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Old 2006-10-20, 10:54   Link #41
T1BillionX
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The death was wasted on Asuma. They should have fleshed him out more. He was totaly undeveloped. If someone had to die how about Iruka, that would make Naruto better. Now that Asuma is dead time to see more Naruto.
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Old 2006-10-20, 11:05   Link #42
ChaosWing
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Originally Posted by tramadrama View Post
Well, a country without its guardian is like a broken condom. Where were these guys when Itachi and Kisame and other mishaps happened in Konoha? Kishi got bored.

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But that's because Kishi probably just thought about the guardian concept AFTER Itachi and Kisame invaded to capture Naruto.
Case in point, on the bad writing. Stay within your own premise, Kishi.
If this were true Asuma would not be wearing that cloth with the guardian character in chapters way before these events [examples: ch35 page 5; ch119 page 9].
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Old 2006-10-20, 11:11   Link #43
tramadrama
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Originally Posted by ChaosWing
If this were true Asuma would not be wearing that cloth with the guardian character in chapters way before these events [examples: ch35 page 5; ch119 page 9].
Could be a chicken egg thing, in a way. Did Kishi build the premise of the guardian characters, based off of Asuma's design, or did Kishi have the guardians on his mind way back then? We would never know until Kishi said so. I personally think he made the guardian characters based on Asuma's design and said, "Hey, I can make characters based off of Asuma's cloth."

Then, that one little idea was killed quickly.
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Old 2006-10-20, 11:23   Link #44
Sabaku Kyu
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Just because Asuma is dead doesn't mean they won't possibly elaborate more on his back story. It's likely that Kakashi, Gai, Kurenai and others know plenty about Asuma's past with the 12 guardians and his relationship with the 3rd. If these elements are in anyway revelant to plot, I'm sure that they will be explained by the other characters.

I can also see why so many are disappointed that Asuma was given a better death, but keep in mind that Kakashi almost died just as easily at the hands of Itachi. And what was Asuma supposed to do? He had already been stabbed in the leg and burned with his own Katon justus and still managed to cut off Hidan's head. There was no way he could've predicted that Kakuzu could sew Hidan's head back on and there was nothing he could do to prevent it. He was in a situation where he was injured, his own attacks were not only useless but also harmed him, and there was no way he could avoid Hidan's attacks. That's pretty much a hopeless situation. If anything, Hidan's cheapness as character should be blamed and not Asuma's fighting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tramadrama
Well, a country without its guardian is like a broken condom. Where were these guys when Itachi and Kisame and other mishaps happened in Konoha? Kishi got bored.
The guardians are monks and protect the temple, not the Fire Country or Konoha village. Protection of the village is the job of the Hokage and the village ninja.
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Old 2006-10-20, 11:43   Link #45
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Originally Posted by tramadrama View Post
Could be a chicken egg thing, in a way. Did Kishi build the premise of the guardian characters, based off of Asuma's design, or did Kishi have the guardians on his mind way back then? We would never know until Kishi said so. I personally think he made the guardian characters based on Asuma's design and said, "Hey, I can make characters based off of Asuma's cloth."

Then, that one little idea was killed quickly.
Yeah, for example Kishimot Openly admitted that the Symbol Naruto has on his Clothes does not have any meaning right now, but he is toying with the idea of Making it something that has to do with future plots .
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Old 2006-10-20, 12:27   Link #46
Suna no tate
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
I can also see why so many are disappointed that Asuma was given a better death, but keep in mind that Kakashi almost died just as easily at the hands of Itachi. And what was Asuma supposed to do? He had already been stabbed in the leg and burned with his own Katon justus and still managed to cut off Hidan's head. There was no way he could've predicted that Kakuzu could sew Hidan's head back on and there was nothing he could do to prevent it. He was in a situation where he was injured, his own attacks were not only useless but also harmed him, and there was no way he could avoid Hidan's attacks. That's pretty much a hopeless situation. If anything, Hidan's cheapness as character should be blamed and not Asuma's fighting.

The guardians are monks and protect the temple, not the Fire Country or Konoha village. Protection of the village is the job of the Hokage and the village ninja.
Actually you are hitting on something here about the cheapness of these akatsuki members and their wins. Gaara lost to Deidara in a rather questionable and cheap manner. Sasori uses poison that kills with one scratch. Itachi has what surmounts to a death stare in addition to amaterasu. Hidan is immortal and repairable. The leader uses telepathy. Kakuzu also looks like he'll have some cheap trick behind him. So far the only person I respect as a real villain is that Kisame; at least he's balanced. None of the good guys have any such tricks (aside from kakashi's recent development). So yes I agree with you. Hidan as a character was cheap.
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Old 2006-10-20, 12:30   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Suna no tate View Post
Actually you are hitting on something here about the cheapness of these akatsuki members and their wins. Gaara lost to Deidara in a rather questionable and cheap manner. Sasori uses poison that kills with one scratch. Itachi has what surmounts to a death stare in addition to amaterasu. Hidan is immortal and repairable. The leader uses telepathy. Kakuzu also looks like he'll have some cheap trick behind him. So far the only person I respect as a real villain is that Kisame; at least he's balanced. None of the good guys have any such tricks (aside from kakashi's recent development). So yes I agree with you. Hidan as a character was cheap.


I wont called it cheep,, maybe just too powerful compared to the ones that fight wiht them.

And Itachi is also Balanced...well, unless you are those who also thinks sharingan is a Cheep Tool.
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Old 2006-10-20, 12:49   Link #48
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Sucks that Asuma's dead only because he had a girlfriend. Someone left behind kind of thing. If Kakashi was with them, Hidan would've been dead. His form of Mangekyou could send the head to another dimension or something, and that would be that. Although, we still don't know much about Kakuzu's weaknesses since all we know is he can reattach Hidan's parts and his arms fly off.
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Old 2006-10-20, 13:22   Link #49
Suna no tate
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I wont called it cheep,, maybe just too powerful compared to the ones that fight wiht them.

And Itachi is also Balanced...well, unless you are those who also thinks sharingan is a Cheep Tool.
Well... actually I am! The genjutsu is ok and genjutsu reversal too. The copying is fine. But the fact that it has no apparent weakness is cheap. The taijutsu thing isn't really a weakness because for some reason as soon as you see something then you can keep up with it (which is stupid). Sasuke couldn't see orochimaru's movements and naruto's movements at first. Then he can see the movements with the sharingan and can somehow move is body fast enough to keep up. If he couldn't keep up at first, he shouldn't be able to suddenly move fast enough to keep up in the end, regardless of whether or not he can see the movements. His body just isn't that fast! So yeah the sharingan is cheap, since it grants way too much power. When you have sasuke, defeating orochimaru at such an early stage and have 13 year old ANBU leaders, you definetly know its a cheap jutsu.
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Old 2006-10-20, 14:53   Link #50
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The guardians are monks and protect the temple, not the Fire Country or Konoha village. Protection of the village is the job of the Hokage and the village ninja.
So you mean to tell me that any terrorist can just walk through the front door? I haven't seen any airplanes so no one can sky dive in.
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Old 2006-10-20, 15:05   Link #51
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by tramadrama
So you mean to tell me that any terrorist can just walk through the front door? I haven't seen any airplanes so no one can sky dive in.
No. What I'm saying is that the 12 guardians were given the specific task of protecting the temple. They don't abandon that task just because there is another threat. Think about the Secret Service, they aren't going to abandon the White House because terrorists are threatening people elsewhere. They will only act if the President is in direct danger. The military protects the people. The same thing applies to Naruto's world. The jounin, chuunin, ANBU and occasionally genin handle threats to Konoha's borders, the guardians guard the temple
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Old 2006-10-20, 15:09   Link #52
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Originally Posted by T1BillionX View Post
The death was wasted on Asuma. They should have fleshed him out more. He was totaly undeveloped. If someone had to die how about Iruka, that would make Naruto better. Now that Asuma is dead time to see more Naruto.
Yeah i agree....Iruka would be best the best good character to die.

Now a rare sensei in the area of "wind" based chakra is gone.

What will Naruto do now? Go to Gaara or something?
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Old 2006-10-20, 15:18   Link #53
tramadrama
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
No. What I'm saying is that the 12 guardians were given the specific task of protecting the temple. They don't abandon that task just because there is another threat. Think about the Secret Service, they aren't going to abandon the White House because terrorists are threatening people elsewhere. They will only act if the President is in direct danger. The military protects the people. The same thing applies to Naruto's world. The jounin, chuunin, ANBU and occasionally genin handle threats to Konoha's borders, the guardians guard the temple
But I thought the only way to get into Konoha was the by the way of the temple?
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Old 2006-10-20, 15:31   Link #54
Sabaku Kyu
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But I thought the only way to get into Konoha was the by the way of the temple?
Huh? I don't remember that being stated. Not exactly sure, but I think Konoha already has its own gates which are shut in times of attack. The temple is in fire country but at least a few miles away from Konoha itself. Kakuzu and Hidan took a detour to collect the bounty on Chiriku.
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Old 2006-10-20, 15:32   Link #55
Suna no tate
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Itachi and Kisame seemed to have no trouble at all. Konoha is just one village in a very large country. The exact importance of the temple is unclear to me.
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Old 2006-10-20, 15:39   Link #56
tramadrama
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Huh? I don't remember that being stated. Not exactly sure, but I think Konoha already has its own gates which are shut in times of attack. The temple is in fire country but at least a few miles away from Konoha itself. Kakuzu and Hidan took a detour to collect the bounty on Chiriku.
Well, if that is the case, then that is even worse. If there are multiple entrances into Fire Country, does that mean that some entrances lack guardians? My God, if Itachi and Kisame took an alternative path into Fire Country, then the next couple of chapters should deal with Fire Country's villages getting together for a better way with Homeland Security. Because this truly sucks how Konoha keeps getting infiltrated. How can they even be considered as a stronger village if anyone that chooses to infiltrate it do just that. Maybe some villages in the Fire Country have issues with Konoha and are taking money for terrorist to simply walk through door.

Note: This is me simply writing within the scope of the manga. I'm not going to analyze the obvious reasons (writing choice) that caused all of this. I'm simply saying that Tsuande is the worst Hokage that Fire Country's had. She sucks at gambling and it continues to show.
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Old 2006-10-20, 15:48   Link #57
Suna no tate
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Asde from failing to have the anbu go after akatsuki instead of regular jounns and chuunins, how is tsunade a failure? she seems no better or worse than the 3rd in my mind.
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Old 2006-10-20, 15:56   Link #58
Suna no tate
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Here are some major failures of the third for eg:

1)Lets scroll of forbidden jutsus be stolen by an academy student
2) allows murderer of an entire clan, and one of the more prominent clans too, to commit the murders and escape unharmed and untouched
3)fails to adequately prepare for orochimaru's attack though he had some indication of when and where it would take place
4) was completely unaware of the gathering of powerful nins like the akatsuki leader and his organization
5) had no successor chosen despite his growing age
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Old 2006-10-20, 16:04   Link #59
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Originally Posted by Suna no tate
Asde from failing to have the anbu go after akatsuki instead of regular jounns and chuunins, how is tsunade a failure? she seems no better or worse than the 3rd in my mind.
Asuma wasn't a regular jounin and if she sent anbu they would of been killed without that much trouble.
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Old 2006-10-20, 16:12   Link #60
AznSoulBoy
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Wow u guys...How can he come up with any other techniques when he got his heart stabbed lol u guys are funny. Im totally agreed with Sabakyu

"I can also see why so many are disappointed that Asuma was given a better death, but keep in mind that Kakashi almost died just as easily at the hands of Itachi. And what was Asuma supposed to do? He had already been stabbed in the leg and burned with his own Katon justus and still managed to cut off Hidan's head. There was no way he could've predicted that Kakuzu could sew Hidan's head back on and there was nothing he could do to prevent it. He was in a situation where he was injured, his own attacks were not only useless but also harmed him, and there was no way he could avoid Hidan's attacks. That's pretty much a hopeless situation. If anything, Hidan's cheapness as character should be blamed and not Asuma's fighting."


Anyway, It was sad =[ now I wonder what Kurenai will she do xD.
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