Bakemonogatari generic discussion

[Silverwyrm]

Originally Posted by CrazyRevy

Best part of the whole ep had to be Hachikuji's "congratulations".

QFT as much as I liked the sudden straightforward confession, when this part came up I laughed out loud, then rewound it and watched it again.

[Sephiroth_760]

Originally Posted by Silverwyrm

QFT as much as I liked the sudden straightforward confession, when this part came up I laughed out loud, then rewound it and watched it again.

haha that scene was really funny xD
but I thought she is going to say something plain like "suki" or "aishiteru" but no ... she tries some kind of broken english (although it was fluently) hahaha xD

[Sinestra]

That had to be one of the most awkward, funny and unique confessions i have ever seen. I loved every min of it Senjogahara's is a very unique character there is not in between with her you either like her or you dont. I for one like her shes boring to say the least. Her explanation for why she like Araragi was so damn funny i had to rewind and watch it again. It took me a while to understand everything she was saying but eventually i got it. I pretty much just link it with those movies where someone gets saved and falls in love with the person who saved them. This one is a little more extreme though Loved Araragi's answers to her confession. He basically accepted that they are not in a relationship but answered in his own way. I know i couldnt say no to her. I look forward to more of her loving verbal abuse.

CONGRATULATIONS "had me in tears laughing for about 20min"

Great episode and looks like our loli is back as well with a an upgrade. If you couldnt tell i loved the episode.

[Darknemo2000]

It can be bit scary going out with Tsundere-chan. She smells other woman so perfectly, think what will she do if she decides you have too strong smell of other woman around you - stapler treatment all over again and word raping.

[apr]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

It can be bit scary going out with Tsundere-chan. She smells other woman so perfectly, think what will she do if she decides you have too strong smell of other woman around you - stapler treatment all over again and word raping.

There are scarier things than staplers.

[willyvereb]

Or decide to leave you. But I think the later(stapler treatment) is more probable. Honestly, Araragi could thank god for being former vampire.
It's funny about Senjogahara her uniqueness comes from a weakness she's relucant to admit. She closed herself in for years and has a hard time expressing emotions or her thoughts honestly. Her socialisation skills are fairly weak too. That's why she's unintentionally(?) harms people with her words. Perhaps she has high pride and refuses to admit it.
But that's why she's an interesting character(same with Araragi who seems to me a combination of Kyon[Haruhi] and Sunohara[Clannad]...at least he inherited Kyon's harem skills)

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

I'm just loving how these characters don't mess around and just say what they're feeling. It's so refreshing. It's arguably not realistic though, but we could all probably take lessons from this. Again, it's just so refreshing. These are people that actually go forward. But they're not perfect either, they do have their flaws and hang-ups. They're human, but their respectable.

I love how a single episode manages to reduce even the most articulate contributors into a quivering mass of gush.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Ah, Senjougahara.... Really, what a great anime character she is.

I'm putting Saitou Chiwa in my list of possible "best performances of 2009" for this one. And although it's not at that level, I loved Katou Emiri's Hachikuji, as well. She really is a good seiyuu, not just a one-hit wonder (Kagami in Lucky Star). And Kamiya Hiroshi has such an open, frank-sounding voice. A pleasure to listen to.

You know, I don't normally pay much attention to voice acting. Not because I don't appreciate the efforts of anime's many talented actors, but rather because I generally find them to be uniformly good. Honestly, I don't recall ever hearing a Japanese voice actor who was genuinely bad at his or her role. That, in itself, says a lot about my opinion of these professionals: it's very high.

But Saitou Chiwa has been truly exceptional in this show. Just listening to her enunciate Senjougahara's lines literally sends shivers down my spine. Take, for example, that one tiny, almost breathless, exhalation she makes while Senjougahara muses on the possibility that she's "forcing" herself to like Araragi. Senjougahara oozes so much classical sex appeal in that one line that her luminosity borders on Marilyn Monroe incandescence.

Saitou-san's acting, together with the tremendous amount of artistic talent that has been poured into this production, makes this show an absolute joy to watch. (No offence to all the other characters, of course. They have all been lovable but, in my strong opinion, Senjougahara is literally running laps around them!)

For once, I'm not even sure where to begin digging into the deeper meanings behind the imagery and themes presented thus far. Here's a tentative start, with reference to sirn's post:

Originally Posted by sirn

Some good bits that were cut in the anime, I really wish they could restore them in the BD version.
(Pardon my bad translation):

Spoiler for #5 19:53~:

"You still haven't answered me."
"......"
Answer, huh.
I'm sure she is talking about that.
"Um, Senjougahara. About that, I..."
"Let me say it beforehand, Araragi-kun. I hate those type of love comedy that you know the main characters will become couple at the end but only drag the story along with half-hearted 'more than friend, less than lovers' development."
"Is that so..."
"Even more, I also hate sports manga that the main character will surely win at the end, but drag the story along with 1 vs 1 match for a year or battle manga that last boss will surely be defeated anyway but spent the whole story on never-ending filler battles."
"Did you just denied all shoujo/shonen manga in existence?!"
"So, what will you do?"

Spoiler for #5 21:26~:

"Even I said so, Araragi-kun."
"Huh?"
"If Araragi-kun reject this request, I will kill you and escape."
"Isn't you just a murderer?! You have to die too!"
"I'm that serious."
"Ah, is that so..."

Spoiler for #5 21:55~:

"Well, Senjougahara. Can I have a condition?"
"What is that? Want to observe me waxing for one week?"
"I'm sure that is the worst line you've even spoken until now!"

Indeed, it's a pity that those lines had been cut, considering the extent to which Bakemonogatari is built around witty dialogue. The greater amount of intricate detail found in books is usually the reason why people prefer the literary versions of their favourite stories over the ones adapted for TV or cinema.

But, at the same time, a book is a book and anime is anime -- they're two different media with different strengths and, in my opinion, Bakemonogatari is jam-packed with a cascade of visual imagery that plays to anime's unique strengths as a storytelling medium.

Much of it is chaotic, of course, and a lot of it is arguably too pretentious for many viewers' tastes. But when they do work, they often work incredibly well. For a start, consider what this blogger (if you're a member of this forum, say hi!) noticed about the way Senjougahara actually "sees" Hachikuji at the playground, versus what we, as viewers, think she was seeing at the time.

This was at the scene where Senjougahara explains to Araragi how different conclusions are reached when we start out thinking from different viewpoints. Juxtapose her observation with the way the characters "appeared" to be standing at that moment, and you can immediately see how clever the visual direction had been -- the producers had taken a leaf right out of director Shyamalan's book, deceptively leading viewers into an illusory viewpoint through the use of carefully positioned camera angles.

And, then, there's the example that SeijiSensei raised a few pages back:

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

(image by apr)

I've been struck by the recurring design choice of horizontal and vertical lines between the viewers and the characters. It conjures up a feeling that the characters are somehow incarcerated. I've wondered whether this is intended to connote that the Japanese people, or perhaps especially its young people, are "jailed" by their culture and mores.

I agree that the imagery was probably meant to imply incarceration of some sort. If you think about it, it's not just those bars that implied a "prison". The two sets of monkey bars that ring the perimeter of the playground also, in my mind, represent a prison of sorts. Or, in this context, they appear to delineate the characters' "safety zone", an oasis amid an oppresive desert of empty space. It's an emptiness that traps them all or, at the very least, Araragi, who was feeling very small throughout the most part of this arc.

I'm beginning to get the impression that the wide open space is meant to emphasise the varying degrees of loneliness that all the characters feel: Senjougahara's anxious desire not to appear strange again; Hachikuji's deliberate rejection of company so as not to lead people astry; and, lastly, Araragi's feeling of being ostracised by his sisters.

That's another example of visual imagery that had been used very effectively, I believe. To me, it's an example of how the appropriate use of visual technique can effectively encapsulate the essence of a literary story.

There are plenty of other things to pick up, I'm sure. Most of them appear to be merely for flair and effect. But there will definitely be a few that are meant to have deliberate meaning. The images are "everywhere and nowhere at the same" time. So, how many more do you see?

[apr]

Getting back to the scene in the image above, the novel states in Araragi's narrative that the reason Senjougahara didn't accept the note was that she couldn't see it. It was part of Hachikuji's existence, making it invisible to her.

Now, from Senjougahara's point of view, all she sees is Araragi holding out his arm to her. What was her reaction to this? He clearly wouldn't reach out and hold out the note behind her (like we see), because it would seem strangely insane, but I started wondering if her interpretation was "Hey, does he want to hug me?" and she closed in (unseen by the "camera"), stood there for a moment and noticed that he wasn't doing anything, then realized her mistake and stepped back, pretending to be disgusted by him?

There's nothing about it in the novel, so it seems an anime original version of the scene, open to its own speculation.

[Malkuth]

Originally Posted by qwertyman

Nope, but she might as well be, since we all know that's what 90% of the Bakemonogatari fans watch Bakemonogatari for.

For the last arc with Tsubasa of course

[CrazyRevy]

Originally Posted by Silverwyrm

QFT as much as I liked the sudden straightforward confession, when this part came up I laughed out loud, then rewound it and watched it again.

HAHA your not the only one I think I rewatched that scene atleast 4 times and then a 5th to get screen caps of it lol.



When I saw this did anyone else have"YOUR DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT SHALL PIERCE THE HEAVENS!“ go through your head.


Also @ TinyRedLeaf thanks for that blog link I really enjoyed reading what insight that blogger had to say it basically matched with everything I had been thinking through the episode and glade to see I was on track with most of what I had been speculating. I also didn't take note till I read that about how Hachikuji wasn't visable till Senjōgahara climbed the stairs its such a small detail that I totally overlooked that part.

[ickem]

Originally Posted by apr

There are scarier things than staplers.

Exactly.

Spoiler for mild spoiler for the next ep:

That's why you shouldn't let your guard down even if she says she doesn't have the stapler. And of course, you're not supposed to say another girl's name without the honorific.

[Raiga]

The thread's reached 1000 posts! Time to unload some images.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by willyvereb

It's funny about Senjogahara her uniqueness comes from a weakness she's relucant to admit. She closed herself in for years and has a hard time expressing emotions or her thoughts honestly.

Hmmm... I don't think so. It's rather that it was her own decision to seclude herself from others, a conscious decision of hers which she openly admits. And actually, I'd say that she has exceptional expressional skills and is absolutely not ashamed to voice her thoughts honestly and openly.

Her socialisation skills are fairly weak too. That's why she's unintentionally(?) harms people with her words.

I'd say she enjoys smacking others (in particular, Araragi) around with her incredible teasing power. And we're here, cheering her on (at least I am)

[Hypernova]

Originally Posted by apr

Getting back to the scene in the image above, the novel states in Araragi's narrative that the reason Senjougahara didn't accept the note was that she couldn't see it. It was part of Hachikuji's existence, making it invisible to her.

Now, from Senjougahara's point of view, all she sees is Araragi holding out his arm to her. What was her reaction to this? He clearly wouldn't reach out and hold out the note behind her (like we see), because it would seem strangely insane, but I started wondering if her interpretation was "Hey, does he want to hug me?" and she closed in (unseen by the "camera"), stood there for a moment and noticed that he wasn't doing anything, then realized her mistake and stepped back, pretending to be disgusted by him?

There's nothing about it in the novel, so it seems an anime original version of the scene, open to its own speculation.

That makes sense, I only thought to the point of she not taking the note because she couldn't see it. She probably thought he was try to do something to impress her.

[kujoe]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

I agree that the imagery was probably meant to imply incarceration of some sort. If you think about it, it's not just those bars that implied a "prison". The two sets of monkey bars that ring the perimeter of the playground also, in my mind, represent a prison of sorts. Or, in this context, they appear to delineate the characters' "safety zone", an oasis amid an oppresive desert of empty space. It's an emptiness that traps them all or, at the very least, Araragi, who was feeling very small throughout the most part of this arc.

I'm beginning to get the impression that the wide open space is meant to emphasise the varying degrees of loneliness that all the characters feel: Senjougahara's anxious desire not to appear strange again; Hachikuji's deliberate rejection of company so as not to lead people astry; and, lastly, Araragi's feeling of being ostracised by his sisters.

That's another example of visual imagery that had been used very effectively, I believe. To me, it's an example of how the appropriate use of visual technique can effectively encapsulate the essence of a literary story.

There are plenty of other things to pick up, I'm sure. Most of them appear to be merely for flair and effect. But there will definitely be a few that are meant to have deliberate meaning. The images are "everywhere and nowhere at the same" time. So, how many more do you see?

I have a different opinion on this matter. The feeling I get is not one of incarceration at all, but rather openness. There's a reason for such far shots.

Others have already taken note about the geometry of bars and shapes in every shot, but not many have focused on the role that colour plays. The colour palette of the background is that of primary colours—that is red, yellow and blue—set at first on a neutral, gray background. The effect of an RYB palette is in a way rather energetic; yellow can leap towards you by intensity alone, but blues and reds are stark enough for the eye to jump from one to the other. Not one colour can truly dominate the other two. Interesting to note here, is that these colours are used only for the park, and even when the sun is setting these colours still stand out in each shot. No such colour scheme is present on the streets when they set out in search of Mayoi's mother. It is no accident that extensive exposition takes place in the park.

The geometry of the bars also connotes movement—that is, movement within symmetry or balance. Not one element in the background tries to dominate your attention. If the characters weren't present at all, your gaze would have been everywhere (or nowhere), balanced across the space of the picture all at the same time. The neutral background, also symmetrical and visually balanced in its own terms (the never-ending rows of windows of apartment buildings), only serves to make these coloured bars pop. In other words, with bars that go everywhere and nowhere, there is no specific focal point; no point of dominance that grabs at your attention. Nothing is emphasized over the other in the background. This also reflected in the symmetry or balance demonstrated by shape and form (the top view of the park comes to mind).

I wonder if this is just me, or if this has something to do with the point of this episode—about the multiplicity of viewpoints and perspective, in that when all viewpoints are considered, only then can one see the entire picture.

[HandofFate]

:O I never realized both had the same voice actors. Hachikuji just gets awesomer by the day!

[SwiftStrike]

this ep(story-wise)was better than ep 4

although visually, same appeal as the other eps. sometimes the characters look funny...other times, I'd love it

[Magin]

All that can be said about this episode is that it's the best so far... and admittedly, the one I was most anticipating, mostly due to the spoiler about Araragi and Senjougahara that I peeked at before the mods got to it

and to think we now have to wait an extra week for our Beauty and Beast...

[Reckoner]

Finally caught up with the anime.

It remains to be impressive, there is not much to say that hasn't already been said.

Like Sorrow-K said, the characters are quite charming because they simply say what is on their mind and don't really hide their feelings.

[Daniel E.]

Well, I sure as hell don't like it when they resort to images of real people. Can't really say why, though; Just wish they'll stop using them. >_<

Regardless, I am still prety sold on the show and as pretty much everyone has already said, it is so because of the characters.