What's your religion?

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Theowne

Do you really believe that? If you have been to China outside of Beijing or Shanghai or all the hyped news stories in the past while, I don't think one would hold that opinion....

China meets the basic economic requirments to be called a first world power. Obviously, they have a long way to go culture wise (specifically the acceptance of foreign influences, amongst many, many other issues). If nothing else, they exist right out side of the sphere known as "First World", but well above those nations assigned the "Third World" status (of which there are few save for China).

edit: excuse me, I meant to say "Third" instead of "Second.

[2H-Dragon]

Originally Posted by james3wk

China meets the basic economic requirments to be called a first world power. Obviously, they have a long way to go culture wise (specifically the acceptance of foreign influences, amongst many, many other issues). If nothing else, they exist right out side of the sphere known as "First World", but well above those nations assigned the "Second World" status (of which there are few save for China).

Still what is the social norm to be called a 1st world country? Some states in the US don't seem to give a fuck about international law. o-O Renting out ground in another country so that US rules don't apply is an iterresting thing too. Same difference if you ask me. China just does it openly. So China is will be socially ok if they do it in secret? =o I do admit China does it on a much larger scale. >_>

[Vexx]

The original meanings of "1st world, 2nd world, 3rd world" were
US and allies (mostly Europe, Japan, Korea, Australia) == 1,
Iron Curtain and Communist countries (mostly Soviet Union/China) == 2,
Everyone else == 3.

It is purely a US-centric Cold War definition and has nothing to do with tech/soc/cultural status.

Today, the terms are meaningless, though the "3rd world" label still gets tosses around a bit as a pejorative.

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Irenicus

Spoiler for same reason:

That isn't diversity so much as it is, well, population pulling weight, though.

It doesn't matter if it's Chinese immigrants or Civil War veterans who get to hold the hammer; if it's nailed, then it's nailed, and the pig irons will run.

Plus, America was quite xenophobic. The Irish, the Mormons, the Chinese, the Japanese, and of course the Mexicans*, among others, will attest to that. It was just a big enough place that xenophobia -- which is often synonymous with racism, despite being different concepts -- didn't ever have to express itself in mass killings and pogroms. That didn't stop the race riots, though.

Last I'll say on this, since it is a bit off-topic.

Spoiler:

The U.S. had a system in place for immigrants to come into the country fairly easily despite the certain spurts of anti-immigrant laws (That didn't last very long anyway) and political parties like the no-nothings. After the Civil War, we lost a huge labor force that was easily manageable and fairly cheap compared to hiring white folk. Fortunately due to groups like the Irish, we were able to still get a moderately cheap labor force.

In America there has been a trend of culture mixing, ever since the days of the revolution with the Germans. People seeking opportunity came here, because they were able to live their own group of people and work their communities up in social status. The Irish eventually became a people to be reckoned with, the Chinese eventually got situated as we can see today, and I would assume the same for the Mexicans today in California.

Yes we were a xenophobic nation, but we were still diverse. It is not like a European moving to Japan and then being unable to find a place to fit in. When immigrants came here, they could be with their own people and even just keep speaking their language. It was the kids who learned English and taught everyone else. Not only that, the factories offered plenty of labor.

Essentially our cultural diversity drew in our immigrants who would be our cheap labor, who would fuel our industrial revolution. The diversity allowed a comfortable environment for these immigrants to eventually get ingrained in our society. We still have immigrants coming today that are doing the jobs that no one wants to do.

There are many other things that the diversity helped us with, but I hope I gave you a picture of my viewpoint.

[Theowne]

Originally Posted by james3wk

China meets the basic economic requirments to be called a first world power. Obviously, they have a long way to go culture wise (specifically the acceptance of foreign influences, amongst many, many other issues). If nothing else, they exist right out side of the sphere known as "First World", but well above those nations assigned the "Third World" status (of which there are few save for China).

edit: excuse me, I meant to say "Third" instead of "Second.

What are those requirements? Let's say, we compare GDP per capita: United States: 45,845 , Canada: 38,435 , Finland: 35,280. People's Republic of China: 5,292.

Similarly, in the list of countries by HDI (Human development index), China is surrounded by countries like Columbia, Jordan and Venezuala, rather than by countries like Finland or Canada. They are only slightly higher than Fiji, Jamaica and Iran.

If we then turn to something like poverty, China has managed to drastically reduce the number of people living on less than $1 dollar a day, however, the amount of people living under $2 dollars a day is still 35%, which is more than Brazil, Mexico, Romania, and even South Africa (by a small margin).

I think perception of China is being altered a bit by all the hyped news articles about economic growth and images of Beijing and Shanghai. Let's not forget to look at the country as a whole.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Theowne

What are those requirements? Let's say, we compare GDP per capita: United States: 45,845 , Canada: 38,435 , Finland: 35,280. People's Republic of China: 5,292 [...]

You are correct. I mis-rembered the exact figures (specifically, I remembered the nominal GDP, not the per capita average (which has the US at number 11 (therebouts) and PRC at number 99 (therebouts)). If you go only by nominal GDP, China is routinly somewhere in the Top 5 (even just arguing the PPP calculations put China in the Top 5). But, you are correct, per capita, they are well behind the so-called "First World" countries.

Then again, I already admited this, saying that China is at the top of the "Third World" struggling to climb into the "First World". China is f*ck*d up in many respects (yes I have, briefly, visited both good and the bad areas of China), the good is often vastly outweighed by the bad. But, I am increasingly optimistic for their future. Knowing some of their recent past (one of my earliest friend's parents escaped from Mao-led China (after losing their own parents), so I partially grew up with a macabre understanding of the "Cultural Revolution") I can't help but look at the recent developments as an amazing turning point in their history (then again, maybe I am too optimistic).

[Theowne]

Yeah, when comparing GDP it's always most useful to use per capita figures when determining development. Because places like China and India are very large with many people, and when you compare total GDP or purchasing power it seems like they are competitive with the top, but when you use per capita figures it's a very different story and there's still a large gap. However, I agree, that China (and to some extent, India, Brazil, etc) are definitely pushing the boundaries of what we consider "third world". Also, I guess China would be "Second World" due to it's communist influences (Seriously, the three world system is messed up).

[_eternal]

Atheist - and apparently like a lot of people, I'm surprised at the amount of atheists here at AnimeSuki. Pleasantly surprised, you could say.

[Gemstar]

I think my new religion is Bruce Lee's concept on fighting. Take what is good and abandon what is bad. I'll take and own all of the good points of religion that I think is good not what anyone thinks is good and make it my own. The bad points of religion I will ignore and keep it out of my being because sometimes religion can be boring and what they ask of you is too much. I prefer something more interesting !

[NormalMar]

I became a Christian at a few years ago.

[Southern Cross]

I strongly believe that all faith must first exist in the self. I would think it to be extremely difficult to truly have faith in others without first having faith in myself. If there's one thing I can be certain about in terms of faith, it's just that. Other than that, I really am undecided on the bigger question, although the way I've been brought up seems to have me leaning towards some kind of God.

I don't necessarily believe in a perfectly omniscient God (I need to do a lot of thinking on that still), but at the very least a kind of deity with an understanding and compassion towards all living things beyond that of the capacity of most individuals. It is for a similar reason that I've felt so strongly about Jesus Christ. I may not exactly agree with Catholicism 100%, but I think Jesus deserves a lot of credit for acting so faithfully on his own beliefs on human beings. His example helps me be more patient with people in general, really.

[MidnightViper88]

I consider myself a Roman Catholic, but I'm not a practicing Roman Catholic, per se...I'm terrible at completing my Sunday obligation, since I pretty much only go to Mass for Christmas and Easter, and I don't make the best Catholic example, since I use the word "goddamn" like I never knew what a goddamn sin was in the first place...But I still believe in the core beliefs of Roman Catholicism, that Mary was the Virgin Mother, Jesus is our Lord that died for our sins, and all that good stuff...I get pissed off at people who arrogantly bash religion for no logical reason just as much as I hate uber-religious people who shove religion into people's faces without giving people the proper chance to believe for themselves, since religion can only be believed and not enforced...

I'm actually going to my brother's Communion today...There's my obligation for the day...

[zSolaris]

Originally Posted by Theowne

I think perception of China is being altered a bit by all the hyped news articles about economic growth and images of Beijing and Shanghai. Let's not forget to look at the country as a whole.

Aye, the country as a whole should be considered. However, it should also be taken into consideration that China also has a population over four times that of the United States (1.3 billion to 300 million, respectively) which is going to drag down their GDP per capita quite a bit. If China somehow only had 300 million citizens starting say...tomorrow in the same proportions of class as they do today, then their GDP per capita would shoot up--albeit not as high as the US or allies.

These "hyped" news articles have a good deal of truth in them. It took Great Britain hundreds of years to get to it's current economic standing, took the US about a hundred and some, and so on. All of the nations you mentioned began industrialization at least a hundred years ago China began mass industrialization post-World War II (somewhere in the 50s..58 I believe) and in 50 years, they have managed to accomplish what took even the oh so mighty Western countries hundreds of years to do so, that is, create a large and powerful middle class. The US's own middle class sits around 25-50% while China's has been at 19% (2003 numbers) and growing rapidly.

Albeit, China has a long way to go. But if any country is going to turn a 1.3 billion strong population into a massive consumer economy, it's going to be China.




Also, on topic with religion, I am a practicing Protestant (Presbyterian).

[Mystique]

Originally Posted by MidnightViper88

I consider myself a Roman Catholic, but I'm not a practicing Roman Catholic, per se...I'm terrible at completing my Sunday obligation, since I pretty much only go to Mass for Christmas and Easter, and I don't make the best Catholic example, since I use the word "goddamn" like I never knew what a goddamn sin was in the first place...But I still believe in the core beliefs of Roman Catholicism, that Mary was the Virgin Mother, Jesus is our Lord that died for our sins, and all that good stuff...I get pissed off at people who arrogantly bash religion for no logical reason just as much as I hate uber-religious people who shove religion into people's faces without giving people the proper chance to believe for themselves, since religion can only be believed and not enforced...

I'm actually going to my brother's Communion today...There's my obligation for the day...

*high fives on the part she's bolded*
Speaks for me too, except i lay off the swearing an can't mix 'Jesus' or 'God' with any other expletives (i just cringe)
Go one sunday a month, (or two if i'm good) - actually reading there forces me to go since I've a duty to maintain, lol.
but then i work 2 sundays a month too, so almost every day of the week, i wake up by alarm. :\
(Lie in.... what's that?)

But it helps me some sundays esp if i've not been for a while, kinda refreshing for me to tune into my spirituality and my sense of morals and personal goals in quiet reverence

EDIT:
To the post below me, that may/may not get deleted by admin, I bolded part of that quote and I think i'm more likely to know my own gender than you....

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by Mystique

*high fives on the part she's bolded*

*he

>_<

[Makkusu]

I'm Atheist I guess, I practically hate christianity after having it's beliefs forced upon me since the day I was born.

Schools and everything was christian an roman catholics, it was torture. If we didn't believe that the Bible was 100% the truth then we'd end up getting shouted at or something. It dulls the mind at that age to be forced to believe in only one perspective of everything.

The lifestyle I follow is mainly based on buddhist beliefs although that's only for a pure lifestyle perspective not religious.

I remember my RE exam it asked me a question on 'World Peace', so I wrote that Christians should kill every other person that doesn't have the same beliefs in order to create the perfect race. Then as time went on, sins will be repaid as long as they force their children into the same beliefs and eventually everyone will believe in the same thing and there will be the perfect race.

[musume_no_hoshi]

I have no religion yet I think a god does exist, and I dont really plan to 'find' a religion.

And please don't try and make me convert to your religion please? (I'm talking about my BF constantly trying to convert me into a christian....)

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Makkusu

I'm Atheist I guess, I practically hate christianity after having it's beliefs forced upon me since the day I was born.

Schools and everything was christian an roman catholics, it was torture. If we didn't believe that the Bible was 100% the truth then we'd end up getting shouted at or something. It dulls the mind at that age to be forced to believe in only one perspective of everything.

The lifestyle I follow is mainly based on buddhist beliefs although that's only for a pure lifestyle perspective not religious.

I remember my RE exam it asked me a question on 'World Peace', so I wrote that Christians should kill every other person that doesn't have the same beliefs in order to create the perfect race. Then as time went on, sins will be repaid as long as they force their children into the same beliefs and eventually everyone will believe in the same thing and there will be the perfect race.

And did you get a good grade?

[Bathory Area]

Shinto,the native religion of Japan and was once its state religion.Shinto

priests perform Shintorituals and often live on the shrine grounds.Priests are

aided by younger women (miko) duringrituals and shrine tasks.Miko wear

white kimono, must be unmarried, and are often the priests'daughters


Most of the population of Japan follow this religion.

[MidnightViper88]

Originally Posted by Makkusu

I'm Atheist I guess, I practically hate christianity after having it's beliefs forced upon me since the day I was born.

Then you're not even an Atheist; You're just an Antireligionist (And yes, there is such a technical term)...

I hate it when people claim that they're Atheist when they're actually Antireligionists, against the entire concept of religion itself...True Athiests are actually open to the concept of religion, but deny the existence of any higher deity such as God...