Anyone else thinks that console games are a hindrance to game development?

[Sugetsu]

I found a great video that explains the situation of the MMO industry, and in part, the gaming industry in general.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...Future-of-MMOs

[Kyuu]

Guess what type of games that I've been finding more interesting that any console game?

APPS!!!

As much as I dislike anything Apple... I did break down several months ago and bought myself an iTouch. Well, guess what? I've been paying more attention to the little games in there. They're cheap and simple; but I can play them over and over.

[Jaden]

About games getting easier, I don't see it as a problem.

For example, in World of Warcraft, there's already the heroic difficulty but it's not quite enough. The way it currently works is you have to first farm things on the easy difficulty, to be able to do the same thing on heroic difficulty. After all that farming not many people are motivated to do the same content, even if it's gotten more tricky.

The way it should be is, you have like 5 difficulty settings, and you can start wherever you like. This way all players can get the amount of challenge they want and the game doesn't have to be inherently easy or hard, casual or hardcore. Dungeons and Dragons online is doing this pretty well.

[Ricky Controversy]

Originally Posted by Jaden

About games getting easier, I don't see it as a problem.

For example, in World of Warcraft, there's already the heroic difficulty but it's not quite enough. The way it currently works is you have to first farm things on the easy difficulty, to be able to do the same thing on heroic difficulty. After all that farming not many people are motivated to do the same content, even if it's gotten more tricky.

The way it should be is, you have like 5 difficulty settings, and you can start wherever you like. This way all players can get the amount of challenge they want and the game doesn't have to be inherently easy or hard, casual or hardcore. Dungeons and Dragons online is doing this pretty well.

Part of the issue with this is that there is a very low individual skill ceiling in World of Warcraft and its ilk. The vast, vast majority of obstacles in the game are combat scenarios, which are mostly handled by RNG, and you can tilt that in your favor by stacking the right stats. But you never have to dodge, parry or block on your own, and hitting a target is just a matter of standing in the right spot. The only real difficulty metric in such a game is the size of the monster's numbers.

A little stat tweaking here and there is fine, but the stat systems that work for keeping things straight in tabletop Dungeons and Dragons are not conducive to an engaging, real-time game experience.

[synaesthetic]

I've been saying this sort of thing for years.

Roleplaying games should be about roleplaying. They should also have some sort of real, immersive involvement.

They shouldn't be Excel: The Calculating.

[ChainLegacy]

I agree. That is why I hated WoW endgame. All the best players had exactly the same gear and spec for their job. There really is no customization.

[synaesthetic]

When asked what my perfect RPG would be, I usually say:

"Take one part Silent Hill, one part Elder Scrolls, one part Deus Ex and one part Shadow of the Colossus. Add Zelda to taste and serve hot."

No HUD. No hitpoint gauge. No floating numbers. No arbitrary stats visible to the player. No repetitive grinding or leveling up. No abstract "point assignments," just TES-style "use it a lot and get better at it." Switchable first-person or third-person views. Beautiful artwork and graphics. Full (good) voice acting. Stunning ambient audio/soundtrack. A heavy focus on immersion. Dark fantasy, horror or sci-fi/cyberpunk atmosphere and story theme.

Do that and you won't see me for a month or two.

[Hooves]

World of Warcraft lost its customization ever since BC released, Blizzard has been releasing these expansions quite fast (year by year) which means they are generally rushing the content. Even if its a year, they still have to sacrifice some staff members to answer the tickets, and phone calls made by the players and their "problems"

That is exactly how WoW is getting easier, it is more rushed then anything else. Burning Crusade was probably started right after Vanilla-WoW first released, which means they had plenty of time. Keeping the difficulty of the raids, but the gear customization felt odd, in Vanilla you could basically raid in blue/green gear. But now its pretty much get this certain "gearscore" or no raid at all.

Wrath of the Lich King was the expansion that was most rushed, since Burning Crusade was finished, and people pretty much tram through the bosses, Blizzard still needed more time to finish Wotlk without boring its player-base with the same content, so they released Sunwell Plateau to keep the players entertained for atleast 6-7 months so they can rush through the rest of the expansion.

Cataclysm on the other hand, had plenty of hand-word placed on it. The work started "exactly" when Wotlk released to the public, which means this expansion is actually not "rushed" this time. This may fix WoW's rushed expansions reputation. But the fact they put to much work on Cataclysm when Wotlk was just brand new, they still needed to keep their player-base from being bored. Ulduar was actually a great expansion raid, but they still needed more time and the players already killed Yogg'Saron, so they just sent another "filler" raid our way to keep us distracted. Then came Icecrown Citadel, judging by the difficulty of things, this raid was the most "rushed" out of all the raids in Wotlk. Which meant that they couldn't put to much work on it, they were probably to busy wanting to "perfect" Cataclysm to go into beta at certain spots, that they dint want to put to much work on Icecrown Citadel sadly.

Oh no!! I'm going
Ummm... Ummm.. Playstation 3 are getting down-grades from the majority?? I cant think of anything.

[synaesthetic]

I actually remember raiding AQ40 and Naxx40 in blues and the odd epic or two on my shadow priest.

[Nosauz]

This really isn't about console's perse, game development has come to an impass. Developers have traditionally on the PC let gamers further their brand by giving them dev tools to tinker with the game as they see fit, but with the rise of console/casual gaming developers are trying to slowly retain more and more control of the brands and games they publish. The content they want to develop such as the Resurgance pack for CoD MW2 easily conflict with user created content and to an extent they want to compete with no one and hence this is about the walled garden or open garden approach. If pc gaming and game development does shift to the closed garden expect to see less innovation, less interesting concepts and in the required to pay more for less.

[synaesthetic]

PC gaming is still heavy on the modding. Even games with multiplatform releases (such as Fallout: New Vegas) will be eminently moddable on the PC.

[Nosauz]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

PC gaming is still heavy on the modding. Even games with multiplatform releases (such as Fallout: New Vegas) will be eminently moddable on the PC.

Well we still have Civ series, Valve, but with content push to console we might eventually be walled off too, an example would be MW2 and lackluster ports to the PC for multiplatform games. Also rage has dropped dedis which means that your modded material has no real place to be shared.

[synaesthetic]

Considering how Valve built their entire business on the strength of their products' moddability, I doubt very seriously that they'll be embracing a walled-garden approach any time soon.

As far as Activision/Infinity Ward goes, well, we've already discussed how Bobby Kotick is a huge douchebag. MW can fucking die in a hotel fire. I don't even give a shit about stupid military themed shooters, anyway.

[Nosauz]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Considering how Valve built their entire business on the strength of their products' moddability, I doubt very seriously that they'll be embracing a walled-garden approach any time soon.

As far as Activision/Infinity Ward goes, well, we've already discussed how Bobby Kotick is a huge douchebag. MW can fucking die in a hotel fire. I don't even give a shit about stupid military themed shooters, anyway.

I'm just pointing out a trend/change in design philosophy. In the end I don't really care all that much about MW2 but still it's an alarming trend that really shouldn't catch on, but might since it is rather profitable to activision,

[Tsuyoshi]

They should really make more games like this one. It's very original and you really have to think about how to get past each stage. If they made console games like this, it would be amazing.

[colorles]

yeah they are, although the industry would not be what it is without consoles so to speak. that being said yeah there definatly some sort of a hindrace to game development as they go on. sucks for 'real' gamers, but whateva

oldskool games all day ;]

[Hooves]

Originally Posted by Yoko Takeo

They should really make more games like this one. It's very original and you really have to think about how to get past each stage. If they made console games like this, it would be amazing.

That game was very hard, especially the last one Took me quite a while to figure out how to beat it. Truly this game can be addicting

[reflection]

For all the people who claim graphics does not equal gaming, we are just not at the point yet where we are able to every detail relevant. I believe that nVidia's PhysX or similar technologies, are not gimmicks, but just not fully utilized to their potential in the current time. Physics and graphics go hand in hand, so when the physics engines catch up to the graphics engines and begin to actually push the graphical qualities of a game, we won't be seeing people lamenting over this anymore.

A very good example of a recent visual development that drastically changes gameplay is true day and night cycles. There is now natural progression and the gameplay dynamics are no longer arbitrary. For example, you're in a rally time trial, the corners(turns) become less and less visible (there are no floodlights around obviously) and you are now required to turn on headlights to adjust for the visibility. The next element to include would be changes in temperature, which also brings visual cures at its extremes - you're trying to snipe your opposition 500m away, but the heatwaves obscure the 'real' image. Proper weather systems needs to be in order as well, where you'll find naturally forming puddles, patches of ice, wind, fog, etc. Although weather does occur in current games and are somewhat sufficient graphically, they are scripted for certain events and are disconnected in the physics department. The same could be said for other examples that I may or may not have listed - as they are now, it should be considered as content due to it mostly being hand done. This suggests that graphics should be continually improved such that this time is invested into actual plot content while also enjoying the eye candy and its affect on the gameplay. Of course, this level of detail may not apply to stylized games or those that purposefully defy the laws of physics at its core.

On another topic, I have to agree with whomever probably already mentioned that there's been a trend of games having decreasing difficulty. Yes, of course you want to progress and realize the story of the game, but many do not give you the feeling of 'Omg! I finally beat the game!" Also, there are way too many aids in particular game types, which feeds the user with what I'd feel as a false sense of achievement. I guess this is the line that separates the casual gamers from the enthusiasts. A nitpick of mine is FPS with gamepads which the game provides inherent autoaim for. I was almost sick of it even for something like Batman:AA.

I hope I didn't write too much there for it to be disjointed and full of holes (like Kubo's stuff).