Amagami SS - Episode 24 Discussion / Poll

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Mentar

I need to disagree here: In the Tsukasa arc, we see Junichi at his best. Yes, he botched a key exchange leading to Tsukasa misunderstanding his intention completely, but other than that, he was doing very well. It's also the first arc in which Junichi makes a mature conscious decision for a girl that is NOT born out of a mere crush or simple lust. A linkup on eye level.

His post-hug confession-explanation was excellent, and his "Thank god. The Ayatsuji-san I love still exists" line was just the perfect pick. Chapeau!

I totally agree. This Junichi was the best. All of the others were detestable or not quite "there." But this one was great and I think it was partly thanks to Tsukasa and how their relationship developed, like you said.

They really did save the best for last.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

And I don't think Junichi was bad or insensitive to suggest that Tsukasa apologize. Remember that her outburst had turned many of the students against her and limited the help to just a few people. Tsukasa was already stressed and exhausted, which probably added to her sudden decision to drop the facade in front of the whole class. This meant that there weren't enough people working to get the job done. Junichi just didn't want Tsukasa to overwork herself again and get sick, and since he knew that even if he worked all night every night it wouldn't be enough to stop that, so he suggested for her sake that she swallow her pride and try to get the people to help once more. I'm sorry but in this case a loved one's life is more important than her feelings.

Yes, at the very least I would say that his heart was in the right place when he made the suggestion, but it had consequences that he didn't consider because he didn't understand Tsukasa well at the time. His big mistake was in stating that he understood her when he didn't (he only thought he did), which gave Tsukasa the wrong impression.

Really, if they didn't have that little fight/misunderstanding that brought the issue to the surface, I'm not sure if they ever would have been able to understand each other and reconcile. Junichi isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer and doesn't have the advantage of our full perspective on events, so I don't think we can really blame him all that much. If he understood then what he understood by the end, then I'm sure he would have worded things differently, but that's hindsight for you...

Basically, you don't judge a couple by their fights/arguments (which are going to happen no matter what), but by their ability to reconcile and forgive each other. If anything, the fact they even had a fight arguably makes their relationship a bit deeper than some of the others portrayed.

[Himeji]

Originally Posted by grandchaosSR

So I guess Junichi in Tsukasa arc is his worst version yet. Anyway its the writers fault if they botched the ending. They have been cramming too many themes/scenes in an episode since Ai arc...

Yes, Jun'ichi is definitely by far at his worst in the Tsukasa arc, given how horribly he botched things. In no other arc, he made me want to kick him into his balls really bad for what he did to Tsukasa

Originally Posted by Divini

Wow, the awesomeness of those "10 years later" scenes makes me wish so much they did it for Kaoru, Sae, Ai, and Rihoko.... especially Rihoko.

If they'd made a "10 years after" with Rihoko, we only would've seen how her diet plans still haven't gone anywhere, and that she's still stuffing herself all the same with cream puffs and whatnot without doing any sports. As a result, she's then become *really* fat, like 200kg or something

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

Since they were 2nd years in HS, assuming they went to university immediately that would mean they married 5 years after the story, 5 years before the scene with the daughter. That girl is not a mere 4 1/2 years old. I could see her as 7 or 8, which would mean they married and conceived pretty much right after graduating highschool.

Yes, she must've conceived right after finishing high school - and that seems extremely unlikely for a girl like tsukasa. She's at the very least wait until she has finished university.

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

And I don't think Junichi was bad or insensitive to suggest that Tsukasa apologize.

Very wrong, it was *extremely* insensitive. It was telling her that her true self should go to hell, and that only with her facade, she would be getting anywhere. It really was the most stupid and insensitive thing he could've been saying.

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

Remember that her outburst had turned many of the students against her and limited the help to just a few people.

Wrong again. The only ones that had made angry were bitch girl and her two friends. The others in the class didn't give a damn either way and were already before too lazy to help with the festival, and after they were still to lazy. No change there.

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

there weren't enough people working to get the job done.

True, but that was already the same even before.

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

Junichi just didn't want Tsukasa to overwork herself again and get sick

The reason why Tsukasa overworked herself is that she set herself far too big goals, which got ever more and more unreasonably big. Her overworking was inevitable like that.
What Tsukasa would have really needed would have been an insight that she urgently needs to cut back on her totally overblown ambitions, and needs to cut them back to a realistic size to prevent overworking herself.
After cutting back the festival activities to a reasonable size she can do with the few people helping her, she should have announced this to the class: "I have been asking for help with the festival several times here, but people were totally unwilling to help. As a result, I will not be able to realise all planned festival activities and cut back on them. You have no one to blame for this but yourself."

On the whole, I'm quite shocked at how many in this thread think that behaving like a jerk is fully ok

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Himeji

Wrong again. The only ones that had made angry were bitch girl and her two friends. The others in the class didn't give a damn either way and were already before too lazy to help with the festival, and after they were still to lazy. No change there.

You're wrong on this point in particular. The rest of the class was helping out when the three girls were kept happy. But then, after the blow up, the rest of the class became too timid to step in the middle of the conflict so stayed away. This was also reflected during the dodgeball game where the three girls had most of the rest of the girls on their side (minus the few who later defected). When Tsukasa made up with the three girls, the turning point was when the three girls overheard other people in the class being sympathetic to Tsukasa -- the tide of public opinion had turned away from the three girls, and towards Tsukasa. That's why the girls forgave her; not because Tsukasa was sorry, but because they were always more concerned about their image than anything else. They're just that vain.

So anyway, on this point in particular, Seiryuu is correct.

Originally Posted by Himeji

What Tsukasa would have really needed would have been an insight that she urgently needs to cut back on her totally overblown ambitions, and needs to cut them back to a realistic size to prevent overworking herself.

Incidentally, Junichi did suggest this to her as well (after the teacher also suggested it to her), but she refused both times due to her pride.

[Knightrunner]

I wonder why they decorate the Xmas tree last when it is the main attraction.

[Qikz]

Awesome ending to a great arc. Although when she dropkicked him. I was so sure it was going to be a nice boat. Tsukasa with short hair was also, very, very cute. <3

[GundamZZ]

Perhaps they are busy with wood work. Decoration is pretty easy in comparison.
I was wondering about Junichi's request for Tsukasa. I thought he said that he wishes her to have his child. The English subtitle is that he wishes her to bring him happiness. Oh well.

[Qikz]

Wait, just noticed the bit after the credits... I thought this was only 24 episodes! Not that I'm complaining.

[Seiryuu]

Originally Posted by Himeji

Yes, Jun'ichi is definitely by far at his worst in the Tsukasa arc, given how horribly he botched things. In no other arc, he made me want to kick him into his balls really bad for what he did to Tsukasa



If they'd made a "10 years after" with Rihoko, we only would've seen how her diet plans still haven't gone anywhere, and that she's still stuffing herself all the same with cream puffs and whatnot without doing any sports. As a result, she's then become *really* fat, like 200kg or something



Yes, she must've conceived right after finishing high school - and that seems extremely unlikely for a girl like tsukasa. She's at the very least wait until she has finished university.



Very wrong, it was *extremely* insensitive. It was telling her that her true self should go to hell, and that only with her facade, she would be getting anywhere. It really was the most stupid and insensitive thing he could've been saying.



Wrong again. The only ones that had made angry were bitch girl and her two friends. The others in the class didn't give a damn either way and were already before too lazy to help with the festival, and after they were still to lazy. No change there.



True, but that was already the same even before.



The reason why Tsukasa overworked herself is that she set herself far too big goals, which got ever more and more unreasonably big. Her overworking was inevitable like that.
What Tsukasa would have really needed would have been an insight that she urgently needs to cut back on her totally overblown ambitions, and needs to cut them back to a realistic size to prevent overworking herself.
After cutting back the festival activities to a reasonable size she can do with the few people helping her, she should have announced this to the class: "I have been asking for help with the festival several times here, but people were totally unwilling to help. As a result, I will not be able to realise all planned festival activities and cut back on them. You have no one to blame for this but yourself."

On the whole, I'm quite shocked at how many in this thread think that behaving like a jerk is fully ok

Seriously, take another look. They'd gotten enough people together to get the job done by asking the class for help. Tsukasa had no longer needed to push herself to the point of collapse to finish on time. Everyone was there and willingly helping out, aside from the three. Then those three made a fuss and tried to make Tsukasa look bad, and she blew up on them. As a result, only a few people bothered to oppose the bullying she was subjected to, and only three people bothered to help. Everyone else left.

And Junichi didn't tell her to throw away her "dark" side or that she'd get nowhere with that side. What he said was that he knew she was giving everything to make the festival a success, but if they didn't get help they wouldn't be able to make it, and that he didn't want her to work herself to death to make it work. He then said to her that they should EITHER apologize to everyone and ask for help or, if she wouldn't do that, remove some of the events and cut back what you noted were very unreasonable goals. If he'd simply said that she was trying to do too much, it would've gotten him nowhere, so he presented her with her options. He simply tried to make her face the reality that to obtain the amount she wanted she would need to get help even if she hated it, and have her choose between her pride and her excessive objectives before carrying both killed her.

If he'd said that she should apologize and that it would all fail if she didn't, then I would agree with the sentiment, but he was careful to make it clear that the problem wasn't her personality, but rather the fact that her ambitions demanded more than was possible without help. He was certainly stupid in the way he put some things, but he was trying to be sensitive and look out for her. And he wanted her to realize the impasse she was at and choose which bitter pill to swallow before refusing both WOULD cause everything to come crashing down.

[grandchaosSR]

I think what Himeji is trying to point is this: Junichi wanted the festival to succeed but he shouldn't force Tsukasa to apologize to the 3 Evil Girls. Why not do it himself? Why should Tsukasa humiliate herself and apologize to the people that started this problem? So in the end Junichi gets minus points from me for being insensitive...

Anyway Junichi in Kaoru's arc is still the best for me...

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by grandchaosSR

I think what Himeji is trying to point is this: Junichi wanted the festival to succeed but he shouldn't force Tsukasa to apologize to the 3 Evil Girls. Why not do it himself? Why should Tsukasa humiliate herself and apologize to the people that started this problem? So in the end Junichi gets minus points from me for being insensitive...

I really don't see how him apologizing is going to help anything; they're not going to forgive Tsukasa because he apologizes, and part of their problem in the first place was that they felt she was wasting her time being lovey-dovey with him while they were being asked to do "her" work. Even if he apologizes on her behalf, do you really think they'll be satisfied with that? They'd probably laugh at the "boyfriend" trying to save the day and stand up for "that witch". If someone was going to apologize, it had to be the one who did the "wrong". Whether you actually think she was wrong to scold them or not is not really the point (I don't think anybody thinks those girls were in the right here...).

Again, his objective was only that something be done to save the festival without Tsukasa collapsing of overwork again. It wasn't intended to be insensitive, it only came across that way because of the way he stated things in the heat of the moment. Apologizing was one of the options he put on the table as a way of trying to get the class to help out again (and note that that was exactly what she did in the end, and it did get the class to help out again -- though at a cost).

The reason why Tsukasa was upset was totally understandable given her situation, but Junichi's point of view is also quite understandable and wasn't intended as a bad thing. He had no way of piecing together things the way we did with our third-party point of view. Once he finally was able to piece things together, he did the right thing and healed the wound he unintentionally caused.

(Edit: It occurs to me that there actually is an argument that could be made that even the perspective of the 3 Girls is not without merit... but it's really not worth arguing for their sake because they repeatedly showed themselves to be shallow and petty.)

[grandchaosSR]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I really don't see how him apologizing is going to help anything; they're not going to forgive Tsukasa because he apologizes, and part of their problem in the first place was that they felt she was wasting her time being lovey-dovey with him while they were being asked to do "her" work. Even if he apologizes on her behalf, do you really think they'll be satisfied with that? They'd probably laugh at the "boyfriend" trying to save the day and stand up for "that witch". If someone was going to apologize, it had to be the one who did the "wrong". Whether you actually think she was wrong to scold them or not is not really the point (I don't think anybody thinks those girls were in the right here...).

Tsukasa didn't start the problem. Like what you said the 3 Evil Girls should be the one asking for an apology not Tsukasa.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Again, his objective was only that something be done to save the festival without Tsukasa collapsing of overwork again. It wasn't intended to be insensitive, it only came across that way because of the way he stated things in the heat of the moment. Apologizing was one of the options he put on the table as a way of trying to get the class to help out again (and note that that was exactly what she did in the end, and it did get the class to help out again -- though at a cost).

But that doesn't erase the fact that he was insensitive and that's why Tsukasa slaps him in episode 3. There are many options that Junichi could've done to prevent Tsukasa from experiencing humiliation.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

The reason why Tsukasa was upset was totally understandable given her situation, but Junichi's point of view is also quite understandable and wasn't intended as a bad thing. He had no way of piecing together things the way we did with our third-party point of view. Once he finally was able to piece things together, he did the right thing and healed the wound he unintentionally caused.

Junichi didn't totally understood Tsukasa's personality. They had an argument in episode 3(the part before she slaps him) because Tsukasa thought that he understands how she feels. But suddenly he wanted her to ask help to the people that wronged her or scrap some festival events. Next morning Junichi was completely dumbfounded that Tsukasa became her facade again and then questions her why is she asking the class to help in the festival?
(Isn't Junichi contradicting himself?)

Fast forward to episode 4, the part when she uses a flying knee strike. Why do you think Tsukasa cried? Because Tsukasa already discarded her True Self and is now using her Facade and Junichi basically tells her that he likes Tsukasa's "True Self" more than the Facade. But yeah I know that Junichi told her that he likes both of her personality.

So like what I've been telling you guys that Junichi was insensitive to Tsukasa. This can't be Junichi's best version just because they had a child in the end when in the other arcs he was more caring to the heroine like in the Kaoru arc. I'm not putting down Tsukasa or her arc. I'm actually trying to defend Tsukasa's feelings by revealing Junichi's mistakes to her.

Bottomline: Making a girl cry twice isn't good in my book...

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by grandchaosSR

Tsukasa didn't start the problem. Like what you said the 3 Evil Girls should be the one asking for an apology not Tsukasa.

The three girls were being insensitive clods. But, they were doing a favour to Tsukasa by helping her out with the Festival. It's not a position they signed up for (unlike Tsukasa and Junichi) so they were under no obligation. And Tsukasa asked for help when she was falling behind on the schedule, and the girls happened to see a few scenes with Junichi that they misconstrued. They were being presumptive and mean-spirited, but by unleashing on them the way she did, she not only "put them in their place", but she also scared away most of the rest of the help she had.

It's really not so cut-and-dry. Yes, they deserved a speaking-to, but doing that jeopardized the Festival. When you're in a position of leadership, sometimes you have to not say what you think all the time, because it may be hurtful to others or even to your own position. Of course, Tsukasa takes that way too far due to the extreme facade she puts up, but Junichi didn't fully understand that at the time.

Originally Posted by grandchaosSR

But that doesn't erase the fact that he was insensitive and that's why Tsukasa slaps him in episode 3. There are many options that Junichi could've done to prevent Tsukasa from experiencing humiliation.

Not given the terms she was laying out. She didn't want to ask for forgiveness, or cut down on the scope of work, or do anything other than believe "if I just try harder, we'll make it!" And why? Because she was being stubborn and prideful. That's exactly what made her collapse before. She was trying to shoulder all the burden by herself, and that's why he had to stop her.

Yes, there were better ways he could have phrased things for sure if he had understood her issues better, but she was going to be humiliated no matter what unless something changed.

Originally Posted by grandchaosSR

Junichi didn't totally understood Tsukasa's personality. They had an argument in episode 3(the part before she slaps him) because Tsukasa thought that he understands how she feels. But suddenly he wanted her to ask help to the people that wronged her or scrap some festival events. Next morning Junichi was completely dumbfounded that Tsukasa became her facade again and then questions her why is she asking the class to help in the festival?
(Isn't Junichi contradicting himself?)

No, there's no contradiction at all. He didn't understand what had changed between the night before (when she was so against it) and the next day (when her behaviour was the complete opposite). He had no idea at the time that the reason for Tsukasa's changed behaviour was because she was trying to be what she thought he wanted her to be -- how was he supposed to figure that out? Clairvoyance? It became clear in time, but it's not exactly an easy thing to figure out given his perspective. He thought she should have been too stubborn to just give in like that, and her continued act was even more perplexing at the time

Originally Posted by grandchaosSR

Fast forward to episode 4, the part when she uses a flying knee strike. Why do you think Tsukasa cried? Because Tsukasa already discarded her True Self and is now using her Facade and Junichi basically tells her that he likes Tsukasa's "True Self" more than the Facade. But yeah I know that Junichi told her that he likes both of her personality.

But Junichi never told her "I want your facade back" -- that was her misunderstanding of his point. His point was "we need to do something to save the festival so that you don't kill yourself in the process", but that isn't what she heard. She made a decision to change who she was because she thought it would make Junichi happy, but she wasn't correct. Her crying in episode 4 was because she went through a lot of pain "because of" him, but that doesn't mean it was "his fault" either. It's a misunderstanding. Mostly she was crying because she could finally let go of the pain she was holding inside.

Originally Posted by grandchaosSR

I'm actually trying to defend Tsukasa's feelings by revealing Junichi's mistakes to her.

Bottomline: Making a girl cry twice isn't good in my book...

Tsukasa's feelings are understandable given her situation. But Junichi's actions are also understandable given his situation. There are two sides to every disagreement. You can't just pick one side of an argument and put the entire blame on the other side... well, you can, but that isn't realistic. My point is that no one in the situation is either blameless or entirely to blame. They had a BHF, they realized they were mistaken about each other, and they made up. Happy End.

[Mentar]

I mean, I've been arguing this point very strongly, so I feel I can chime in on relentlessflame's side without dark suspicions.

Junichi's ill-fated push in ep3 was what I still consider objectively poor advice. However, I wouldn't consider him a "jerk" for it, because the way Tsukasa took it was not how he meant it. It was a classic case of asymmetrical miscommunication. I bet that if someone had told him "Oi, you're aware that this is how she understood it, right?" he would jerk up like he was stung by a wasp and correct the misunderstanding.

Thing is that he did NOT really understand her. BUT in ep4, we see that he's perceptive enough to at least recognize the damage he had inadvertently done. And once he got over his moping period, I like how he handled it. For me, "Thank goodness. The Ayatsuji-san I love still exists" ranks very very high on the "best thing someone ever said" list. This, by the way, was the real confession; the moment when the two of them really linked up. It assuaged her biggest fears and implied a touching "I love you" in a short statement. At THAT moment, Ayatsuji - who was always extremely quick-thinking and perceptive - had heard everything she needed, and in this relief she was finally able to cry away her pent-up inner pressure.

What happened afterwards was only the relaxed cleanup of two linked souls. In this arc, and in fact in this arc only, I felt that Junichi made a mature and conscious decision to be with the girl. Not pressured by an idolizing crush like with Haruka, the "it's always been like this" with Kaoru or the sexual-attraction-tinged acceptances of Ai and Sae. This time, the choice was HIS to make, and he made it. Open-eyed and with calm and confidence.

So, I'm more in the "Junichi at his best" camp. Tsukasa forgave him for the misstep. We should too

[grandchaosSR]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

No, there's no contradiction at all. He didn't understand what had changed between the night before (when she was so against it) and the next day (when her behaviour was the complete opposite). He had no idea at the time that the reason for Tsukasa's changed behaviour was because she was trying to be what she thought he wanted her to be -- how was he supposed to figure that out? Clairvoyance? It became clear in time, but it's not exactly an easy thing to figure out given his perspective. He thought she should have been too stubborn to just give in like that, and her continued act was even more perplexing at the time

Like what I said earlier, Junichi didn't understand Tsukasa's personality.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Tsukasa's feelings are understandable given her situation. But Junichi's actions are also understandable given his situation. There are two sides to every disagreement. You can't just pick one side of an argument and put the entire blame on the other side... well, you can, but that isn't realistic. My point is that no one in the situation is either blameless or entirely to blame. They had a BHF, they realized they were mistaken about each other, and they made up. Happy End.

My point is Junichi is the not the best version in this arc. I'm not blaming him for everything that has happened to Tsukasa. If you think about it, I am just trying to explain Tsukasa's feelings during that time and your trying to explain Junichi's side.

Originally Posted by Mentar

I mean, I've been arguing this point very strongly, so I feel I can chime in on relentlessflame's side without dark suspicions.

Junichi's ill-fated push in ep3 was what I still consider objectively poor advice. However, I wouldn't consider him a "jerk" for it, because the way Tsukasa took it was not how he meant it. It was a classic case of asymmetrical miscommunication. I bet that if someone had told him "Oi, you're aware that this is how she understood it, right?" he would jerk up like he was stung by a wasp and correct the misunderstanding.

Thing is that he did NOT really understand her. BUT in ep4, we see that he's perceptive enough to at least recognize the damage he had inadvertently done. And once he got over his moping period, I like how he handled it. For me, "Thank goodness. The Ayatsuji-san I love still exists" ranks very very high on the "best thing someone ever said" list. This, by the way, was the real confession; the moment when the two of them really linked up. It assuaged her biggest fears and implied a touching "I love you" in a short statement. At THAT moment, Ayatsuji - who was always extremely quick-thinking and perceptive - had heard everything she needed, and in this relief she was finally able to cry away her pent-up inner pressure.

What happened afterwards was only the relaxed cleanup of two linked souls. In this arc, and in fact in this arc only, I felt that Junichi made a mature and conscious decision to be with the girl. Not pressured by an idolizing crush like with Haruka, the "it's always been like this" with Kaoru or the sexual-attraction-tinged acceptances of Ai and Sae. This time, the choice was HIS to make, and he made it. Open-eyed and with calm and confidence.

So, I'm more in the "Junichi at his best" camp. Tsukasa forgave him for the misstep. We should too

How can Junichi be the best version if he made a girl cry because of his insensitivity? Unlike in Kaoru's arc he was more caring and didn't step over Kaoru's feelings while his only flaw is that he was not aggressive like in Haruka arc?

Didn't Junichi accidentally groped Tsukasa? And he did enjoy seeing her wearing a swimsuit. So it only proves that he was also attracted to her in a sexual way.

[eplipswich]

Originally Posted by grandchaosSR

How can Junichi be the best version if he made a girl cry because of his insensitivity? Unlike in Kaoru's arc he was more caring and didn't step over Kaoru's feelings while his only flaw is that he was not aggressive like in Haruka arc?

Didn't Junichi accidentally groped Tsukasa? And he did enjoy seeing her wearing a swimsuit. So it only proves that he was also attracted to her in a sexual way.

I think you all have different concepts of what "best" is. I believe Mentar's perception of best is being able to overcome an obstacle. That he was bold to make the decision to solve the problem of making Tsukasa cry. Which is why he is the best in Tsukasa's arc. If he didn't even do it at all, it would make him the worst i believe.

In Kaoru's arc, there are no problems that arise in that because Junichi understood Kaoru much better than Tsukasa and hence knew how to handle the situation. Had Junichi actually known Tsukasa as long or longer than Kaoru, he wouldn't have been able to hurt Tsukasa. Why so? Because of how bold he eventually handled in handling Tsukasa even though he didn't know Tsukasa well.
Also, what if Kaoru is someone Junichi has never met before like Tsukasa? Would you think Junichi would be able to console Kaoru the same way? Maybe, maybe not. There's a doubt there.

That said, "best" is very subjective, though I myself believe he is best at Tsukasa's arc because of what i explained above and the fact that Tsukasa's personality, I believe, is the hardest of the 6 to handle, but Junichi handled it very well in the end. Kaoru's personality isn't really a challenge because he already knew her inside out, so while Junichi does have a great scene when he consoled Kaoru, i think it does not compare to how he managed to be brave enough to resolve the problem with Tsukasa in that scene.

It is the bold approach that he took in Tsukasa's arc that's what makes him the best version.

[Mentar]

Originally Posted by grandchaosSR

How can Junichi be the best version if he made a girl cry because of his insensitivity?

Because in this arc, he had by far the most problematic situation to master. Ayatsuji is very difficult to handle and even harder to understand. Yes, he stepped on a land mine, and no, he did NOT understand her back then. But how he eventually managed to put things in perspective, and to convey to her _exactly_ the right things in the right way, was very impressive in my book. In this arc, it was effectively HIM who made the final decision to be with the girl, and he then confessed to her in the classroom scene. I found that very admirable.

Unlike in Kaoru's arc he was more caring and didn't step over Kaoru's feelings while his only flaw is that he was not aggressive like in Haruka arc?

Because in Kaoru's arc, he more or less had to do nothing more than going with the flow. No real issues, no real development other than gradual acceptance of their mutual attraction. One can applaud that as "natural development", I call this "victory by default". No effort.

Didn't Junichi accidentally groped Tsukasa? And he did enjoy seeing her wearing a swimsuit. So it only proves that he was also attracted to her in a sexual way.

Yes, certainly. I mean, at least to my eyes, Facade Tsukasa is a stunner already, and showing her playful Inner side elevates her to Minx Goddess. My point is however that with Tsukasa, things ran deeper than mere physical attraction. What he really fell in love with was her spunk and spirit. He simply enjoyed being with her, spending time with her, working with her. No desire to kiss her behind the knees or at the belly button, to see below her skirt like with Ai, and no senpai-kouhai games with Glamorous Body.

The sexual attraction took a backseat with Tsukasa. What he truly desired was her Inner personality. And that puts this arc in a different league than the others.

[XxanimefreakxX]

Amagami is No.1 on my list, its just so damn awesome, especially tsuakasa's arc, its the best arc in the anime, i really liked ep 24, but wat i mostly liked is that juinkchi and tsukasa got married, thats what i was shocked and amazed about at the same timeO_o. NOW!! i really cant wait for ep 25, i know its gonna rock:P

[Himeji]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Incidentally, Junichi did suggest this to her as well (after the teacher also suggested it to her), but she refused both times due to her pride.

So she did turn down that because of pride, but didn't turn down the extremely humiliating apologising, which was totally unjustified in the first place?
That makes no sense whatsoever.

Originally Posted by grandchaosSR

I think what Himeji is trying to point is this: Junichi wanted the festival to succeed but he shouldn't force Tsukasa to apologize to the 3 Evil Girls. Why not do it himself? Why should Tsukasa humiliate herself and apologize to the people that started this problem? So in the end Junichi gets minus points from me for being insensitive...

Thanks, finally someone who understood it

Originally Posted by grandchaosSR

Tsukasa didn't start the problem. Like what you said the 3 Evil Girls should be the one asking for an apology not Tsukasa.

That's the point exactly. The bitch girls are the ones who need to apologise.

Originally Posted by grandchaosSR

But that doesn't erase the fact that he was insensitive and that's why Tsukasa slaps him in episode 3. There are many options that Junichi could've done to prevent Tsukasa from experiencing humiliation.

Yes, Jun'ichi could've done a lot of things to prevent it, but he failed to do anything there.

Originally Posted by grandchaosSR

Junichi didn't totally understood Tsukasa's personality. They had an argument in episode 3(the part before she slaps him) because Tsukasa thought that he understands how she feels. But suddenly he wanted her to ask help to the people that wronged her or scrap some festival events. Next morning Junichi was completely dumbfounded that Tsukasa became her facade again and then questions her why is she asking the class to help in the festival?
(Isn't Junichi contradicting himself?)

Jun'ichi really did have a very poor understanding of Tsukasa's feelings and thus did trample all over them. There's really no need to be all surprised at how Tsukasa acts then because he hurt her that badly.

Originally Posted by grandchaosSR

Fast forward to episode 4, the part when she uses a flying knee strike. Why do you think Tsukasa cried? Because Tsukasa already discarded her True Self and is now using her Facade and Junichi basically tells her that he likes Tsukasa's "True Self" more than the Facade. But yeah I know that Junichi told her that he likes both of her personality.

Actually no, he *doesn't* tell her that he likes her true self more. The only thing he reluctantly tells her, and only reluctantly after his friend talked some sense into his head, is that he likes both parts the same, which still isn't very sensitive. It doesn't sound very honest either and sounds like he does actually prefer her facade and will just put up with the facade if he really has to.

Originally Posted by grandchaosSR

So like what I've been telling you guys that Junichi was insensitive to Tsukasa. This can't be Junichi's best version just because they had a child in the end when in the other arcs he was more caring to the heroine like in the Kaoru arc. I'm not putting down Tsukasa or her arc. I'm actually trying to defend Tsukasa's feelings by revealing Junichi's mistakes to her.

Bottomline: Making a girl cry twice isn't good in my book...

It isn't any good indeed. The Jun'ichi that tramples all over Tsukasa's feelings (even if it was unintentionally because he totally failed to understand her) certainly can't be the best one, rather the very opposite. Citing the fudged end with the very sudden and totally unbelievable make-up and the unfitting 10-years-later scene is just ludicrous

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Himeji

So she did turn down that because of pride, but didn't turn down the extremely humiliating apologising, which was totally unjustified in the first place?
That makes no sense whatsoever.

Exactly why Junichi was so confused about it!

Anyway, there's little point in continuing to discuss this issue, as it seems unlikely that an agreement will be reached on how to interpret this content. The arguments have been duly presented; the undecideds may now decide for themselves.