AnimeSuki Forums

Wil-S. · 2004-06-26, 17:34

I've been growing interested on learning more about orphanages like Kinderheim 511 since watching episode 11. I've told myself not to believe so quickly in "anything on TV", but as serious as Monster is, I'll believe those orphanages existed somewhere in East Germany.

I'm not that much of a researcher, especially on things that happen outside the US. I'd still like to know more on this though, so if anyone has any sort of information or link i can learn from, I would really appreciate it.

Jpizzle · 2004-07-05, 13:24

lol... I have my doubts on whether something like this happened IRL during the 'cold war'

if you care enough about researching something in the real world I would suggest google, not a forum for anime enthusiasts

Anthriel · 2004-07-06, 02:46

Well, I couldn't find anything special about DDR orphanages, not even in German, so I think there was nothing special going on. At least I never heard something about them being especially bad. If there would have happenend something like in Monster, I would either have heard of it even in West Germany, or it wouldn't be public at all. (Though the later is quite unlikely.)

Kurz · 2004-07-07, 23:43

You'd be surprised on how well people can cover things up. Not saying it happended but hey give a look into it visit some of the neighbors around orphanges during vacation to some nice tourist spots

.

kd_money · 2004-07-08, 18:12

There probably have been places similiar places but I doubt it would as easily uncovered life in anime.

Quote:

You'd be surprised on how well people can cover things up

GriefAngel · 2007-05-11, 05:21

Searching on the Internet for such things was the first thing I did after those episodes with Kinderheim 511

) I didn't find anything about orphanages. BUT I did get something confirmed: during WW2, a certain Joseph Mengele (I hope I spelled that right) conducted various experiments on children in concentration camps. And he was just the nastiest of the nasty cause eugenics were quite fashionable back then - and a while afterwards... I suppose Monster was inspired by THAT and a few other conspiracy theories I've heard of (The Nazis trying to create the perfect warrior, the Antichrist himself; going as far as brain-washing and creating UFO-like aircrafts, bla-bla-bla)...

But hey! If they got people to search for it on the net, one thing's for certain: they did a Hell of a good job blending fiction with history!!!

sunshineacid · 2007-05-20, 02:07

As a german I was generally awed by how much effort was put into this Anime to let it look non fictional, while the first 36 Episodes I used google and my memories pretty often (I live in Berlin) most of the news articles are genuine, places, time lines and stuff.
Thus I thought let's look up a little about Kinderheim 511,
well it doesn't existed and the only places where people talk about it are Anime Forums
nonetheless, there were pretty evil places among orphanages, not just in eastern germany, but let's look at eastern germany for now, in the wake of the "Mauerfall" there were a few cases about child abuse in eastern germanys orphanages, but most criminals, even those that said what they did were left alone, some even given new children to foster.

Also about the brainwashing, the brainwashing existed there too (as it does in a lot of other states around the world) I mainly know about the "brainwashing" in Kindergarten, lots of Songs about "Die Partei" and other pseudopatriotic stuff about the part of germany which was governed by russia until the late end (russian forces were sent to east berlin a short time before the Wall got torn down to smash down an uprising)
In America they have Boot Camps, in Southafrica they got thousands of small Militias that just take them after slaughtering their families,
there are a lot of dark places in the world.
I doubt that Kinderheim 511 existed, still I do not doubt that similiar things were done to the children, because in Nazi Germany things like that were done to young children, teenagers (very intelligent abuse to enflaming the light of patriotism (e.g. brainwashing) in the children) If a child then didn't join a youth organization provided by the nazis it would have a very hard time having friends, not getting beaten, there were a lot of yet unsolved cases were families acted that way and got severe problems, up to deportment. In eastern germany a lot of the grave things that happened before in Nazi Germany were repeated, especially concerning "social experiments" because DDR can not be called anything else.
They didn't reign themselves, they didn't want it to be like that and Russia openly said they wanted to try to make a better germany out of that part. You know to what all that lead.

So let's be sure there was never anything as grave and organized as the Kinderheim 511 (at least not in Berlin; ) but never forget that every day in the world things similiar to that happen (beside that really fictional idea about young boys causing revolts in which everyone kills each other)

And to state something,
I've found a lot about germany orphanages and bad things that happened here, not only while searching but through the media, but that was all actual stuff and not stuff from the past. The stuff I looked up was mainly about abusers getting charged and being let off for small sums of money to an anti child abuse organization and mostly the parents. In some cases small holes in our jurisdictional system were used, in others there were Monsters being judges.

So we can be sure that Monsters exist, I know it, one tried to raise and kill me

and be sure that those things don't only happen here, not too long ago a lot of people vanished in the us, in the era of the vietnam war there were tens of thousands of asian origin that vanished forever, but probably this was only a scam by the rest of the world, I dun know, just imagine what you could do with tens of thousands of people none would ever ask for

yeah right, for people like mengele and others, good prey, and please notice, even tho that Mengele was one of the worst Monster to ever exist, there are a lot of Monsters, everyone excels in something else, Hitler in this Mao in that, Hannibal in something else, Nero

this world is just an abyss

in Paris, last year whole city districts were abandoned by the police and other governmental institutions (school, hospitals all were abandoned because a lot of people went on the street and burned cars, destroyed everything and protested against the abusal of thousands of people without a future on the brink of loosing the last security they had to live on with their families)
in germany we took the same route over the past few years and berlin surely gets hotter

and it gets nearer and nearer to Paris over the time being, a few weeks ago something similiar, but on a lot smaller scale happened here, as it would nearly always on may the first. Everywhere in the world it becomes the same, food for the rich ;D

---- edit ----
Ah yes something general ^ even tho they tried to really make a good background for this anime (in which they mostly succeeded due to the correctness of the timeline and happening things)
the healt care/welfare system in germany is wrong in the anime ^ either you're forced to be secured or you're secured privately, as privately secured you have to pay the bill yourself and get it back from your insurance, in the first case you just go there and get treated (in both cases you have to pay monthly, but if you don't have money, then the state pays)
as well as that every patient, even without insurance has to be treated, and if that doesn't happen or if even a death would result out of it, it would end the career as a doctor for that particular idiot that defied the hypocratic oath (even tho that oath has nothing to do with it^ it more or less says the same about treating people without money)

but nonetheless

our regime was able to put off a "10 euro every quarter year "doctax"" which you have to pay to your doctor, just so that he can send it to your insurance company (which is a lot of stress for him, especially if people don't pay it, even tho that it's against the law they try to send everyone out that doesn't have these 10 euro and since our regime introduced this system there was a very significant reducement in people going to the doctor) so 'nuff off topic and spam about this insignificant country where i'll move away anyway soon because it sucks (and let me tell you, it's one of the better places in this world concerning human rights and stuff

it's just that our different conversative regimes over the past few years really try hard to ruin that, and honestly they're pretty successful, Kohl started with it (in my eyes, but I think that' biased because I was born and raised in the Kohl Era

---- edit 2 ----
Just found a few interesting names about "Kinderheime" orphanages in the DDR
er rather than interesting names, pretty cruel stories are behind the names.

One of those was the Special Orphanage (Spezialheim) Erich Hartung
the suspects were fined 5000 marks each for very serious crimes against the children (sexual abuse, psychological abuse, physical abuse)
they never got sentenced, just had to pay the money and were sent back to work with children, one of them even got to be a foster parent,
few years later it was tried to reinitiate the trial, but dun know what happened

Jugendwerkhof Torgund (something like youth(handy?)workfarm)
„Dann durfte die Gruppe mich als Punchingball benutzen, dann war ich vogelfrei ausgeliefert. Und wenn 27 Mädchen ihren Frust an dir loslassen und jede froh ist, nicht selbst in der Mitte zu stehen, dann hältst du es nicht mehr aus.“

"Then the group was allowed to use me as punchingball, i was outlawed. and if 27 girls rain their frustration on you and every single one is happy not be in the focus, then one can't go on"
by Mico-Harriet Fabri

A girl that decided to go against the dogma and bylaws taught her there, the above written is what happened afterwards, the other were set onto her by the "Heim" officials.

"Mannschatz war bis 1977 Abteilungsleiter im Ministerium für Volksbildung, also der Handlanger und Vollstrecker von Margot Honecker. Bei einem Besuch in einem Jugendwerkhof fragt die Cheferzieherin der DDR eine Jugendliche, wie es ihr gehe. Diese antwortet: „Geht so.“ Die Folge der mangelnden Euphorie: für das Mädchen drei Tage Einzelarrest."
It's about a guy called Mannschatz working for the ministry of public/national education, in this "biased" view, the executor of Margot Honecker (i'd think Margot Honeckers personal hangman would fit better, but the german is pretty clear there) When this Mannschatz asked a girl how she was feeling and the girl answered "not too good" (wrong translation, but the best I can come up with) he sent her to isolation detainment for three days due to lack of euphoria. As well as a lot of other interesting things.

Daniel Gottlieb Moritz Schreber is an interesting name because of his personal character similiarity to General Wolfe

but that he died a long time ago, and here in germany there's a kind of garden named after him, small lots of land in big cities, rented for quite some money to "house" a garden and often enough small houses or huts. Schrebergaerten to be exact. He is the so called creator of "Black Pedagogy" which got used in the DDR, but let's be honest, everywhere else in the world too, it's just the last few years to decades that this really changed and not even in every country (china as an example)

and the fault for everything that happened (or rather "everything bad someone young did") lies with the west, especially west germany and the U.S. at least that's what was told to people

but hell, in the U.S. it had been the communists, everyone blames everyone.

DarthJohan · 2007-12-12, 20:46

not just an orphanage but the real case "Private Sociale Mission" near Siegburg Germany and later "Colonia Dignidad" the Monster Paul Schaefer built and lead in Chile after he flee from germany comes in mind after WWII. This case may is more investigated and documented then existing others.

opdrh14 · 2008-05-23, 11:05

MR. sunshineacid, you found the dark side of the world.
Governments are all the same.

ElPadre · 2008-07-25, 17:13

some months ago BBC aired a documentary about a bulgarian orphanage for retarded children who were abandoned by their parents. In this orphanage (and a lot of other orphanages) the human rights of the children were (and are) heavily abused; each day they got only a handful of half-rotten food, imprisoned in little rooms, they got loads of diseases and the ppl responsible for them didnt give them medicines, physical/sexual abuse, most of their limbs are corrosive due to bad food and healthcare.....until they get all crazy like in the movie below.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documen...children.shtml
http://www.tbact.org/public/images/a...ed_trailer.mov
http://www.tbact.org/
I dont get why countries which dont follow human rights, like this one, were added to the EU

greatpower2 · 2008-12-23, 03:44

Well I wouldn't doubt it if someone told me this really happened. For example the U.S. ( supposedly the good guys) had a scientist who said everyone should experiment with LSD this was during the cold war. I mean frankly times were tough, and it probably happened in at least one orphanage.

Intranetusa · 2009-01-04, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElPadre

I dont get why countries which dont follow human rights, like this one, were added to the EU

I don't understand why Turkey, a country that's not even in Europe, is going to be added to the EU.

2004-06-26, 17:34	Link #1
Wil-S. Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2004	Kinderheim 511 I've been growing interested on learning more about orphanages like Kinderheim 511 since watching episode 11. I've told myself not to believe so quickly in "anything on TV", but as serious as Monster is, I'll believe those orphanages existed somewhere in East Germany. I'm not that much of a researcher, especially on things that happen outside the US. I'd still like to know more on this though, so if anyone has any sort of information or link i can learn from, I would really appreciate it.

2007-05-20, 02:07	Link #7
sunshineacid Junior Member Join Date: May 2007	As a german I was generally awed by how much effort was put into this Anime to let it look non fictional, while the first 36 Episodes I used google and my memories pretty often (I live in Berlin) most of the news articles are genuine, places, time lines and stuff. Thus I thought let's look up a little about Kinderheim 511, well it doesn't existed and the only places where people talk about it are Anime Forums nonetheless, there were pretty evil places among orphanages, not just in eastern germany, but let's look at eastern germany for now, in the wake of the "Mauerfall" there were a few cases about child abuse in eastern germanys orphanages, but most criminals, even those that said what they did were left alone, some even given new children to foster. Also about the brainwashing, the brainwashing existed there too (as it does in a lot of other states around the world) I mainly know about the "brainwashing" in Kindergarten, lots of Songs about "Die Partei" and other pseudopatriotic stuff about the part of germany which was governed by russia until the late end (russian forces were sent to east berlin a short time before the Wall got torn down to smash down an uprising) In America they have Boot Camps, in Southafrica they got thousands of small Militias that just take them after slaughtering their families, there are a lot of dark places in the world. I doubt that Kinderheim 511 existed, still I do not doubt that similiar things were done to the children, because in Nazi Germany things like that were done to young children, teenagers (very intelligent abuse to enflaming the light of patriotism (e.g. brainwashing) in the children) If a child then didn't join a youth organization provided by the nazis it would have a very hard time having friends, not getting beaten, there were a lot of yet unsolved cases were families acted that way and got severe problems, up to deportment. In eastern germany a lot of the grave things that happened before in Nazi Germany were repeated, especially concerning "social experiments" because DDR can not be called anything else. They didn't reign themselves, they didn't want it to be like that and Russia openly said they wanted to try to make a better germany out of that part. You know to what all that lead. So let's be sure there was never anything as grave and organized as the Kinderheim 511 (at least not in Berlin; ) but never forget that every day in the world things similiar to that happen (beside that really fictional idea about young boys causing revolts in which everyone kills each other) And to state something, I've found a lot about germany orphanages and bad things that happened here, not only while searching but through the media, but that was all actual stuff and not stuff from the past. The stuff I looked up was mainly about abusers getting charged and being let off for small sums of money to an anti child abuse organization and mostly the parents. In some cases small holes in our jurisdictional system were used, in others there were Monsters being judges. So we can be sure that Monsters exist, I know it, one tried to raise and kill me and be sure that those things don't only happen here, not too long ago a lot of people vanished in the us, in the era of the vietnam war there were tens of thousands of asian origin that vanished forever, but probably this was only a scam by the rest of the world, I dun know, just imagine what you could do with tens of thousands of people none would ever ask for yeah right, for people like mengele and others, good prey, and please notice, even tho that Mengele was one of the worst Monster to ever exist, there are a lot of Monsters, everyone excels in something else, Hitler in this Mao in that, Hannibal in something else, Nero this world is just an abyss in Paris, last year whole city districts were abandoned by the police and other governmental institutions (school, hospitals all were abandoned because a lot of people went on the street and burned cars, destroyed everything and protested against the abusal of thousands of people without a future on the brink of loosing the last security they had to live on with their families) in germany we took the same route over the past few years and berlin surely gets hotter and it gets nearer and nearer to Paris over the time being, a few weeks ago something similiar, but on a lot smaller scale happened here, as it would nearly always on may the first. Everywhere in the world it becomes the same, food for the rich ;D ---- edit ---- Ah yes something general ^ even tho they tried to really make a good background for this anime (in which they mostly succeeded due to the correctness of the timeline and happening things) the healt care/welfare system in germany is wrong in the anime ^ either you're forced to be secured or you're secured privately, as privately secured you have to pay the bill yourself and get it back from your insurance, in the first case you just go there and get treated (in both cases you have to pay monthly, but if you don't have money, then the state pays) as well as that every patient, even without insurance has to be treated, and if that doesn't happen or if even a death would result out of it, it would end the career as a doctor for that particular idiot that defied the hypocratic oath (even tho that oath has nothing to do with it^ it more or less says the same about treating people without money) but nonetheless our regime was able to put off a "10 euro every quarter year "doctax"" which you have to pay to your doctor, just so that he can send it to your insurance company (which is a lot of stress for him, especially if people don't pay it, even tho that it's against the law they try to send everyone out that doesn't have these 10 euro and since our regime introduced this system there was a very significant reducement in people going to the doctor) so 'nuff off topic and spam about this insignificant country where i'll move away anyway soon because it sucks (and let me tell you, it's one of the better places in this world concerning human rights and stuff it's just that our different conversative regimes over the past few years really try hard to ruin that, and honestly they're pretty successful, Kohl started with it (in my eyes, but I think that' biased because I was born and raised in the Kohl Era ---- edit 2 ---- Just found a few interesting names about "Kinderheime" orphanages in the DDR er rather than interesting names, pretty cruel stories are behind the names. One of those was the Special Orphanage (Spezialheim) Erich Hartung the suspects were fined 5000 marks each for very serious crimes against the children (sexual abuse, psychological abuse, physical abuse) they never got sentenced, just had to pay the money and were sent back to work with children, one of them even got to be a foster parent, few years later it was tried to reinitiate the trial, but dun know what happened Jugendwerkhof Torgund (something like youth(handy?)workfarm) „Dann durfte die Gruppe mich als Punchingball benutzen, dann war ich vogelfrei ausgeliefert. Und wenn 27 Mädchen ihren Frust an dir loslassen und jede froh ist, nicht selbst in der Mitte zu stehen, dann hältst du es nicht mehr aus.“ "Then the group was allowed to use me as punchingball, i was outlawed. and if 27 girls rain their frustration on you and every single one is happy not be in the focus, then one can't go on" by Mico-Harriet Fabri A girl that decided to go against the dogma and bylaws taught her there, the above written is what happened afterwards, the other were set onto her by the "Heim" officials. "Mannschatz war bis 1977 Abteilungsleiter im Ministerium für Volksbildung, also der Handlanger und Vollstrecker von Margot Honecker. Bei einem Besuch in einem Jugendwerkhof fragt die Cheferzieherin der DDR eine Jugendliche, wie es ihr gehe. Diese antwortet: „Geht so.“ Die Folge der mangelnden Euphorie: für das Mädchen drei Tage Einzelarrest." It's about a guy called Mannschatz working for the ministry of public/national education, in this "biased" view, the executor of Margot Honecker (i'd think Margot Honeckers personal hangman would fit better, but the german is pretty clear there) When this Mannschatz asked a girl how she was feeling and the girl answered "not too good" (wrong translation, but the best I can come up with) he sent her to isolation detainment for three days due to lack of euphoria. As well as a lot of other interesting things. Daniel Gottlieb Moritz Schreber is an interesting name because of his personal character similiarity to General Wolfe but that he died a long time ago, and here in germany there's a kind of garden named after him, small lots of land in big cities, rented for quite some money to "house" a garden and often enough small houses or huts. Schrebergaerten to be exact. He is the so called creator of "Black Pedagogy" which got used in the DDR, but let's be honest, everywhere else in the world too, it's just the last few years to decades that this really changed and not even in every country (china as an example) and the fault for everything that happened (or rather "everything bad someone young did") lies with the west, especially west germany and the U.S. at least that's what was told to people but hell, in the U.S. it had been the communists, everyone blames everyone. Last edited by sunshineacid; 2007-05-20 at 06:08.

2007-12-12, 20:46	Link #8
DarthJohan Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2007	not just an orphanage but the real case "Private Sociale Mission" near Siegburg Germany and later "Colonia Dignidad" the Monster Paul Schaefer built and lead in Chile after he flee from germany comes in mind after WWII. This case may is more investigated and documented then existing others. Last edited by DarthJohan; 2007-12-12 at 20:57.

2004-07-05, 13:24	Link #2
Jpizzle kawaii.. I guess Join Date: May 2004 Location: bay area Age: 42	lol... I have my doubts on whether something like this happened IRL during the 'cold war' if you care enough about researching something in the real world I would suggest google, not a forum for anime enthusiasts

2004-07-06, 02:46	Link #3
Anthriel 天使 Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: 独逸　（カールスト） Age: 37	Well, I couldn't find anything special about DDR orphanages, not even in German, so I think there was nothing special going on. At least I never heard something about them being especially bad. If there would have happenend something like in Monster, I would either have heard of it even in West Germany, or it wouldn't be public at all. (Though the later is quite unlikely.)

2004-07-07, 23:43	Link #4
Kurz Gao~ a sound for the ages Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: I live in a relm of swirling of thought and emotion, Ever lost in the relm of infinite possiblities. Age: 37	You'd be surprised on how well people can cover things up. Not saying it happended but hey give a look into it visit some of the neighbors around orphanges during vacation to some nice tourist spots .

2007-05-11, 05:21	Link #6
GriefAngel "Mood: Apathetic" Join Date: May 2007 Location: Romania	Searching on the Internet for such things was the first thing I did after those episodes with Kinderheim 511 ) I didn't find anything about orphanages. BUT I did get something confirmed: during WW2, a certain Joseph Mengele (I hope I spelled that right) conducted various experiments on children in concentration camps. And he was just the nastiest of the nasty cause eugenics were quite fashionable back then - and a while afterwards... I suppose Monster was inspired by THAT and a few other conspiracy theories I've heard of (The Nazis trying to create the perfect warrior, the Antichrist himself; going as far as brain-washing and creating UFO-like aircrafts, bla-bla-bla)... But hey! If they got people to search for it on the net, one thing's for certain: they did a Hell of a good job blending fiction with history!!!

2008-05-23, 11:05	Link #9
opdrh14 Junior Member Join Date: May 2008	MR. sunshineacid, you found the dark side of the world. Governments are all the same.

2008-07-25, 17:13	Link #10
ElPadre Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Belgium	some months ago BBC aired a documentary about a bulgarian orphanage for retarded children who were abandoned by their parents. In this orphanage (and a lot of other orphanages) the human rights of the children were (and are) heavily abused; each day they got only a handful of half-rotten food, imprisoned in little rooms, they got loads of diseases and the ppl responsible for them didnt give them medicines, physical/sexual abuse, most of their limbs are corrosive due to bad food and healthcare.....until they get all crazy like in the movie below. http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/documen...children.shtml http://www.tbact.org/public/images/a...ed_trailer.mov http://www.tbact.org/ I dont get why countries which dont follow human rights, like this one, were added to the EU

2008-12-23, 03:44	Link #11
greatpower2 Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: America Age: 30	Well I wouldn't doubt it if someone told me this really happened. For example the U.S. ( supposedly the good guys) had a scientist who said everyone should experiment with LSD this was during the cold war. I mean frankly times were tough, and it probably happened in at least one orphanage.