kidnapped by goblins, but it's also possible for a request to the lord to dispatch soldiers to take time to get approved, so it would be faster to post a quest for adventurers rather than wait weeks to months for soldiers to arrive.
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2018-10-07, 14:41 | Link #132 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
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So guild look like a "Private military company"... Last edited by francescoG1; 2018-10-07 at 15:06. |
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2018-10-07, 14:56 | Link #133 | |
maybenotimome
Join Date: Feb 2011
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Though, most of the claims about the guild not making sense come from questions being raised without the effort to answer them. "There is no answer" or "plothole" have to be the most lazy answers to any question, or should be taken as "I'm unable to answer". Not even considering that some questions are just "made from spectators for the spectators", since most often stories don't have the time to fully develop everything, and it's up to the watchers and readers to fill the gaps. Is there a reason for why guilds send newbies to their likely death? There should be a reason. Could be A, B or C. Is that reason the most important thing in the story, will it get some focus? Probably not. An other issue which may be bothersome or misleading, is that this isn't a pure fantasy setting with some game-like elements added in, this is a game-like setting with some deviations toward freeform fantasy. I'm not sure if it would have been of any help to have the setting made clear into the serie descriptions. Probably not, as you already noted, few would have needed that being spelled out. I sort of agree on your old point that what was originally folklore had been translated into game lore and mechanics, and now some of those game elements are making their way back into story lores. Making them second grade derivatives, quite unoriginal, and making fantasy lore without game elements a bit more rare. In favor of recycled story elements it could be said that they make their use in making the works accessible to their intended audience, that is possibly people with more experience about gaming than about reading books. |
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2018-10-07, 15:16 | Link #135 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Basically it's a very good world building of a key point of Goblin Slayer. Knowledge is power. Goblins are weak, and nothing special in of itself. But those are half baked knowledge probably based on hearsay. They're weaker then children, dumb, and savage, true to their desires, and inferior equipment (at least on base evolution). Those are all truths, but... Basically in hindsight, if GS wasn't wrong in the head, he should have chosen the to become a adventurer instructor, or wondering priest or a government specialist that could have provided much more to society, but of course that would be boring. Noobs dying is well deserved, even if it was for plot reasons. It's a harsh reality GS paints in fantasy clothing. Adventures are suppose to be specialist, but some specialists they turned out to be. Of course there's a whole plot subtext here. People are serious forgetting a key issue here we can't say for spoiler reasons. [*SNIP*] Last edited by CrowKenobi; 2018-10-08 at 06:38. Reason: Please don't say that something can't be mentioned for spoiler reasons and then mention the spoiler! |
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2018-10-07, 15:18 | Link #136 | ||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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(Also, I don't think the problem of a single goblin nest would go all the way to a "lord of 500 villages". I'd expect something more local would be enough.) |
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2018-10-07, 15:24 | Link #137 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Portugal
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Well, yeah? Since we are talking about something that do not exist and never existed to begin with. So we can only guess and try to imagine a viable world with such characteristics. And my argument was also for Haak that thinks RPG mechanics can only make sense in a game.
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2018-10-07, 15:26 | Link #138 | |
Me, An Intellectual
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 33
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And in this instance I didn't really care about the plothole itself but the fact that the episode's tone of "brutal realism" is undermined by what seems like a plothole. To be fair, I will admit that I am getting ahead of myself considering it is only the first episode, but considering the receptionist got off scott free I don't have a lot of confidence in the story to deliver. Not that I was expecting it to anyway. I'm just here for the cheap violence really.
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2018-10-07, 15:33 | Link #139 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
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Kinda of mixed about the premiere. On one hand, I like a lot of the technical details such as atmosphere, the muted colors and animation. It sold did a good job of presenting Goblin Slayer as a seriously prepared hunter without him coming off as too single minded. However, I could done without the rapes, and urination scene which came across as tad fetishly with the framing. Overall dialogue between the Priest and GS was quite dry which is owed to script getting bogged by too many technical details/exposition about goblins and not enough natural dialogue.
I mean at end of the episode I don't see what she likes about him stick around so much. Yes he saved her, but neither really got to talk to each in a way that establish any kind of bond. It would have been nice at at least get some kind of internal monologue to draw from her about GS even if was just feeling relieved and her being too scared to go anywhere else without him. It just felt at end two people joined up because the plot said so and not some so of set acknowledge between each other. Hopefully, the interpersonal interactions improve next week and we get better sense of why she's hang around him. |
2018-10-07, 15:44 | Link #140 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
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Simple truth is, goblin's slayer's world can not talked about in parallel to our own world. We can not insert any obvious reasons and vice versa for basic plot reasons. |
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Tags |
disturbing content, fantasy, tragedy |
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