Toradora! - Character Discussion - Kushieda Minori

[willyvereb]

We know that...And i have no problem with it until the last 4-6 episodes...The happenings changed my mind about the whole thing. Maybe since Ami become an "all seeing eye" and for Ryuji got closer to Minorin...

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by willyvereb

It could have written better. In contrast with the other tsundere lolis(Louise, Shana): Shana and Louise were more independent and they have good sides about their personality that other contenders not. Perhaps maybe it's just because every contender were weak compared to the heroine in that stories.

Fail.

Taiga is NOTHING like Shana or Louise. NOTHING.

Take the shipper goggles off.

Taiga's life sucked up until she met Ryuuji. Without Ryuuji, her life will continue to suck.

She needs him. She deserves his love, after all the crap she's gone through.

Minorin and Ami don't have near the emotional problems, nor do they need him.

They want him, which is very different.

Originally Posted by willyvereb

We know that...And i have no problem with it until the last 4-6 episodes...The happenings changed my mind about the whole thing. Maybe since Ami become an "all seeing eye" and for Ryuji got closer to Minorin...

He still isn't any closer to her, in reality.

Really, they're further apart than before.

And Ami's been an "all-seeing eye" since, like, the beach episodes.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Taiga's life sucked up until she met Ryuuji. Without Ryuuji, her life will continue to suck.

And Viceversa, Ryuuji's life, feared for almost everybody, unable to make friends, sucked up too.

It's a win-win relationship.

[willyvereb]

Minorin suffered and suffers as much as Taiga but she somehow live with it(her background is mistery but we know that she has negative iopinion about her parents and she grabs every occasion to stay away from home).
And Ami is alone too. She had no one., because everyone admired her but their feelings were shallow. Now she has some ppl who like her as she is, so she has little problems now(but then the same can be said about Taiga considering the life...not her pain because of her love...The thing that Ami despite her earlier efforts is totally ignored by Ryuji can be pretty painfull too)
Even with a Ryuji X Minorin pairing they can still support Taiga.
And how not similar?
similar looks, similar violent tsundere-ness. Not to mention that Shana must deal with more sorrow(perhaps she's got a Wilhellmina and Alastor...but Taiga got Minorin as support. But somehow she can't help her...it's the same mistery as the one with Nagissa in Clannad...she have her devoted loving parents...it's a mistery that they couldn't support her well...i mean to become strong. Why both of them needed a "boyfriend" for it?).
Perhaps there IS many things that not similar to Shana, but generaly she can be considered a "Shana-clone"(it's rude to call it that, but it i mean that Shana was maybe the first violent loli-tsundere with some domina attributes...it's mnore like an archtype than direct copying tough) just as Louise.

[Tango337]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Fail.

Taiga is NOTHING like Shana or Louise. NOTHING.

Take the shipper goggles off.

Taiga's life sucked up until she met Ryuuji. Without Ryuuji, her life will continue to suck.

She needs him. She deserves his love, after all the crap she's gone through.

Minorin and Ami don't have near the emotional problems, nor do they need him.

They want him, which is very different.

Originally Posted by Fran~

And Viceversa, Ryuuji's life, feared for almost everybody, unable to make friends, sucked up too.

It's a win-win relationship.

Completely agree. From the start, and how well they helped and went through things together they were pretty much made for each other.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by willyvereb

Minorin suffered and suffers as much as Taiga but she somehow live with it(her background is mistery but we know that she has negative iopinion about her parents and she grabs every occasion to stay away from home).

Minori's troubles are bigger than a mere boyfriend... there are 2 reason for Minori to not fight for Ryuuji, one must be revealed, the other is simple: even Minori knows how much are Taiga and Ryuuji made for each other...

Minori isnt fighting for Ryuuji (as Ami pretends to be) she is fighting for her own goals in life.

And Ami is alone too. She had no one., because everyone admired her but their feelings were shallow. Now she has some ppl who like her as she is, so she has little problems now(but then the same can be said about Taiga considering the life...not her pain because of her love...The thing that Ami despite her earlier efforts is totally ignored by Ryuji can be pretty painfull too)

It was Ami's fault to leave a wrong impression in a shy deer as Ryuuji... Ami can tease with Kitamura, probably Kitamura will take his clothes off and such... you could see how reacted Ryuuji at her villa's after the shower's joke.

Even with a Ryuji X Minorin pairing they can still support Taiga.
And how not similar?
similar looks, similar violent tsundere-ness. Not to mention that Shana must deal with more sorrow(perhaps she's got a Wilhellmina and Alastor...but Taiga got Minorin as support. But somehow she can't help her...it's the same mistery as the one with Nagissa in Clannad...she have her devoted loving parents...it's a mistery that they couldn't support her well...i mean to become strong. Why both of them needed a "boyfriend" for it?).
Perhaps there IS many things that not similar to Shana, but generaly she can be considered a "Shana-clone"(it's rude to call it that, but it i mean that Shana was maybe the first violent loli-tsundere with some domina attributes...it's mnore like an archtype than direct copying tough) just as Louise.

no way... no way...
Try to understand the meaning of Tsundere and Loli... you're mixing wrong concepts.

Taiga might be little, but that isn't mean to be Loli, Taiga might be a spoiled girl, but isn't mean to be Tsundere. Loli are the girls of Kodomo no Jikan, and Tsundere is Sawachika Eri. Taiga can't be compared to none of them.

And no way she is near to Shana... at all.

[Tri-ring]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Fail.

Minorin and Ami don't have near the emotional problems, nor do they need him.

They want him, which is very different.

I can hear these girl's phrase now,
How did you figure that out?
Did you actually see what was going through my heart?
Did you witness my entire past?
You know nothing about me so do not label me telling me what I need and what I want.

In a way I think this is one of the core themes of this story, don't draw conclusion to other people's emotion.
Taiga said it, Ryuji said it, Sumire said it, Ami said it and Minori said it too.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by willyvereb

Minorin suffered and suffers as much as Taiga but she somehow live with it(her background is mistery but we know that she has negative iopinion about her parents and she grabs every occasion to stay away from home).
And Ami is alone too. She had no one., because everyone admired her but their feelings were shallow. Now she has some ppl who like her as she is, so she has little problems now(but then the same can be said about Taiga considering the life...not her pain because of her love...The thing that Ami despite her earlier efforts is totally ignored by Ryuji can be pretty painfull too)

All I can say to this is that they need to get over it and grow up.

Ami has her mom. Minorin has her parents and her brother, regardless of her relationship with them.

Taiga had no one, not even Minorin, really.

Ami and Minorin were not abandoned by their emotionally abusive parents parents, time and time again. Ami and Minorin weren't anemic and barely surviving alone.

Originally Posted by willyvereb

Even with a Ryuji X Minorin pairing they can still support Taiga.

Not to near the same extent, no. And Taiga would forcibly distance herself if they did get together. Or were you not paying attention in Episode 19?

Originally Posted by willyvereb

similar looks, similar violent tsundere-ness.

...Have you ACTUALLY been watching Toradora? Have you ever seen Shana or ZnT?

The similarities are superficial. Taiga isn't a tsundere.

She's nothing like them. She's infinitely more complex.

Originally Posted by Fran~

Taiga might be little, but that isn't mean to be Loli, Taiga might be a spoiled girl, but isn't mean to be Tsundere. Loli are the girls of Kodomo no Jikan, and Tsundere is Sawachika Eri. Taiga can't be compared to none of them.

'Loli' really only means "short girl with a flat chest".

Taiga's a loli, but not a tsundere.

She's a violent bitch, but what sets her apart is her REASONS for being a violent bitch.

Originally Posted by Tri-ring

I can hear these girl's phrase now,
How did you figure that out?
Did you actually see what was going through my heart?
Did you witness my entire past?
You know nothing about me so do not label me telling me what I need and what I want.

In a way I think this is one of the core themes of this story, don't draw conclusion to other people's emotion.
Taiga said it, Ryuji said it, Sumire said it, Ami said it and Minori said it too.

But they DON'T need him as much, especially Minorin.

Minorin was doing just fine on her own before she met Ryuuji. (In fact, I think the emotional turmoil might be making her personal problems WORSE...)

Ami's gotten a lot better, but all she really needs is friends, not a lover. And she already has those.

Taiga, on the other hand...

And we can make conclusions about the emotions of people involved in the story simply because we, as the viewers/readers, are effectively omniscient.

Or would you rather us say nothing at all?

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

'Loli' really only means "short girl with a flat chest".

I understand that the concept is different: it derives from "lolita complex" and involves underaged girls, chest is debatible, in fact as you can see in Kodomo no Jikan, one of the girls hasnt a "flat chest" at all.

If am i wrong, please correct me. But Taiga has 17 years old.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Fran~

I understand that the concept is different: it derives from "lolita complex" and involves underaged girls, chest is debatible, in fact as you can see in Kodomo no Jikan, one of the girls hasnt a "flat chest" at all.

If am i wrong, please correct me. But Taiga has 17 years old.

Language evolves beyond its original boundaries.

If you're sexually interested in any of the girls in Kodomo no Jikan, you're a pedophile.

If you're sexually interested in Taiga, you're a lolicon.

Rather different.

Oh, and Taiga IS underage, in the US, for that matter.

[Fran~]

Not in Japan...

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Fran~

Not in Japan...

Actually, in many places in Japan, she's just barely legal.


Anyway, my point is that, yes, Taiga is a loli. Just older than many lolis.

[BetoJR]

And people wonder why I have a problem with labeling... sometimes, we cannot even agree on what the label should mean, let alone how to use it properly.

[Fran~]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Anyway, my point is that, yes, Taiga is a loli. Just older than many lolis.

Not by Nabokov's standards... but hell, it's pointless this

[Vexx]

Even in the US, 17 is legal in many states.... just fyi...

but people call my wife "loli" and she's my age, very small, but has "boobage" as the anime fans are likely to say... its a very loosely defined term that gets a lot of mileage in forums (sometimes as an insult from certain factions).

[typhonsentra]

It goes as young as 16 but there are some exceptions in certain states that would say, allow a pairing of a 14 year old and an 18 year old.

[wistfulloner]

Lets get back on topic people, this is a Minori discussion thread.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Minorin was doing just fine on her own before she met Ryuuji. (In fact, I think the emotional turmoil might be making her personal problems WORSE...)

Its all part of love, ain't it? No one said it would be a bed of roses, and you can't blame Ryuji for trying it.

"Ryuji, I believe its your fault for falling in love with me causing me to have feelings for you and as a result screw my personal and emotional life up."

You can't imagine Minori saying that.

[Kafriel]

Well, she could say that she has dreams, and in order to accimplish them, she and Ryuuji are never to be together...yeah, that would be the definition of vanity, just what Ryuuji needs to get over Minori and consider what to do with the other two.
P.S: I can't imagine Ryuuji would be so selfish as to ask her if he means more to her than her dreams...

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Even in the US, 17 is legal in many states.... just fyi...

There's usually some stipulation like how you can only have sex with someone two years older/younger than you.

18 is "fully legal" and it basically means adulthood in the "Western World".

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

Its all part of love, ain't it? No one said it would be a bed of roses, and you can't blame Ryuji for trying it.

I'm not saying it's his fault... I'm just saying it's made her own situation worse.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

There's usually some stipulation like how you can only have sex with someone two years older/younger than you.

18 is "fully legal" and it basically means adulthood in the "Western World".

Here, have some enlightenment on the variability of age of consent and what is "legal" in our 50 states ...
http://www.ageofconsent.us/
http://teenadvice.about.com/library/...nsentchart.htm
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-librar...f-consent.html
And then there's Canada:
http://www.parl.gc.ca/information/li...s/prb993-e.htm
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...rime-bill.html
http://www.lifesitenews.com/ldn/2008/mar/08030501.html
Given the number of teens and 20-somethings on this forum, this subject seems remarkably confusing for many.


Back to Minori, she is like many Japanese youth -- they have direction and goal. "Love" at the wrong time can interfere with that. High school romances often fade on college entry -- distance makes it impossible (that was one of the big obstacles in Love*Com). If one chooses a college to be with the other, that places undue obligation on the other. Sumire has the same quandary - Minori is just another example of that. On the other hand, Ryuuji and Taiga do not seem to have expressed goals they're just riding the education conveyer belt.