2008-07-28, 01:05 | Link #1142 | |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
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2008-07-28, 01:13 | Link #1144 | ||||
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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If a person belief in a supreme being, wouldn't it be logical for that person to also belief that this supreme being could do anything, including creating the world in six days without leaving any apparent evidence behind? Note, I'm not trying to force the idea of creation on anybody here (I'm just using it since you already brought it up), but wouldn't what I just said be a relatively insignificant leap of faith for that person compared to believing in the supreme being in the first place? Quote:
Instead of just saying you do not like how some people use religion to take advantage of other people, you're now also effectively saying the religion itself was made in order to take advantage of other people. Hence, my statement that whatever bad things these people have done, Christianity itself is not about that and should not be blamed (not specifically referring to you). Quote:
As someone said already, how would you know none of the current wars are divinely justified? How would you know that Bush was actually right and that the invasion of Iraq (with all its civilian casualties, and all the tortured Iraqi and American soldiers) was his God-given right? So I answered using the New Testament as support. Nothing in that question says I have to reply using the Old Testament. And please, just because I did not use the Old Testament in my first reply does not mean I don't care about it or it has no use in Christianity. In fact, in my second reply I did mention the Old Testament and I said that those rights in the Old Testament were given for a specific group for a specific reason. So even using the Old Testament, my answer would still be the same. I really don't know why you're nitpicking about which part of the Bible that I use when the question itself is not even related to the Old Testament. |
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2008-07-28, 01:40 | Link #1145 |
Μ ε r c ü r υ
Join Date: Jun 2004
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What is the religious meaning you are referring to? To believe in the God? If that is the case, you do not have to believe in the God, to share the same meaning, cause, believing in God happens through the way you live your life. And, regardless of the belief you carry for a religion, the meaning at the end is what you do in your life. As long as you live your life in a widely shared way, then you are part of that meaning, whether you desire it or not. Maybe you can also assume that, as long as you continue to live to become a better person, then you share that meaning in the way you live. It may not be true, but that is what I believe anyways.
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2008-07-28, 02:04 | Link #1146 | |
Shougi Génération
Graphic Designer
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Another atheist to add to the count here.
I believe religious texts and theories, though some are universal enough to remain applicable, are largely outdated and difficult to apply to our modern day world. One only has to look at the brand new list of sins to find that writing up new rules for the modern day isn't as easy as it sounds. Quote:
Let it not be thought that I'm making a bad case of Christians, I'm baptized and I've practiced (Even if that's a while ago). I'm pretty sure most religions out there have outdated texts and scripts that are no longer appropriate. Back on topic: I thus believe religions are formations of values and beliefs that are impersonated by a single spiritual entity: A god. To me, as an atheist, it means that people around me choose to believe a certain dogma and follow a certain way of life and I treat them the same I would anyone else. It is when people try to enforce their own beliefs on me, whether they are religious or not, that I will react. And being baptized, I am "officially" a Christian. And being told by a man of the faith that I will go in hell for my opinions on the new sins is when the man crosses the line. |
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2008-07-28, 02:06 | Link #1147 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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That being said, true meaning can be found anywhere. Don't limit yourself to the seemingly "Big Answers", because those answers never bring true hapiness. Focus on what makes you, you. That is more than enough meaning for any one man or woman to have. |
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2008-07-28, 02:31 | Link #1148 | ||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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I do not seek an identity, nor do I think I ever will. This is because again, from a logical standpoint on life, an identity is just another veil we try to place ourselves behind in order to keep ourselves sane. "Oh I must have meaning in my life, I was a doctor who saved many lives and made many people happy!" I applaud it, life is precious. However if I step back and think about it... What meaning does keeping sags of meat have? We live maybe around 75 years average. The earth is like six billion years old and the Universe is what.. 27.6 billion or something I remember? We are insignificant in the stream of time. What I do today is not going to affect absolutely anyone a thousand, million, or billion years later. "Was making myself feel better really why I am alive? I was alive to make myself feel better? But... I actually do not know that because I am an agnostic!" Answering this question on what I find meaningful just seems to be another attempt to escape this cruelty which is life. I plan to face it head on with what I know. Alleviating it with such delusions is just escapism. Running away from the truth that you are afraid that life may not have meaning at all, or that it may be something you do not like. I certainly hope I do not degrade my current resolutions in life based on such desperations.
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2008-07-28, 03:34 | Link #1150 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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Then again, if it is that upsetting, you should just end it now. If there is absolutely no reason to live, then stop living. Hell, even evolution can lead to a specific cases where death is the only option (ex: the mule), so if a person wishes for the end, then by all means let them accept their end. |
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2008-07-28, 07:07 | Link #1151 | ||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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What is property? Property is what we own. I contend that the only thing we own is our dignity. No one can steal your self-respect unless you let him. How do we balance our duties to society with our rights? Before we can govern a country, we must first govern a province. Before we can govern a province, we must first govern a town. Before we can govern a town, we must first govern a family. Before we can govern a family, we must first govern ourselves. Before we can govern ourselves, we must first govern our minds. Therefore, train your mind. The right balance will eventually reveal itself. If knowledge is experience, then do more, think less. More action, more experience, therefore more learning gets done. But if the world exists as will and representation, then we are what we think, therefore endeavour to think as properly as you can. (It also means that revelation is an intensely personal experience. Every individual is unique. Likewise his perspective of the world and reality.) Regarding my dislike for complicated answers to the Meaning Of Lifetm, I like the moral of this apocryphal story: Quote:
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2008-07-28, 07:32 | Link #1152 | ||||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Unless, of course, some genius comes along and makes sense of it all, like Kepler and Newton made sense of the movements of the stars. They were, of course, wrong. But not nearly as wrong as their predecessors. And what they said ultimately changed our vision of the world, and thus our world itself. And to me, life is simple because we neglect a lot of things. Like calculating the trajectories of planets by counting only the sun and neglecting Jupiter. It's not necessarilly illegitimate. But it can be unstatisfactory, and it's certainly not looking at the truth. |
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2008-07-28, 08:45 | Link #1153 | ||||
Gregory House
IT Support
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Suffice to say that I've been taught Catechism in elementary school (I went to a Catholic school), and that was one of the first things they taught us. Quote:
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I'll repeat it once more: The difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament is proof enough that the Bible should be read differently depending on the historical moment each book was written, and what intentions it had in mind. Read Asimov's Guide to the Bible, which is easy enough and, once more, it doesn't question your belief in a superior being.
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2008-07-28, 11:41 | Link #1154 | ||||||
Moving in circles
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 49
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Sometimes, I find that some people grow too proud of their own genius. In which case, it becomes a form of conceit. So, yeah, I'm suspicious of people who claim to be geniuses. I suspect you are too. Quote:
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2008-07-28, 11:52 | Link #1155 | ||
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
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Once again, you are talking about "raison d'etre," a term that essentially means one's reason to live. Family, friends, etc - these things are what bring us happiness, satisfaction, and the desire to continue living. They are our personal 'reason for continuing to live,' not the reason behind life itself. You seem to be failing to make that distinction. Quote:
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2008-07-28, 12:05 | Link #1156 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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^Thank you for clearing up my confusion. You are looking for a meaning to existence, not a meaning to life (you are looking for a reason why you were born, not a reason to continue living). Those are vastly different questions. Meaning to life can be determined by whatever you want. A (positive) meaning to existence, though, can only be determined by the posibility of a higher power, otherwise there is no real meaning, you just are.
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2008-07-28, 12:15 | Link #1157 | |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Sure there are plenty of reasons to keep myself alive... Family, friends, entertainment, and just the fact that I only have one life.
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2008-07-28, 13:18 | Link #1158 | |
廉頗
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Massachusetts
Age: 34
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2008-07-28, 13:54 | Link #1159 | |||||||
I disagree with you all.
Join Date: Dec 2005
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To go back from the abstract to the practical, when is it right for the poor and downtrodden to rise up and take the land back from rich landowners living off the sweat of other people? Quote:
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So it was for the movements of the stars. Newton's theory is simpler, and truer, than a lifetime of astronomical observations which only sum up to lots of numbers. I don't mean that I, personally, am all that interested in astronomy. Quote:
If someone can figure out the meaning of life, or the difference good and evil, great. Let him or her write a book. There's a demand for that sort of thing. Hopefully, this time it won't end up with people getting nailed to trees. Quote:
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not a debate, philosophy, religion |
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