Macross - Music discussion (Part 1, pre-Delta)

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Am I the only one who finds this first OST kind of meh? I mean it's listenable at all, but it's not even close to the greatest OST of the year or anything like that. Just because it's Yoko Kanno doesn't automatically make it great to me and it really seems like she's just phoning this one in. That I know for a fact I won't remember a single track from this even a year from now drives home the idea that this just isn't her best work.

For me the vocals just kinda dwarfed the bgm tracks, I must have listened to Infinity like a hundred times. I only wish my postal service in my area didn't suck out loud since it is likely that I won't get my copy until like almost aweek after everyone else

[Kaioshin Sama]

If anyone's interested I just hit up a full review of the OST.

Yes overall I felt it was about a 7.5/10 on the overall scale, which is somewhere between good and very good. I found myself liking the Megumi Nakajima songs and the orchestral pieces while not so much liking the May n' (or whatever her name is) and more synthesized sounding bits. Maybe the next OST will offer something a little more powerful and worth of all time greatness, but somehow I doubt it. It takes a lot for me to consider an OST an all time fave, and Macross Frontier's just isn't shaping up like that.

[Terra]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Am I the only one who finds this first OST kind of meh? I mean it's listenable at all, but it's not even close to the greatest OST of the year or anything like that. Just because it's Yoko Kanno doesn't automatically make it great to me and it really seems like she's just phoning this one in. That I know for a fact I won't remember a single track from this even a year from now drives home the idea that this just isn't her best work.

Names when it comes to OST's don't mean a lot to me, except for Yuki Kajuira (but that has more to do with the fact she tends to make songs/tunes I like a lot than her name so she stands out for me), but even then if I don't like a song, I don't like a song. It doesn't matter who did it. But I do love the songs on this OST. Butwhen it comes to BGM it has to be a really stand out tune for it to make my playlist since I'm not the biggest BGM person. There are a couple of there I'll happily listen to over and over, but that's it. But that's what I normally find with OST's with my preference for songs.

[Westlo]

Kaoishin I kinda get a chuckle when I saw your rating for Don't Be Late, I remember you didn't really like it at first and couldn't see it as an OP at all... it would've been a far superior op to Triangler too

And Tally Ho to me comes across as this series equivalent of Dogfight, in that it's a really dynamic battle track... and I bet it will be used for a Alto/Brera fight. Vital Force has a more dogfight sound to it imo with those drums... I kept thinking the part in Dogfight after those drums is going to kick in

And this isn't Yoko Kanno phoning it in, that would be Darker Than Black OST 1. This is probably the closest she's been to capturing her mid to late nineties sound this decade.

Originally Posted by Shiroth

How can we be sure of that? The series is only going to be 25 episodes. I'll be surprised if we see enough Yoko Kanno material that'll push it to 3 soundtracks.

Macross Plus had 2 OSTS & a For Fans Only album and that was off 4x45 minute OVA episodes. Escaflowne had 4 osts.. I'll be shocked if we don't hit 3 or 4 osts with Frontier.. the second half is going to have the following vocal songs in Interstellar Flight, Lion and Northern Cross. There's plenty of bgms that didn't get put in from the first 9 episodes, a few off the top is the music that plays when Sheryl talks to Alto about Galaxy, the break beat panty theft chase one, next episode preview, the music that plays when Michael tries to chat up Grace.

And should be a lot of new bgms from 10-25 to use anyway, in addition to using the ones on the OST we haven't heard yet like Vital Force, Zero Hour and Tally Ho.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Well intially I wasn't going to do anything like this, but I was sort of prompted to when I realized every review I was seeing for it on animeblogger seemed more like grovelling fanboyism rather than an actual review. They all started the same with singing songs of praise about Yoko Kanno and finished with them saying that is was one of the best OST's they'd ever heard in there lives, and I was just like "No way.....there's gotta be some leeway for criticism even if it is a solid if passable OST". As usual I try to fill the void with something a little different while trying to be as fair as I can.

[Tak]

Hmm, I love Aimo and Yoko's coglangs. More often than not, the melody accompanying the coglangs are quite nice, but there are exceptions, such as the torch song from Mac Plus.

Maybe thats just me, but coglangs fit the Macross universe quite nicely. After all, the Zents do have their own language.

- Tak (*Looks at banner* Hmm, didn't know you were into Eushully games)

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Tak

Hmm, I love Aimo and Yoko's coglangs. More often than not, the melody accompanying the coglangs are quite nice, but there are exceptions, such as the torch song from Mac Plus.

Maybe thats just me, but coglangs fit the Macross universe quite nicely. After all, the Zents do have their own language.

- Tak (*Looks at banner* Hmm, didn't know you were into Eushully games)

*Whistles quietely* Oh hey, how'd that get there.

And I didn't know anyone else knew who/what Eushully was. Drop the name key or Type-Moon and everybody will be all like "Yeah yeah, the Visual Novel makers", but drop the name Eushully and

Yeah, that's what I might say if it wasn't just the fact that it's Yoko Kanno. She does this kind of thing all the time. Besides Zentran sounds more like what you here in this:

[Tak]

Well, personally, I cannot imagine anyone singing with the Zentran language. Its just... not right for singing... (not even when women are speaking it)

Which reminds me. Anyone seen Orguss II? Notice how they talk

Speaking of Eushully, my favorite company in general is Illusion (hands down). Besides them, I also like (and not ashamed to admit it) Active, 13cm, MBS Truth, Marin, Clockup, Bluegale, Lune, Tinkerbell, Kaguya, Bishop, Crossnet-Pie, and of course Eushully.

Yeah, there are more, but I cannot recall many with their own set of production staff and designated artists. The companies I listed however, do have their own set of production staff and artists.

Of course, the funny thing is when you also recognize several main-stream VAs when you play them. Such as Soichiro Hoshi, who went to voice for the popular Muv-Luv series from Age.

- Tak

[Westlo]

First day sales for the OST.. is 10304 copies and it places #2 on the daily albums chart.

http://www.oricon.co.jp/rank/ja/d/

Apparently her previous highest ranking on the Oricon album charts was #44 for her CMYoko, though still waiting for confirmation on that.

Triangler = 75k
Diamond Crevasse/Don't Be Late = 82.5k
OST = 10k in one day.

Macross brand is still strong, Interstellar Flight should sell well and I expect the same for the 2nd op/ed single as well as OST 2.

[cerrian]

Originally Posted by Westlo

First day sales for the OST.. is 10304 copies and it places #2 on the daily albums chart.

http://www.oricon.co.jp/rank/ja/d/

Apparently her previous highest ranking on the Oricon album charts was #44 for her CMYoko, though still waiting for confirmation on that.

Triangler = 75k
Diamond Crevasse/Don't Be Late = 82.5k
OST = 10k in one day.

Macross brand is still strong, Interstellar Flight should sell well and I expect the same for the 2nd op/ed single as well as OST 2.

Need you to help me out here in interpreting these numbers. Are the good, medicore, poor? How do they compare against other OSTs and singles?

[Westlo]

Diamond Crevasse/Don't Be Late and Triangler are in the top 50 sellings singles for the year, I think Triangler was #44 and Diamond Crevasse/Don't Be Late was #42... but Diamond Crevasse/Don't Be Late should now be in the high 30's.

So yeah they are selling well, Triangler for instance is the highest selling cd single Maaya Sakamoto has released, her previous highs being the record of lodoss war op (66k) and Hemisphere (my personal fav anime op period) from RahXephon (54k). And May'ns single is going to outsell this (as it should, both songs are way better than Triangler) by the time it stops selling...

For an anime this is selling very well, especially since it's made for the show and isn't some popular band releasing their next single and using it as an OP to get some extra sales... like the first Gundam 00 opening. Though Orange Range's Code Geasss R2 OP is selling a lot more than their previous singles, though still a long way away from what they use to sell.

EDIT

Oh just found the updated singles chart for 2008, I don't have japanese characters on my comp so forgive the ???. Here's the position of the Macross singles, Code Geass R2 and a few random spots.

*1 *,437,596 **2,387 そばにいるね / 青山テルマ feat.Soulja 08/01/23
*9 *,248,372 **5,286 SUMMER TIME / NEWS 08/05/08
19 *,143,599 ***,*** way of life / V6 07/12/12
20 *,133,249 *21,158 虹 / Aqua Timez 08/05/08
35 *,*83,009 ***,*** ストーリー / ゆず 08/02/06
36 *,*82,671 **7,645 ダイヤモンド・クレバス/射手座☆午後九時Don't be late / シェリル・ノーム starring May'n 08/05/08
45 *,*76,313 **4,289 トライアングラー / 坂本真綾 08/04/23 (<--- Triangler)
47 *,*73,287 *73,287 O2 / ORANGE RANGE 08/05/28

Albums

*1 1,445,696 ***,960 EXILE LOVE / EXILE 07/12/12
*2 1,369,942 **2,005 ５２９６ / コブクロ 07/12/19
*3 1,132,454 **7,898 EXILE CATCHY BEST / EXILE 08/03/26
*4 *,910,890 *19,767 HEART STATION / 宇多田ヒカル 08/03/19
25 *,233,993 **1,299 VOCALIST 2 / 徳永英明 06/08/30 累計689,345
26 *,226,639 **1,330 ZARD Request Best ～beautiful memory ～ / ZARD 08/01/23
49 *,110,055 **9,221 E=MC2 / Mariah Caray 08/04/16
50 *,105,461 ***,*** As I Am / Alicia Keys 07/11/21(輸07/11/13) 累計191,471

As you can see it will be hard for Frontier to place in the top 50, but I doubt any other anime ost will come close to it's sales, except maybe Evangelion Movie ost... which I should look up.

[thr]

If a Yoko Kanno score is great or not mostly depends on her "inspirational" material. For "The Target" credit should be given to David Arnold's "Independence Day." Of course there's also the "nod" to Hans Zimmer's "Pirates of the Caribbean" theme in "Big Boys" and at the end of "Tally Ho!". At least these two are blatantly obvious.

[.Mero]

Ordered my OST this week.
Will get it from the net as well cause i can't wait ^^

First Anime OST i've bought in a long time (first anime i'm actively watching in a long time as well for that matter)

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Westlo

Diamond Crevasse/Don't Be Late and Triangler are in the top 50 sellings singles for the year, I think Triangler was #44 and Diamond Crevasse/Don't Be Late was #42... but Diamond Crevasse/Don't Be Late should now be in the high 30's.

So yeah they are selling well, Triangler for instance is the highest selling cd single Maaya Sakamoto has released, her previous highs being the record of lodoss war op (66k) and Hemisphere (my personal fav anime op period) from RahXephon (54k). And May'ns single is going to outsell this (as it should, both songs are way better than Triangler) by the time it stops selling...

For an anime this is selling very well, especially since it's made for the show and isn't some popular band releasing their next single and using it as an OP to get some extra sales... like the first Gundam 00 opening. Though Orange Range's Code Geasss R2 OP is selling a lot more than their previous singles, though still a long way away from what they use to sell.

EDIT

Oh just found the updated singles chart for 2008, I don't have japanese characters on my comp so forgive the ???. Here's the position of the Macross singles, Code Geass R2 and a few random spots.

*1 *,437,596 **2,387 そばにいるね / 青山テルマ feat.Soulja 08/01/23
*9 *,248,372 **5,286 SUMMER TIME / NEWS 08/05/08
19 *,143,599 ***,*** way of life / V6 07/12/12
20 *,133,249 *21,158 虹 / Aqua Timez 08/05/08
35 *,*83,009 ***,*** ストーリー / ゆず 08/02/06
36 *,*82,671 **7,645 ダイヤモンド・クレバス/射手座☆午後九時Don't be late / シェリル・ノーム starring May'n 08/05/08
45 *,*76,313 **4,289 トライアングラー / 坂本真綾 08/04/23 (<--- Triangler)
47 *,*73,287 *73,287 O2 / ORANGE RANGE 08/05/28

Albums

*1 1,445,696 ***,960 EXILE LOVE / EXILE 07/12/12
*2 1,369,942 **2,005 5296 / コブクロ 07/12/19
*3 1,132,454 **7,898 EXILE CATCHY BEST / EXILE 08/03/26
*4 *,910,890 *19,767 HEART STATION / 宇多田ヒカル 08/03/19
25 *,233,993 **1,299 VOCALIST 2 / 徳永英明 06/08/30 累計689,345
26 *,226,639 **1,330 ZARD Request Best ~beautiful memory ~ / ZARD 08/01/23
49 *,110,055 **9,221 E=MC2 / Mariah Caray 08/04/16
50 *,105,461 ***,*** As I Am / Alicia Keys 07/11/21(輸07/11/13) 累計191,471

That depresses the heck out of me considering that Yakosoku Wa Iranai and Hemisphere are actually great songs (first being my all time favourite anime opening) while Triangler is just....ugh!

[Westlo]

The sales for Triangler probably have to do more with Macross than Maaya Sakamoto. Because Yoko Kanno, Maaya Sakamoto, May'n are setting career highs right now, I doubt Megumi will top whatever she sets with Interstellar Flight as well, in a non Macross Frnotier project anyway.

Sorta like how Nami Tamaki's 3 Gundam SEED songs all sold fantastic but everything else she did was nowhere near as high in sales.

Tamaki Nami

Singles
194,167　 Believe
157,190 　Realize
36,260　 Prayer
45,869　 Shining Star ☆ 忘れないから
30,863　 ↑ Heart & Soul ↑
173,840　 Reason
64,973 　Fortune
33,305　 Heroine
47,474　 GET WILD
20,431　 MY WAY/Sunrize
39,288　 Result
18,970　 Sanctuary
6,404　 CROSS SEASON *
21,164　 Brightdown ** (D.Gray Man OP2... which shows how much of a powerhouse SEED and Dokoru was in moving cd singles)

[Wild Goose]

Just a quick post before I do a full on review of the OST, since it seems everyone is discussing their thoughts on it...

Generally for me I note that the songs that stick out to me are the ones that I find myself humming to throughout the day. Which have been Big Boys and Private Army
Then again I always was a sucker for mariachi guitar... Especially when Ace Combat Zero showed up

But it seems that the near-unanimous feeling is that Diamond Crevasse is fuck wins. I'd have to agree, it is. Though regards the SMS song, IMO it's just a lulz song, not meant to be SRS business.

Though... to be honest, listening to an OST while not watching the scene the BGM is tied to kinda weakens the power of the song; IMO the BGMs are keyed to specific scenes, which is where they get their power from. Take the Imperial March; hear it on it's own and it's just John WIlliams music. Watch when it's in use and you go "VADER/EMPIRE". Or Danger Zone; it's not really that great, all in all, about 7.5/10 IMO, but it's when it's paired with Top Gun that it becomes truly awesome.

Just listening to the BGMs on their own, the BGMs are weakened, as the impact they try to convey is lessened due to seperation from the scene they were melded with; the BGMs support the scene, so without the scene their power is inherently weakened. It's why Viral's Theme is considered so awesome, or how Libera Me From Hell is also considered great win: because both BGMs accompany memorable scenes.

...ugh basically BGMs by themselves are inherently weakened when listenened to.

...okay I have no idea how I got this far from "I like Big Boys and Private Army", IS: Disrupted Tangent musta been set to passive mode.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

...ugh basically BGMs by themselves are inherently weakened when listenened to.

Eh, no no, uh un, nope. Imperial March from Star Wars, anyone?

On the other hand, I have to agree, Triangular is one of the worst OP I've ever heard in a long, long time. I mean, it is not bad, but it is very, very bland.

And this is coming from Yoko. How could that be! I don't believe!

- Tak

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by thr

If a Yoko Kanno score is great or not mostly depends on her "inspirational" material. For "The Target" credit should be given to David Arnold's "Independence Day." Of course there's also the "nod" to Hans Zimmer's "Pirates of the Caribbean" theme in "Big Boys" and at the end of "Tally Ho!". At least these two are blatantly obvious.

I don't see how that's true when Kanno has done similar pieces in the past.

Ah well.

[Deathkillz]

Well I thoroughly enjoyed this OST

I though some of the songs were more amazing than others but overall it was pretty pleasing to listen to.

Aimo still wins it for me and I still want to burn the carrot song from my brain though (at least the image that associates with it anyway).

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Tak

Eh, no no, uh un, nope. Imperial March from Star Wars, anyone?

You've proven my point, Tak. The Imperial March works because we have the strong connections to the movies; everyone knows it and knows what it means. But to someone who hasn't seen Star Wars, they'd go, "Meh, okay, what's so special about it?" Likewise Sorairo Days, which generally speaking is rather meh as an anime song, and not really that awesome. Then you get to episode 27 of Gurren Lagann, as first Rasengan Overlord and then Tengan Toppa Gurren Lagann embark on a 4-minute epic smackdown.

Watched on their own, the songs aren't as epic.

As another example, Megalith~Agnus Dei takes the requiem mass Agnus Dei and turns it into a BGM considered one of the most awesome in the entire Ace Combat franchise - because of Mission 18: Megalith, where you first run a gauntlet of 30 Su-37 Terminators, and then fly into the enemy base, and then up an ICBM launch tube, all the while as the sky is raining asteroids. And it makes the words "Agnus dei, qui peceta mundis, dona eis requiem" sound badass.

Incidentally that line, translated from latin, means "Lamb of God, who takes away the sins of the world, grant them rest."

On the other hand, I have to agree, Triangular is one of the worst OP I've ever heard in a long, long time. I mean, it is not bad, but it is very, very bland.

It was okay at first, but after a while I get tired of "Who are you going to kiss, me or that girl~" and substitute it for hot blooded GAR (JAM project) or the insane mad guitar skills of Dragonforce: "Through the fire and the flames we carry on!" (Through the Fire and the Flames); "For victory we ride, FURY OF THE STORM!!!" ("Fury of the Storm")

And this is coming from Yoko. How could that be! I don't believe!

...you aren't from Kota Kinabalu and from IS CB1 Yr 2003, are you, Tak? Because you just sounded like WCW, a guy I know.