Danganronpa 3: Despair Arc - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Alpha Knight

See, this is why sometimes I think people have got selective memory. I just checked DR and SDR2 to see if I could find some of Junko's super anaytical performances.

And I didn't find anything. What instead I did find are things that fall in line with her character in the Despair arc.

She had always resorted to cheap tricks to induce despair. Never once she used direct action like talking into people's mindsets. Just create opportunities and telling lies.

DR: Amnesia, with motives such as threatening loved ones or telling secrets.
SDR2: Amnesia again, which had among one of the things that caused someone to start to kill a disease in the form of a computer virus (Mikan).

Junko has never persuaded anyone into believing her ideals. She doesn't use words to bring down others. In fact, if she were to use that, it would put her character at odds with what was established in the previous games.

Therefore her methods are totallly valid. Her meeting with Mitarai also explains how much later she came up with a method to erase memories.

For some of you it may feel cheap, but that is how the writers intended for it to be and you must accept it.

And you better not rebut this, else you would be going against what was established in the VN.

My problem isn't that she's using cheap tricks to get what she wants, but rather that the cheap tricks aren't her own. What would have happened if she had never met Mitarai? Her plan would have never progressed this far.

Now that I think about it, DR0 also revealed that the method to erase memories wasn't her own either, so I guess I should have seen that coming.

It might have been better to never explain how Junko managed to plunge the whole world into despair. It's something that is very unrealistic in the first place, there was no need to attempt to explain it. It was the premise of the series, so everybody just rolled with it and simply assumed Junko was some kind of super evil genius.

Originally Posted by omimon

He didn't misunderstand it. You got your facts wrong. It's class 77 that became Ultimate Despairs. Class 78 is the focus of the first game and the one Makoto Naegi is in.

Oh, that's right. I got the numbers wrong. My apologies to Alpha Knight.

So, Clas 77, then. On one hand, the reveal they were brainwashed (though it's not 100% certain yet) explains why Naegi was so keen on saving them, on the other, it makes them much more innocent than we were led to believe they were in DR2. I really liked the idea that a group of normal (albeit super talented) teenagers could become monsters under the right circumstances, and it was interesting to think Naegi's class could have also turned out that way.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Same, yeah. It takes a bit of shock away from the meaning of the revelation at the end of DR2, that these were guys who had the potential to actually, truly become evil. It's not even the fact that it wasn't Junko's own invention for me (her plan being along the lines of "well, I'll find someone whose skills I can leech off and wing it when the time comes" is remarkably Junko-ish), it's that it's just far too easy and automatic. It would have been more interesting to see what kind of twisted circumstances would lead each of them to give in to despair. Unknowingly feeding Tanaka his own pets, and only tell him later? Putting Sonia through an hyper-realistic government simulation where she realises no matter her choices there's always going to be someone who dies because of her choices? Temporarily turning Akane entirely paralysed from the head down and letting her slowly go crazy at her own impossibility to move?
...castrating Teru?

[MeoTwister5]

On one hand, my inner Schadenfreude would have wanted to really see just how each person breaks into utter despair.

On the other, brainwashing means that none of them are generally beyond actual hope of redemption at the end of SDR2 and beyond, with perhaps the exception of Hajime/Izuru.

It's a very conflicting feeling TBH. I can accept it going either way to some extent. One thing we should take note of however is that while Junko states that she wants to turn Class 77 into her Ultimate Despair, IIRC she never specifically states that it is just the students. The homeroom teacher is just as much a part of the class.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Kanon

My problem isn't that she's using cheap tricks to get what she wants, but rather that the cheap tricks aren't her own. What would have happened if she had never met Mitarai? Her plan would have never progressed this far.

Now that I think about it, DR0 also revealed that the method to erase memories wasn't her own either, so I guess I should have seen that coming.

Even super villains need henchmen and lieutenants and such. She's got Monaca Towa providing her with an infinite supply of Monokuma robots too.

Brainwashing (or conditioning) was already implied in DR0, it just kind of became stupid crazy effective with Mitarai's methods. I sort of thought when Mitarai ran away things were only partially done but I guess that wasn't the case.

I don't really have the same regard for SDR2 (or its cast) that some people do but I got to see Tsumiki become despair so I'm happy. Though I think there's a slippery slope if someone's favorite character is a little too receptive to despair. But there's still time for Junko to get pretty personal with Nanami at least; to what end I guess we'll see.

Speaking of Zero we're at the point where it absolutely has to overlap if we're ever going to get to the tragedy so I'm kind of guessing...

Spoiler for Monokuma maid:

Chisa is going to end up handling the majority of 77's conditioning process along with Mukuro.

[Homura7]

People who complain Kodaka went cheap with the brainwashing strategy, I have a message for you:

Spoiler for spoiler:

[Klashikari]

And the very same game states that:

Images

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

And to be frank, I don't believe Makoto has more knowledge about how Junko did that compared to Junko herself.

In my case, brainwashing isn't exactly that surprising, but by the means of a single video that is applied to anyone makes me question the process by itself. I personally expected Junko to brainwash people by exploiting their weaknesses as implied in the pic above.
That's why "merely just brainwashing" is quite disappointing compared to the description regarding Junko's up to now.

[Homura7]

The game also stated Izuru killed all the members of the Student Council.

Guess what happened in the end? Never trust Monokuma (Junko), she likes to tell lies.

[Klashikari]

The franchise is not exempt of retcon.

The fact Nagito and Izuru didn't remember their first encounter doesn't make any sense.
Even if we believe that Nagito's memories got screwed due to a possible despair process, there is no reason for Izuru to forget someone with as much luck as Nagito (he even commented that himself).

Also, Chiaki was always implied to be a character that never existed in the first place, that's why a lot of people were confused when Human Chiaki was introduced in despair arc. Otherwise, AI Chiaki would have made that important reference to a "human self" with all the discussion she had about "her brother and father".

[Batknight]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

The franchise is not exempt of retcon.

The fact Nagito and Izuru didn't remember their first encounter doesn't make any sense.
Even if we believe that Nagito's memories got screwed due to a possible despair process, there is no reason for Izuru to forget someone with as much luck as Nagito (he even commented that himself).

Also, Chiaki was always implied to be a character that never existed in the first place, that's why a lot of people were confused when Human Chiaki was introduced in despair arc. Otherwise, AI Chiaki would have made that important reference to a "human self" with all the discussion she had about "her brother and father".

I honestly don't think Izuru finds Nagito very interesting. Remember what he says about him in chapter 0? He basically calls everything about him boring (including his talent) so perhaps he just basically just doesn't bother remembering him. Also it's never explicitly stated Chiaki was or was not a real person in DR2. When Nagito asks Monokuma if he faked any of the student profiles, all we get is "what's wrong with that?" not exactly a straight answer. Also perhaps AI Chiaki was simply never told she was based off a real person. Anyways the anime isn't over yet so hopefully we get a clear answer on all of this.

[DMurphy]

Actually, wouldn't it have always made sense for AI Chiaki to be based off another person?

She was after all, a very similar AI to Alter Ego and AI Junko, both of whom were based off actual people.

[matt619]

Originally Posted by Kanon

My problem isn't that she's using cheap tricks to get what she wants, but rather that the cheap tricks aren't her own. What would have happened if she had never met Mitarai? Her plan would have never progressed this far.

Now that I think about it, DR0 also revealed that the method to erase memories wasn't her own either, so I guess I should have seen that coming.

actually Junko's original plan is to murder Izuru who is the symbol of hope, but ultimately failed. then after conversation with Izuru she found out that she can used him for her own plan but still doesn't manage how to do it. but then she meet Mitarai

i think Junko original plan is something that will takes years to accomplished, and the meeting with Mitarai just accelerate her agenda

[Calca]

Originally Posted by Stark700

Idk how about feel this whole brainwashing plan in general. Seems kinda flat coming from someone like Junko even though she is one of my favorite characters in the series.

Poor Chisa though...that must of been painful. The ending seems weird, I really wonder what happened and if she was released? When she was tortured earlier, Chisa sure looks like she was submitting to the despair. Really having doubts that she is normal. Also, that scene gave me

Spoiler:

Hunter x Hunter vibes.

She wasn't really tortured, Mukuro was stimulating the pleasure centers of the brain thus creating a Pavlovian link between that video and pleasure.

[pervypig]

With regard to Junko, I'm pretty sure that it's not that she has world-destroying abilities, but rather her predictive powers bored her so much that she can't care less what happened, whether despair win or loose. I mean if she's so much of a mastermind that everything went her way, won't she get bored of her plans as well? She's seeking unpredictability in her version of despair, so having it all go her way is counterproductive.

But yes, the latest episode preety much nailed it that chisa has turned. Juzo prolly realized it but kept it from munakuta because of his own feelings of envy for munakuta.

[Gilly]

Brainwashing movie is a really lazy way to explain the Tragedy after Junko bragged in DR2 about knowing hundreds of thousands of ways to cause despair. But whatever. I may have disliked this, but there were many more things that I did like.

1) Junko's dossier says she was placed in the school by the board of directors, and neither the principal nor the scout had anything to do with it. However, now that she's a student, the board "will take no responsibility"... Yup, they definitely knew she was trouble. Was the Tragedy actually planned by the school, and not by Junko? Because if it was, this would also explain why they created Izuru, did absolutely nothing with him, and let Junko find him and do with him as she pleased. Guess Nagito isn't the only ones who likes watching hope and despair collide. What happened to the directors? Are they still alive? Could they be villains in this installment or in a later one?

2) Impostor revealed his identity! ...Well, his true appearance at least because he has no name of his own. I think Monokuma mentioned in DR2 they knew his true identity, so there it is. It came true.

3) Chisa gets brainwashed and seemingly forgets Munakata! Oh man, here we go. Knowing this, can we look at Future arc from a new perspective? If Chisa was a villain, what was her actual role in the killing game? Was she killed first because she was a Despair? Or could she be still alive somehow? One thing for sure, Tengan told Munakata what happened to her, because that explains his "goodbye" to her as he stabbed her body. The Chisa he knew was gone in more ways than one.

4) Chiaki gets separated from her classmates and finds herself in front of Chisa in an unknown corridor. This can't end well.

We are reaching the finale for both arcs, and I'm more hyped than I've ever been.

[stray]

I dunno if Junko's file is going to be meaningful going forward but it definitely solidifies that SHSL analysis is why she was admitted and fashionista was a front. I'm guessing the board can "guarantee" her talent because they gave it to Izuru Kamakura.

I know people are kind of upset as far as SDR2 retcons but so far I'm pretty happy with the ones expanding the lore from DR0.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Gilly

3) Chisa gets brainwashed and seemingly forgets Munakata! Oh man, here we go. Knowing this, can we look at Future arc from a new perspective? If Chisa was a villain, what was her actual role in the killing game? Was she killed first because she was a Despair? Or could she be still alive somehow? One thing for sure, Tengan told Munakata what happened to her, because that explains his "goodbye" to her as he stabbed her body. The Chisa he knew was gone in more ways than one.

What if the Killing Game in Future is actually some kind of crazy internal purge organised by the Future Foundation itself? I'd say Munakata if it didn't look like he only learned from Tengan about Chisa...

[Router25]

I've totally forgot that high school is only two years (junior and senior) and since episode 5 marks the beginning of class 78, I think only 1-2 weeks (maybe even less than a week) have passed until episode 9.
And due to the timeline in the anime website that says that class 77 graduated, this means there was at least a year of subliminal brainwashing to take effect (or just an orchestrated hypocrisy made by Chisa and class 77 if they've already been brainwashed)

[erneiz_hyde]

Oh, Hope's Peak is only 2 years? Normally Japanese high school is 3 years long.

[DMurphy]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Oh, Hope's Peak is only 2 years? Normally Japanese high school is 3 years long.

I presume it's only 2 years because, as we were told at the start of the first game, you can't attend it unless you're already a high school student. So you do one year at a normal high school, get scouted during that year, and transfer.

[erneiz_hyde]

Oh yeah, that slipped my mind.

Huh, and they actually graduated? I need to see that timeline to have a clearer picture. When will the 2000 people suicide happen then?