AnimeSuki Forums

Rising Dragon · 2011-09-23, 12:19

The biggest difference is that the AEC is a weapon that requires a strong mage to even use, and those are few and far between. A regular person can't just pick it up and start killing people with it; they can't power it, making it a big, unwieldy club in the case of the hammer and the cannon. And furthermore, those weapons are thus far only in the control of the Bureau, who can govern their use.

Isis is an unaffiliated possible mage who uses magic to cause physical damage using chemicals. A wild card, who is already instinctively mistrusting of the Bureau. The Bureau, as such, cannot control her like they can with Nanoha and Vita and the others.

So you tell me who they're going to trust more with such weaponry.

Akiyoshi · 2011-09-23, 14:28

That's why i find questionable the creation and approval of the Raptors, they can be send en masse and also are optimized to wield the AEC units effectively. That go a bit against their "control" policy don't ya think?

Rising Dragon · 2011-09-23, 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

That's why i find questionable the creation and approval of the Raptors, they can be send en masse and also are optimized to wield the AEC units effectively. That go a bit against their "control" policy don't ya think?

You didn't pay attention to page 1 of Record 16, did you? The scientist started off saying they work only after receiving external commands and are controlled by people from the command center.

Keroko · 2011-09-23, 14:36

The creation was not done by the TSAB, but by a corporation on a world not under TSAB jurisdiction. Not much the TSAB can do about that, really. And the approval is still up in the air, considering the corp is still negotiating with the bureau.

But then again, if they get these things to work on magic, it's really little different from any other device the bureau has.

Akiyoshi · 2011-09-23, 14:37

Which also implies the possibility of the control being "hacked" out of their hands. To be fair seems to be a good strategy by Vandin Corp./Caledfwich Tech. to make pressure with the rampant Eclipse Drivers in order to force the TSAB into take risks by implementing the Raptors as official weapons.

Rising Dragon · 2011-09-23, 14:37

And, as mentioned, they still need a human controller, so the only chance of the Raptors going rogue is if their controllers go rogue.

Keroko · 2011-09-23, 14:38

If you are looking at hacking as a threat, the same thing goes for devices. So that's not really a solid argument to dismiss them.

Akiyoshi · 2011-09-23, 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

And, as mentioned, they still need a human controller, so the only chance of the Raptors going rogue is if their controllers go rogue.

Or if they controlled are paid or replaced to execute different orders from the ones planned xD

Keroko · 2011-09-23, 14:39

That goes for any human with a weapon, magic or not.

Rising Dragon · 2011-09-23, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

Or if they controlled are paid or replaced to execute different orders from the ones planned xD

Which, in the Bureau's eyes... is going rogue.

Akiyoshi · 2011-09-23, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

If you are looking at hacking as a threat, the same thing goes for devices. So that's not really a solid argument to dismiss them.

Don't deny that(in fact it could be a good source for drama, sadly it goes unexploited), still i think an advanced AI is less vulnerable than a brainless computer that only follow orders, that will give enormour power to however manage to get the controls of these things. If the plan includes snatching control of the Raptors from the TSAB at a critical moment, things will get really ugly xDU

Keroko · 2011-09-23, 14:43

The majority of the TSAB mages use devices without an AI. Yes, hacking is a potential problem, but not just with the raptors.

itanshi1 · 2011-09-23, 14:44

I demand script kiddies :3

Akiyoshi · 2011-09-23, 14:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

The majority of the TSAB mages use devices without an AI. Yes, hacking is a potential problem, but not just with the raptors.

Except Devices are still handheld weapons, at best they can manage to get them to become small threats by shooting without orders, self-destroying or jamming, but the Raptors are fully functional able-bodied units, thus they can be far more dangerous than any rogue Device by virtue of beuing able to interact efficiently with their surroundings(even using other weapons and devices themselves). It's like comparing a rogue body-less gun with a rogue human-shaped clone, the clone is much more dangerous just because of his human shape.

Rising Dragon · 2011-09-23, 14:54

Yeah, let's just totally forget that Devices can control bodies if they need to (Subaru) and some can fly on their own. You're grasping at straws, Aki.

Keroko · 2011-09-23, 14:54

You are severely downgrading the effect of having all your troops in the field be virtually defenseless, disabled, shooting at each other or even dead if the hacker decides massive overload sounds like the fun thing to do.

Yes, with hacking you suddenly have a bunch of allies turning into enemies, which will outright ruin whatever plan you had, but the guys who used to control them will still be alive and in a position to counter the hacking. Get your main source of offense, defense and utility hacked in the field? Not so much luck. Your plan still gets ruined.

They both have their own ups and downs.

itanshi1 · 2011-09-23, 14:57

I wonder if Subaru being a cyborg had a hand in that override.

Rising Dragon · 2011-09-23, 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by itanshi1

I wonder if Subaru being a cyborg had a hand in that override.

Not terribly much, given the edits made by the DVD--there, it was just how the Devices were designed--a gauntlet and two roller blades. The edits made it so that Mach Calibur used Wing Road to move its kicks and movements for Subaru.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6a63...eature=related

Akiyoshi · 2011-09-23, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Yeah, let's just totally forget that Devices can control bodies if they need to (Subaru) and some can fly on their own. You're grasping at straws, Aki.

But they're still limited to some "body control" functions, not complete movement(more than "control" Subaru's body, what Mach Caliber does is putting into practice a maneuver she and Subaru had been trained tons of times, a limited maneuver that required assistance from Wing Road and Knuckle Duster to create a motion that moves Subaru's otherwise inert body). Very few Devices displayed the ability of "flying on their own" Raising Heart and the Hybrid Devices on ViVid are among the most known examples ...and they can only do that in "standby form" ....until Raising Heart's Standalone Flight Mode.

Hacked devices are indeed a threat(and a soulbreaking torture to sentinent ones) but hacked humanoid androids are a much more extreme danger.

Keroko · 2011-09-23, 15:07

Even though, unlike devices, the original operators are still fully functional and in a position to counter said hacking?

2011-09-23, 12:19	Link #4201
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	The biggest difference is that the AEC is a weapon that requires a strong mage to even use, and those are few and far between. A regular person can't just pick it up and start killing people with it; they can't power it, making it a big, unwieldy club in the case of the hammer and the cannon. And furthermore, those weapons are thus far only in the control of the Bureau, who can govern their use. Isis is an unaffiliated possible mage who uses magic to cause physical damage using chemicals. A wild card, who is already instinctively mistrusting of the Bureau. The Bureau, as such, cannot control her like they can with Nanoha and Vita and the others. So you tell me who they're going to trust more with such weaponry. __________________

2011-09-23, 14:28	Link #4202
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	That's why i find questionable the creation and approval of the Raptors, they can be send en masse and also are optimized to wield the AEC units effectively. That go a bit against their "control" policy don't ya think? __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2011-09-23, 14:37	Link #4205
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Which also implies the possibility of the control being "hacked" out of their hands. To be fair seems to be a good strategy by Vandin Corp./Caledfwich Tech. to make pressure with the rampant Eclipse Drivers in order to force the TSAB into take risks by implementing the Raptors as official weapons. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2011-09-23, 14:37	Link #4206
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	And, as mentioned, they still need a human controller, so the only chance of the Raptors going rogue is if their controllers go rogue. __________________

2011-09-23, 14:44	Link #4213
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	I demand script kiddies :3 __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2011-09-23, 14:36	Link #4204
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	The creation was not done by the TSAB, but by a corporation on a world not under TSAB jurisdiction. Not much the TSAB can do about that, really. And the approval is still up in the air, considering the corp is still negotiating with the bureau. But then again, if they get these things to work on magic, it's really little different from any other device the bureau has.

2011-09-23, 14:38	Link #4207
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	If you are looking at hacking as a threat, the same thing goes for devices. So that's not really a solid argument to dismiss them.

2011-09-23, 14:39	Link #4209
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	That goes for any human with a weapon, magic or not.

2011-09-23, 14:43	Link #4212
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	The majority of the TSAB mages use devices without an AI. Yes, hacking is a potential problem, but not just with the raptors.

2011-09-23, 14:54	Link #4215
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Yeah, let's just totally forget that Devices can control bodies if they need to (Subaru) and some can fly on their own. You're grasping at straws, Aki. __________________

2011-09-23, 14:54	Link #4216
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	You are severely downgrading the effect of having all your troops in the field be virtually defenseless, disabled, shooting at each other or even dead if the hacker decides massive overload sounds like the fun thing to do. Yes, with hacking you suddenly have a bunch of allies turning into enemies, which will outright ruin whatever plan you had, but the guys who used to control them will still be alive and in a position to counter the hacking. Get your main source of offense, defense and utility hacked in the field? Not so much luck. Your plan still gets ruined. They both have their own ups and downs.

2011-09-23, 14:57	Link #4217
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	I wonder if Subaru being a cyborg had a hand in that override. __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2011-09-23, 15:07	Link #4220
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Even though, unlike devices, the original operators are still fully functional and in a position to counter said hacking?