Guilty Crown - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[djmaca]

Originally Posted by Aphrah

People may be jumping to conclusions by saying that Tsugumi and Ayase had a hand in the usurping of Shu; it's still too early to say for sure. Personally, I'd like to see Yahiro, Ayase, and Tsugumi return to Shu's side. As for the rest, screw them. Well.. except for scythe girl.

I'd love to see Arisa and Souta get skinned alive by Mana; but alas, I'm afraid somebody might beat her to it.

Tsugumi is but Ayase isn't. Personally I want Ayase to go back to Shu and hang Tsugumi on a tree to be pecked by birds....

[Flawfinder]

Originally Posted by Xaturas

Naaah we don't sympathize with him, and his "my king power" was facepalm worthy.
However we don't diss him saying he deserve it.

As far as it goes I'm Neutral to Shu/Inori and hateful to anyone else in this story (besides the people that don't have any role whatsoever besides being in the background sometimes).

I never said he deserved it. It's just that he annoyed me so much that I couldn't feel anything but glee and satisfaction. Plus, I actually do want to see what happens next episode. I mean, yes I do look forward to each episode, but this time, I genuinely want to see what comes of this.

Shu/Inori I hate mostly because of Inori. I have to be honest: I would have liked Shu a little more if they gave him an interesting partner to work off of. Like Yuki/Yuno from Future Diary. Or Rider/Waver from Fate/Zero. I'm a huge fan of wimps teamed up with interesting people, male or female, and the fact that Inori isn't interesting, but also doesn't hang out with Shu much, really disappointed me. And yes, the lack of any other good supporting characters doesn't help the show at all. Who are we supposed to like?

And like I predicted, this episode is getting a ton of attention. Lover and haters can find something to enjoy with this show, and this episode defined that.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

If a decoy was necessary, I really wonder why they didn't even bother using Arisa's Void, who "magically" withdrew the shield once the assault started.
Another measure would be even more simple: using tsugumi void and create clones to make true and safe distraction.

Objectively speaking, the plan the council has set doesn't make much sense considering what they had at their disposal.

I guess in order to attack, they needed to withdraw the shield. However, I do agree with you that the plan was not well thought out, and other plans would have been better. I can only assume that since they are a bunch of high schoolers instead of military strategists, they could not think of a better plan.

I definitely agree that using Tsugumi void clones would have been the way to go. Tsugumi has been pushed to the back, due to her B-class status, so it is possible that is the reason why she did not communicate directly with Shu and not given him the suggestion to use her clones.

They definitely did not use all their tools at their disposal, but considering who was advising him at the top, it is understandable (Power hungry Yahiro, rapist guy, and non-strategic Inori).

Originally Posted by Kakkou

There is still another aspect of Shu's plan that I felt did warrant the need for the students rushing in as fodder and that would be the fact he needed specific students to be positioned near the tower for him to use their voids. I'm kinda assuming that that's part of the reason he didn't just solo his way through.

Of course, how it was executed is still questionable.

Yeah, the problem with this is that it is assuming that they survive the assault in order for Shu to use the voids. It would have worked better if the ones needed ran along side him, while the others ran ahead first to clear the way.

[leon4281isback]

Everyone, all I can say is this, after all the crap that guy went through since the start. Shu has to make a comeback. I'm not saying that I'm completely on his side or anything, it's just that that guy had issues, and every time it got worse every chance it got every time he acted. Of course few people act like that there's going to be some good ahead after going coup on Shu, well it doesn't, it never does, it never will, and I bet they'll SMACK REAL HARD INTO SOME S**T EVEN WORSE WITH GAI THAN THEY WERE WITH SHU...this anime isn't over yet. And I'm not jumping on any bandwagon or saying s**t even after this anime is finished. With that. PEACE OUT!

[com_gwp]

^Of course he'll make some kind of comeback, he has protagonist plot armor, and the OP already spoiled his "TRACE ON" arm already.

[leon4281isback]

^Thanks for pointing the obvious, still what really makes this whole thing funny is that almost every person posted nonsense about Shu and Gai....We're not even at the end yet, and proclaiming such crud between them. Granted several things was going to happen to Shu after what had happened, still I seem to be one of the few people that still not saying a darn thing until the end.

I'm not saying anything with Gai, knowing eventually that fool's gonna fall on his freaking face at some point and I'll just laugh at him. Why? Cause I can be very sinister sometimes, and for a reason that makes sense.

I forgot a few other people, but I'm a calm person about it. I believe in Karma, and karma is definitely coming for a few people in Guilty Crown after the s**t they've done...I'm a patient man...

[Enternal]

Originally Posted by leon4281isback

I forgot a few other people, but I'm a calm person about it. I believe in Karma, and karma is definitely coming for a few people in Guilty Crown after the s**t they've done...I'm a patient man...

Hell yeah. If you think about it, Souta is actually more of a wimp/coward than even Shu is. Everything that happened to Shu, he have yet to mentally ran away from.

I will say this as well. Shu if a fucking wimp/coward and is indecisive. Definitely true. However, he's also very courageous by that fact that he face everything he went through without running away and making excuses.

He first met Inori. He let the soldiers take Inori without any sort of resistance. He faced himself and saying that he is a total coward. It takes courage to admit to yourself that you're a coward. He went and find Funeral Parlor.

He trusted Yahiro but was betrayed by Yahiro. He fully faced the fact that Yahiro betrayed him but he is understanding and forgave Yahiro.

He had to kill Yahiro's brother. He faced the fact that he killed Yahiro's brother and admitted it directly to Yahiro's face.

The students were locked within the walls. He faced the fact that things will not go as peaceful even if he wishes it to be. He was willing to become a leader after Yahiro promoted him.

Hare was killed. He never ran away from the truth that she's dead. No, he just went ****** Hitler. Either way, he never ran from her death. Just did something that is not what she wished.

Even when he was being tyranical, he was still trying to save the students and was betrayed by them AND Gai. Let see how he will face that next episode.

Souta on the other hand after all that morals and "white" talk several episodes back, betrayed Shu and made an excuse for it by saying he's not wrong to betray Shu. Total coward and not taking any responsibilities for his own actions.

I do have to agree that Shu/Inori is very boring. There's like no dynamics between the two which is a bit sad really because they could have made the relationship between the two a bit more interesting.

[Arya]

Really good episode, even if fast paced. At first I felt really sorry for Arisa and in the end that feeling got mixed with a bit of hate
But Shu reaped what he sowed. I wasn't shocked by the betrayal, except for the fast forward build-up, nor for the moment they did it. Shu was their only option, so they couldn't betray him before. Who would have save their asses? Why they are not a bit grateful? I mean, as I read in this thread on the internet there are people who really hate Shu, even after he saved all who survived, so it is not so hard to believe to that behavior. Put all that haters inside that school
For now I suspend any judgment on Ayase. She obviously was in the dark about the conspiracy. Don't know what to think about Tsugumi. I mean, she, the first time Shu acted like a tyrant, has never said anything, as she knew that was the right path. Cynically. She in a way said ok, I accept whatever you want of me. But in return I 'll do the same to you. And so she did. She did not scheme against him, she let the things go "naturally". Her only action was to free that Argo. But I think she did it with good intentions.
A bit contrived, ah? I liked her so I'll give some more time before thumbs her down.

[leon4281isback]

Man...this show may have hyped things up for some watchers, but I just couldn't completely get into it. We get a main character with LOTS OF ISSUES THAT CAME BACK TO KICK HIM IN THE A**, Another main who comes back from the dead after some time and is attempting to do some obvious crap, few supporting characters who are by every sense of the word: PATHETIC TO NO END. I just can't see some of these guys as redeemable except maybe Shu at the end.

I don't hate this anime, I never said that, it's just....UGH! Man I want this thing to hit a climax and some characters TAKE MAJOR HEAT after this crud...

*calming down* Thing is, when facing such a crisis, you never know what's going to happen. Such irrationality and desperation to survive among other things fills up a person's mind, knowing they might just die in the struggle....they do what they had to do to survive at the expense of someone else....still sometimes things might not always work out for them after what they did....

[Joachim]

Originally Posted by djmaca

Uhh.. LOL. What? I got the notion it was the other way around.

But I like him crazy evil.

I just don't like f**king backstabbing people who easily forgets what their "king" did for them. THen they go worship Jesus Gai, f**k him.

Funny thing indeed, they fukin backstab the one that made their escape possible and worship some unknown white haired badarse wannabe who did nothing?

The end justifies the mean man, shu did what shu thought was good for everyone and the result? they did escape the redline/wall, and the first thing they do with their monkey brain is backstab him, fun time.

Man there sure are a lot of wacky people in GCuniverse

[leon4281isback]

Originally Posted by Joachim

Funny thing indeed, they fukin backstab the one that made their escape possible and worship some unknown white haired badarse wannabe who did nothing?

The end justifies the mean man, shu did what shu thought was good for everyone and the result? they did escape the redline/wall, and the first thing they do with their monkey brain is backstab him, fun time.

Man there sure are a lot of wacky people in GCuniverse

Not just in Guilty Crown, but in several anime/manga with people who have to do the most horrible things to someone else to save themselves. Such crisis can do that to people and bring out the worst in them. That's what makes them very pathetic at times. Shu was always a boy with such issues, after that whole thing, it can either change him for better or worse.

[Same_Shark]

Originally Posted by leon4281isback

Not just in Guilty Crown, but in several anime/manga with people who have to do the most horrible things to someone else to save themselves. Such crisis can do that to people and bring out the worst in them. That's what makes them very pathetic at times. Shu was always a boy with such issues, after that whole thing, it can either change him for better or worse.

That doesn't necessarily make them pathetic, just human. Doing what one must to survive is not pathetic at all. Shu's problem is that while he was being a tyrant, he let his dogs run wild. Eventually, people were going to have enough and strike back. Inori is also to blame with her little stunt. I 100% don't blame Arisa for doing what she did, and honestly, she should have shot Inori where she stood.

[Kismet-chan]

But what Inori did wasn't really her fault, if we are to assume that it was Mana coming through her. She was obviously disturbed by the action after the fact, so if she had complete control over herself it's likely that she would not have done Arisa any harm whatsoever.

As for what Arisa did... I cannot say how I feel about it (I'm mostly angered/surprised by it). I'm more confused as to WHY she did it than anything. ALL that just because she found out that people die when their voids break? There's got to be more to it than that... Especially since she seemed fairly unmoved by Shu becoming the new school leader back when it happened. Basically, she had NO problems up until Argo came to retrieve her. It seems like she magically transformed into a desperate usurper slut over the course of 1-2 episodes.

[thundrakkon]

I think that the reason why a lot people dislike Arisa is that they feel that she took the easy way out. She did not have self respect for herself and used her body to get what she wanted instead of trying to find another way to resolve her dilemma. Furthermore, she tried to place blame for doing what she had to do on others (well, that's the impression I get), and used what she did in order to do more deceitful things (betray Shu AFTER Shu saves them all).

[djmaca]

Originally Posted by Kismet-chan

As for what Arisa did... I cannot say how I feel about it (I'm mostly angered/surprised by it). I'm more confused as to WHY she did it than anything. ALL that just because she found out that people die when their voids break? There's got to be more to it than that... Especially since she seemed fairly unmoved by Shu becoming the new school leader back when it happened. Basically, she had NO problems up until Argo came to retrieve her. It seems like she magically transformed into a desperate usurper slut over the course of 1-2 episodes.

"So everything that makes me whore..." -Arisa

Indeed...

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

I think that the reason why a lot people dislike Arisa is that they feel that she took the easy way out. She did not have self respect for herself and used her body to get what she wanted instead of trying to find another way to resolve her dilemma. Furthermore, she tried to place blame for doing what she had to do on others (well, that's the impression I get), and used what she did in order to do more deceitful things (betray Shu AFTER Shu saves them all).

Basically she betrayed all that her character stood up for, she wanted the ultimate self protection but was too cowardly to take the leap for it, she thought Inori would come back for her if word got around that she was leaking information, what saddens me she had enough of a tactical advantage to convince the dudes otherwise without resulting to such desperado.

[Bonta Kun]

Originally Posted by Kismet-chan

But what Inori did wasn't really her fault, if we are to assume that it was Mana coming through her. She was obviously disturbed by the action after the fact, so if she had complete control over herself it's likely that she would not have done Arisa any harm whatsoever.

Doesn't really matter if Inori was at fault or not, fact is from Arisa's POV it is Inori's "fault".
I for one found all that stuff between Inori and Arias abit odd but can't really say I wanted Arisa to kill Inori as Inori is our best bet for Crazy Mana to return!(seriously we need her to return soon!)

Originally Posted by Kismet-chan

As for what Arisa did... I cannot say how I feel about it (I'm mostly angered/surprised by it). I'm more confused as to WHY she did it than anything. ALL that just because she found out that people die when their voids break? There's got to be more to it than that... Especially since she seemed fairly unmoved by Shu becoming the new school leader back when it happened. Basically, she had NO problems up until Argo came to retrieve her. It seems like she magically transformed into a desperate usurper slut over the course of 1-2 episodes.

The real why is hard to discern atm but her actions are somewhat understandable.
While yes to us viewers, her actions can be seen as inexcusable or unacceptable but should be understandable.
I think people are forgetting it's become "survival of the fittest" and if Arisa thought that "selling her body" would insure her surivival then thats understandable.
No probs with hating on her for doing what she done but it really shouldn't confuse people, same goes for the actions of the others, they used Shu just as they were used.
Call them hypocrites or whatever but they are doing what it takes to survive.

I don't accept what they did as the moral person I am but within this story it does fit(didn't think I would find myself defending GC but meh, like I said before anime can affect us in ways you never thought of)

[leon4281isback]

Still this anime's a mess. Golly is it just bad for the most part. And I'll admit I was off my hinges a bit about a person's action in a crisis. It may be understandable as any other human would do it, but still, that doesn't mean their actions is something that will NOT kick them in the a** WHEN IT DOES. Karma did came around for Shu, does that mean it doesn't come for the people who betrayed him. I'll say....HELL NO! You may be doing all it takes to survive, but don't think your safety is completely guaranteed after that s**t. Arisa may be crushing on Gai, but I don't think she has no idea that the Gai she sees is a bit different than how she remembers him. It's not gonna go good for her for too long. I don't hate her, but I'm not turning my back on her and anyone else actions. Sure what they did was human, but come on...their actions could come back to haunt them big time, they don't know what's going to happen until things really hit the fan. *calming down* I'm doing it again....

Anyway, Guilty Crown has five episodes to go....some people are counting things out too easily when we haven't even barely reached the climax yet.

Right now all I can say is that the GC spinoff could be interesting than this one...

[Azuma Denton]

People tends to forget that, it is them who made Shu into their leader (i would say force Shu into leader), while Shu himself already declined...

And partly Shu is to blame too... He can not distinct who is his loyal follower, and who is the opportunist...

Well like he said before, Shu is no leader material... And yesh, he lacks a great tactical advisor, like Shibungi to Gai...

[Makall]

Originally Posted by Azuma Denton

People tends to forget that, it is them who made Shu into their leader (i would say force Shu into leader), while Shu himself already declined...

And partly Shu is to blame too... He can not distinct who is his loyal follower, and who is the opportunist...

Well like he said before, Shu is no leader material... And yesh, he lacks a great tactical advisor, like Shibungi to Gai...

Exactly. The students forced the position of leader onto Shu and expected him to save all their asses. Clearly he was reluctant to do so but he did it anyways.

And it was Yahiro's idea to turn the school into some fascist state. Now all of a sudden he's like "Oh no Shu, don't do that or it'll make you look bad in front of the students!".

Arisa is just a stupid bitch that was bitter she was dethroned by Shu (When he didn't give a fuck about the position anyways). So she uses her body to throw a coup de'tat... for what? What did the students expect to do without Shu after getting out of the wall? GHQ can still hunt them down. Fucking morons.

Souta... why is this failure still alive? He even had the gall to push Shu down.

Argo. Arrogant prick. Can't spell Arrogant without Argo. This fool did nothing but acts all high and mighty in front of Shu. He even looks down on him for being "just Shu".

Tsugumi is another bitch. First she blames Shu for not risking his life and doing 90% of the work when Gai wanted to raid GHQ. Then she backstabs him.

Ayase is a bitch but at least she's loyal.