2011-10-22, 23:34 | Link #25261 | ||
The True Culprit
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Do you have evidence that he does know? Otherwise our positions aren't equal, and mine stands above yours. Fuck, Umineko had a whole SCENE about this. Quote:
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2011-10-22, 23:48 | Link #25262 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Honestly, if we're set to believe Yasu was ''so tragic for hating people for such awful reasons!'' Then we should also be set to believe that ''Yasu fucking cheated on 3 people and they should murder her because she doesn't understand how they feel about being played with to satisfy her masturbation of receiving love''.
If I tried to date 3 people and claimed my other personalities(or whatever we want to consider them at this point) are the ones who love those respective people...well fuck me. I don't think Yasu is in any position to kill anyone or even hate them for ''how selfish they are'', or ''how indirectly they hurt her feelings''. |
2011-10-23, 01:08 | Link #25263 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Why should that be a point of concern if it's not supported by the narrative, Renall? The situation of no corpses being found on the island is consistent with the whole family changing their names and running off to Fiji with the gold, but nobody criticizes the narrative for leaving that possibility open because it isn't backed up by any evidence. Isn't this functionally the same thing with a different evidence space?
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2011-10-23, 01:21 | Link #25264 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Ahem. Anyways, can't we all just agree that battler was incompetent in not asking for a clarification regarding the number of living bodies on Rokkenjima? This one of those moments where you can sort of tell the author made a character somewhat less sharp than they should have been, especially since Battler indulges in so many other weird permutations to account for the number of people. Hell, even though she doesn't do it until the Logic Error of Dawn, even Erika asked about it, eventually, when there was a person she couldn't account for. She asked somewhat poorly, but at least she asked. :-/ |
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2011-10-23, 02:57 | Link #25267 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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by the way, Did Will represents Toya in Ep7? also can Lion=ikuko? .i think Toya can be Will in a way that we know there's only one person that figure out the truth.Its Meta Battler. Meta Battler=Toya so its valid. This can explain why Battler was late for the burial since Toya was the one that figured it out. |
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2011-10-23, 03:14 | Link #25268 | |||||
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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But semantic misleads from Red should be no surprise at all. They were obviously fair game; there were several times throughout episodes 3 and 4 where Battler suspected that Beatrice was trying to deceive him by using characters with multiple names, name transfers, or even multiple personalities. In episode 5 and 6 these kinds of thought patterns got even more exposure. These tricks are not qualitatively any different than S&K being fictional people; it's just that S&K being made up people was simply out of the realm of our thinking patterns to suspect. Sure, there were hints, but the idea of ShKanon was just too ridiculous to seriously consider. This bothered me (although less nowadays than it used to). I had long thought of the idea that S&K were the same person, but found the idea just plain stupid and dismissed it. So I do not like ShKanon, or at least how ShKanon was handled, but I would not go so far as to say that Beatrice betrayed the rules of the game. Quote:
Interestingly Beatrice always had this hax ability, but never used it until episode 6. I think this was the "dirty trick" RK07 mentioned that Land was supposed to have used. Quote:
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2011-10-23, 03:29 | Link #25269 | |||||||
The True Culprit
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And Lion is an unperson. He's an idealized Yasu that could never be. But he's still beautiful, and worth saving, because of what he means to her. Quote:
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2011-10-23, 03:29 | Link #25270 | ||
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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I think both Rosa and Maria have mixed feelings toward each other. Rosa loves her daughter but also feels restricted by her, and Maria reciprocates both of these feelings by both loving Rosa back but also feeling resentful for being unwanted. Quote:
Possible. can Lion=ikuko? Lion=Yasu. If Yasu=Ikuko then Lion=Ikuko Will being Touya and Lion being Yasu kind of explains their attraction for each other. |
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2011-10-23, 04:21 | Link #25271 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Thats the conclusion i got from that. |
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2011-10-23, 06:50 | Link #25272 | ||||||
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Investigation can be a part of detective and mystery fiction, but it is not a defining factor. If there is any it is "there is a mystery which could be solvable or not" in mystery novels and "there is a character who apparently tries to solve the mystery" in detective novels. If you claim that Umineko is not a mystery based on this idea, you are condemning whole sub-genres of mystery fiction to oblivion. I understand that you're angry, but sometimes your argument misses the point if it is not really based on reality but purely on your own conception of something...in this case mystery fiction. Quote:
Imagine you played a special round in which you are secretly allowed to play not one but three characters. Therefore of course you wouldn't be removed from the game if one of your characters ran out of HP. If you played that game per mail or online, nobody would notice at first, but maybe they would notice that two characters have the same IP or that the others never move when one does. By one of your characters dying you are not actually removed from the game, you are still an active player...technically you could even send out one of these characters (if he was a necromancer) and revive another. Quote:
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But I'd argue that by EP4 we get some proof that Kinzô is not something that is exclusive to the grandfather of the Ushiromiya family, it is something that can be usurped by others. Therefore if we use that knowledge and go back we could say that the Kinzô who created this furniture is the Kinzô we met in the games, not the person Ushiromiya Kinzô. The character I'd draw into question here is neither Kinzô nor Shkannon but Genji. Who was that demon who helped Kinzô create the furniture Genji? Why is he regarded furniture? I think you can draw theories on that...though you'd probably call them conjecture because the story does not provide a clear answer. |
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2011-10-23, 08:32 | Link #25273 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
Age: 27
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also in ep4 when yasu takes hostage's. how can shannon and kannon be there? unless yasu told them to lie to about shannon and kannon being there . so the illusion of kannon and shannon as hostage's is created?
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2011-10-23, 11:01 | Link #25275 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Last edited by LyricalAura; 2011-10-23 at 11:13. |
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2011-10-23, 11:04 | Link #25276 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
Age: 27
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than krauss,nanjo and kyrie are helping her?
meaby they faked those calls ? in ep5 lambda faked the man from 18 years ago (yasu) .something like this: Yasu killed everyone.Gohda and kumasawa somehow escaped .Yasu fake's the calls. but why would gohda and kumasawa lie ? unless there helping yasu. AGHHHHHHHH |
2011-10-23, 11:15 | Link #25277 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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2011-10-23, 11:52 | Link #25278 | |
Goat
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
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Kyrie is lying too. Also, either Krauss or Jessica are lying (Jessica and Gohda are the only ones who talk to Krauss on the phone). The only person who speaks with Nanjo is Kumasawa, who is a liar, so he's not necessarily even there either. As to why there is so much lying going on, that's a subject of debate and speculation. Possible reasons include bribery, threats, or the murder game theory. I think the only calls that may be fake are the last ones by Jessica and Kyrie. |
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2011-10-23, 15:06 | Link #25279 | |||||||||
The True Culprit
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If Yasu can redefine how dying works, Battler can redefine birth. Quote:
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2011-10-23, 15:37 | Link #25280 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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