2013-03-15, 07:56 | Link #141 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
|
Silver Crow is actually a very weak hand-to-hand combatant. He got in some good hits against Cyan Pile, but then Takumu figured him out and dominated the fight. It was only when Crow started to fly (with the advantage of the wide-open sky) that Crow could possibly win.
Crow dominated Taker in a fist-fight because Taker was even weaker in hand-to-hand combat. Blue avatars like Pile and Sky Raker are *monsters* in direct, close-range engagement. That's what being Blue is all about. And Pile should likewise dominate Raker in places where she doesn't have room to make full use of her mobility advantage. Likewise, Crow's mobility advantage is balanced by being weaker in a punch-out brawl. His Metal color gives him weaknesses as well as resistances, too. |
2013-03-15, 13:22 | Link #143 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
|
Quote:
Agreed on all points regarding colors. Quote:
|
||
2013-03-15, 13:52 | Link #144 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
|
Quote:
But as Scarlet Rain supposes, Vise might not be pure Black, or at least not originally. There might be a way to change or disguise Colors. Quote:
Quote:
It may have been hidden or locked for some reason, but it was always there. Quote:
Worse, he cripples other avatars, indefinitely depriving them of their full potentials. Combined with his own power-up, no rematch against him can ever start fresh. It's like starting a new duel already missing 50% of your HP, against an opponent who is given 50% more HP. Oh, and before I forget: Tus, only the tentacles regenerated. It was an Enhanced Armament, and so its regeneration was just a self-repair function. It would not have helped Taker heal any other damage... otherwise, what did he need Lime Bell for? |
||||
2013-03-15, 20:23 | Link #145 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
|
I have a question:
Looking at the light novel illustrations, there are two pictures of the Infinity and the Destiny, with plaques. The plaques both show the constellation of the Little (or Big?) Dipper, also known as Ursa Minor (or Major). Each plaque highlights a different star. The constellation is made up of seven stars, which is the exact number of Sacred Arcs. Can anyone guess what significance the constellation has to the Seven Sacred Arcs, or offer any information on a possible meaning? |
2013-03-15, 20:47 | Link #146 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
2013-03-16, 04:02 | Link #148 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
|
Quote:
“I was super stumped on what to use the level up bonus on, it had special attack, movement speed up, and wall-climbing. Ah, I made the ultra ~ correct ~ choice ~” Quote:
|
||
2013-03-16, 05:41 | Link #149 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
|
Quote:
If this were true, then Kuroyukihime and Takumu would have been EXTREMELY insistent that Haruyuki attempt to discover anything and everything about Silver Crow before moving on to Level 2. But no one ever mentions this as a method by which one avatar can be stronger than another, or as a trap to beware. Quote:
Flight was the power around which Silver Crow was fully designed. For Ash Roller, it was the Enhanced Armament: Night Rocker. Vertical Climb was unnecessary for the Night Rocker. It was simply a bonus; a bonus that would improve the overall potential of Ash Roller. It doesn't necessarily follow that just because SOME Limit Skills can be learned rather than bought, that all Limit Skills relate to an avatar's potential in the same way. If Haruyuki had not discovered Silver Crow's hidden ability, I'm sure that he could have unlocked it later without needing to buy it with a bonus. (Indeed, potential bonuses might even revealed its existence, unless the relevant bonuses remain hidden as well.) Since Duel Avatars only improve a little from Leveling Up (outside of the expansion of their bonus choice), I'm sure any hidden Limit Skills must be Level 1. That is, an avatar doesn't gain any more hidden powers to unlock. So after the avatar is created, there may be hidden Limit Skills, but it doesn't gain any more of them unless the player chooses them with bonuses. Since the player deliberately chooses them, these abilities are not hidden. At the same time, the avatar doesn't LOSE any potential if the avatar levels up before the hidden skills are revealed. They remain part of the avatar; they are already there, they don't need to be bought. They simply need to be found. I feel confident, now, that Dusk Taker WAS created with some kind of Limit Ability that Noumi somehow, for some reason, never learned. Since Limit Abilities would offer a way to spend his SP, an avatar with one of those doesn't technically need a Special Move. Heck, Silver Crow's Special Move is significantly less impressive than his Limit Ability; his Aviation Punch and Kick are more useful than Headbutt. Noumi COULD have unlocked his hidden power after getting Demonic Commandeer, but I would guess that he was fully satisfied with DC and didn't think to look for any other power. He didn't realize that he must have some other power because his brother/Parent didn't really teach him how avatar potential worked, and it was only after he bought DC that the Research Society found him. With a power like DC, it would have been easy for them to mistakenly conclude that there wasn't any other hidden depths to his avatar. The interesting puzzle now becomes: What kind of Passive or Limit Ability could Dusk Taker possible have had, to use up so much of his avatar's potential in the way of Aviation and the Night Rocker? What sort of power would make sense for an avatar which could gain a Special Move like Demonic Commandeer? (Assuming that DC started out much more humbly. Dusk Taker didn't destroy his brother until he reached at least Level 4 and ambushed him in the Unlimited Neutral Field, which meant two other bonuses he could have -- and probably did -- sink into upgrading Demonic Commandeer. A Level 2-to-4 power.) (Also assuming that he got DC as early as Level 2. Perhaps he got the whole power at Level 4, and gained multiple levels through sheer hardwork, while getting only Level 5 through blackmail? Or was he Level 4 when he met Haru, I forget.) Quote:
I asked if there was any known reason for that association. Or any theories. |
|||
2013-03-16, 07:29 | Link #150 | |||||||
Anomaly / 矛盾存在
Join Date: Jan 2013
Age: 29
|
Unrelated note: Gold, you may want to merge your posts. A suggestion.
Quote:
I tend to regard Vise with less credibility, however. Not only am I inclined to believe he found a way to change his colour (and possibly fake another avatar's shape), his avatar doesn't support the idea of "isolationism." Shiyumi, simply quoting the state of Vise' mind when using IS does not necessarily mean that is equal to his nature! Counter-example: Crow activates Laser Sword by thinking "I can be fast," but his nature is to fly away from everything! Your point on Cosmos is really weak, I'm sorry. That she 'resembles' characters from other stories you've read only means you're assuming a certain stereotype about her, and that itself is not a valid hypothesis in my book. I'd give the author the benefit of doubt first that he has a solid backstory for Cosmos and not a cookie-cutter villain formulae. I don't even know where to begin on Tower, because he's a reference; Ivory Tower and Black Vise are cards from Magic: The Gathering! Saying he's businesslike is one thing, I'm sure I'd behave formally too if I was at a gathering of Kings more than able to kill me for a single slip of the tongue. We have too little information about White avatars to properly speculate, really. And you're speculating heavily based on a single ability name: Under Cover. That itself undermines the credibility of the hypothesis. No, I will not accept Cosmos from the PSP game. An interview (LN thread IIRC) confirmed that wasn't the original design, but author might just accept it. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
-There is Dusk Taker's potential, which lies in DC and possibly other theft-related moves. This potential also refers to power contained in an Armament, eg. Cyan Pile's Pile Driver has most of his combat potential. -Then there is the sum potential of the avatar's combat ability, how well it can function as a whole when being proficiently controlled. This is what we're getting at when we say Taker breaks the rules; by stealing other armaments and Crow's wings, his summation potential is twice that of a normal avatar (Flight + Long-range firepower on him before his last fight). Hence, he could engineer his BP (Burst Point) farming plan to hunt Lotus from safety. Quote:
If I have this right: you're saying, it's like as if Crow chose Rapid Knuckle as his bonus instead, and poured in enough bonuses for it to become something much more powerful, is that what you're saying? Because other than that, I don't think Dusk Taker was created other than the purpose of having an NTR antagonist to add to the mix, for it to be so flawed in conception and having glaring inconsistencies. At least Blood Leopard was somewhat logical (and backed up by the bull-headed Yellow Legionnaire in the anime). |
|||||||
2013-03-16, 09:43 | Link #151 | |||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
|
Quote:
With (and possibly because of) the exception of Great Wall. I don't see how that's astronomical. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
To Haruyuki, flying is part of going faster, and flying fast is the same as flying high, and flying high is the same as "transcending". There's also a strong element of "escape" rather than "self-improvement", as he wanted to escape his physical and social circumstances. Pard, on the other hand, may have conflated her idea of "speed" with "groundspeed". Rather than dreaming of flight, she may have dreamed of speeding along the ground like a motorcycle or great cat. It's possible that, unlike Haruyuki, she desired self-improvement rather than escape. Different people view similar concepts through different metaphors. Takumu's metaphor for revenge was "stabbing-thrust". If he had dreamed instead of defeating his tormentors in fair matches through superior skill and speed, he probably would not have gotten his Pile-Driver, but instead the Cyan Blade, which represents his love for and dedication to kendo, and his refusal to give up in the face of bullying. Sky Raker was born of two wishes: The wish to reach the stars, and the wish for legs that worked. So the avatar has powerful legs, capable of great speed and jumps, and also a rocket pack that can take its owner high into the sky. Perhaps if she was born with working legs and didn't strongly desire something she didn't have, her avatar would have been more completely focused on the rocket pack. Quote:
Quote:
Dusk Taker has two different potentials: The same potential that everyone else has, in regards to the sum of his personal abilities. And the potential he can attain by stealing the maximum amount of other people's potential. He has a limit to the potential he can steal, but by grabbing as much as possible, his effective potential is greater than anyone else's of the same level. Which is made more pronounced by the fact that his victims have LOST potential, which gives him an even greater advantage against them in re-matches. One can also say that all avatars have two potentials: Their current potential, which is equal to that of every other avatar of the same level. And their future potential at different levels, which is still equal to other avatars of the same levels. Quote:
So, at Level 4-5, it would be a Silver Crow who was a nigh-untouchable hit-and-run pugilist. Still very weak against other avatars of the same level, just as Dusk Taker was nearly driven to use Incarnate Skills to defeat Silver Crow once he started flying. Quote:
Quote:
|
|||||||||
2013-03-16, 11:16 | Link #152 | |||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
|
[QUOTE]That would violate the principle of "equal level, equal potential." There would be many Duel Avatars going around that were simply weaker than others, and many (especially Children with the benefit of Parent guidance) that were more powerful than others./QUOTE]
That was normal, just because you have same potential doesn't mean you know how or can you full of them. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
+Lotus advice Crow concentrate on his Flight (and his speed?)(somewhere between vol1 and vol2) +Roller mention it on his second fight with Crow "I was super stumped on what to use the level up bonus on, it had special attack, movement speed up, and wall-climbing. Ah, I made the ultra ~ correct ~ choice ~" +Rain "I heard that «Scarlet Rain» put all of her level up bonuses into enhancing her long range firepower." +Edge advise Lotus and other Element how to develop their avatars(side novel) not just the illustration(and I was sure it's correct too). tusjecht, you should have more faith in me. Quote:
Crow learned Fight(either like in the novel or when he up to Lv2) and after use Bonus Point to upgrade Punch or Kick or both(prefer Kick). You have seen how powerful his Aviation Kick was without any upgrade. With the cost of his flight time(or something interested in future) he will get ultimate finish move Super Meteor Emperor Falcon Kick(guess it will cost a lot more SP also). On last point, Taker only said "I finally obtained my first special technique in this avatar that didn’t possess any significant power". If he only had Punch, Kick, Headbutt as Normal or Limit Skill, it still count as 'didn’t possess any significant power' right(he still have a Limit Skill unlearn, an attack skill or a temporary stealing move that work like DC) Last edited by Shiyumi; 2013-03-16 at 12:18. |
|||||||
2013-03-16, 14:04 | Link #153 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
|
Quote:
Much as I bemoan Takumu picking Spiral Gravity Driver instead of focusing on one of his pre-existing abilities, SGD doesn't suck because Takumu decided to branch out instead of specializing. It sucks because the author goofed in making up a Special Attack that's less useful than Takumu's normal attack. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Duel Avatars can only ever get 8 bonuses, and few ever level up enough to get more than 3 bonuses. Also, almost no one stores these bonuses for later; they quickly choose an option. There are no Burst Points spent to gain options or to select an option, either; nor to upgrade an option after it's chosen. Burst Points can only be spent to increase your Level, and you get a Bonus Choice only for Leveling Up. Burst Points are called such because you start with as many as 100, you can have as many as... well, easily a thousand or more in the case of Kings. There are just so many stored up all at once that of course you would call them "points". It's the difference between pennies (or one-yen coins) and gold bricks. You don't count the bricks in terms of pennies, you count them like bricks. |
||||
2013-03-16, 14:19 | Link #154 |
Anomaly / 矛盾存在
Join Date: Jan 2013
Age: 29
|
A quick reply, because i'm using my phone. Gold, I'll properly reply you when I get my hands on a proper computer...
Shiyumi, like Gold said; the "bonus point" are't points you can invest in one or even multiple new skills/moves, it's a choice you can make upon spending Burst Points and levelling up. So when they say for example, Rain "poured all her bonuses into Long-range firepower", what they mean precisely, is that Rain chose to upgrade her armament's guns each time she levelled up, for a total of eight times. That. Notice how other characters never mention points instead and rather say that it's the choice/decision they made. And while it's true that you spend Burst Points to level up, this isn't use to pay for the new skill/move, it's a penalty to the avatar's controller; by becoming stronger and faster than other by one level, you have to pay something, and that naturally would be the points you earned from hard work |
2013-03-16, 18:37 | Link #155 | |||||
Anomaly / 矛盾存在
Join Date: Jan 2013
Age: 29
|
Quote:
Quote:
Spoiler for Vise changing form? In V13:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Shiyumi, I'll answer you when I next get a break from work. |
|||||
2013-03-16, 19:41 | Link #156 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
|
Funnily enough, that structure never entered my mind. I always took the legion's name to mean, "We are the guild who swears to the duty of defending all others from a great and terrible threat. We are the Great Wall and the guardsmen who stand on it, holding back the darkness."
Even after I learned that probably wasn't the case, the impression stuck. It was even reinforced by hearing that Green Grandeur helped to suppress every instance of the Chrome Disaster. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
But it's also possible that he did remain true to the setting, in that Dusk Taker might have started with a Limit Ability that Noumi simply never discovered. Ultimately it doesn't matter, because Dusk Taker is dead, and Noumi will hopefully NEVER be important ever again. Then again, Megumi was able to enter the UNF for one last time. Dusk Taker might yet make a brief reappearance. It would be hilarious if, having apparently been reformed by losing his memories of Brain Burst, Dusk Taker decides to steal a power from an enemy like Black Vise before vanishing away for good... assuming that retirement doesn't return the abilities he steals. |
|||
2013-03-16, 19:55 | Link #157 | |||
Anomaly / 矛盾存在
Join Date: Jan 2013
Age: 29
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
However, Taker definitely lost his memories, while Megumi retained some awareness of Brain Burst. That might happen if you Direct Connected with Noumi, but...would you dare risk fighting Taker even one more time, having nothing much to gain? :P |
|||
2013-03-16, 20:11 | Link #158 | ||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
|
Quote:
She had a much better chance of remaining in control of the situation while working with only three other Burst Linkers, but the Green King would have a significantly larger and stronger retinue to bring to bear. Plus, inviting the Green King would open the door for the other treaty-bound Kings. Quote:
What would Takumu know about them, by reputation? Quote:
Quote:
Besides, Megumi didn't direct link with KYH, she plugged into the hotel's hardware. Why would KYH and the Okinawan girls have needed to direct link to each other, when they just needed to use Unlimited Burst at the same time? Physically interfacing with the hotel's hardware suggests to me that the room was cut off from wireless signals, just like in the room where Yuniko met with Haru and Taku concerning the Incarnate System. They likewise plugged into the hardware, but they didn't direct link to each other. |
||||
2013-03-16, 20:52 | Link #160 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
|
Quote:
Quote:
However, I'm up in the early hours of the morning (generally 5am), riding around in a car to make deliveries. While doing so, I can use my iPhone to read posts between stops, and to make small replies to posts that aren't too big. I can read and post more freely in the afternoon (generally 2pm), and I go to bed early in the evening (generally 9pm). |
||
Thread Tools | |
|
|