US Politics Thread (2021-24)

[OH&S]

Its really pathetic on the Democrats part that they keep scoring own goals for no reason.

They ran on a $15 minimum wage and $2000 stimulus checks.

The $15 minimum wage essentially died when the VP didn't override the parliamentarian and Biden gave no indication in pushing for it. The amendment was never going to pass (but at least the NO voters are now on record).

The $2000 checks became $1400+600 you already have = $2000 even after they continued with the campaign after the $600 checks were passed.

And the final nail in the coffin was limiting eligibility for those $1400 checks that even people who received checks under Trump wouldn't get them.

The sheer incompetence is amazing; its not looking good in 2022 and its their own damn fault (the House did their job though).

And yet there's only one real alternative in the Republicans which is somehow much worse.

[Key Board]

I still don't have my third stimulus

I would be more accepting of 1400 if I received it weeks ago

//

[The Green One]

Man if only there wasn't a strange group of people that didn't howl bloody murder and stonewall everything the Democrats do and call reasonable compromise as give them everything they demand at all times. It's not like the Democrats can just wave a magic wand and everything just neatly falls into place first try. Reality doesn't work that way. (Also the Democrats do it to the Republicans as well)

The sad truth is with everything hyper partisan and it's not just the politicians but the general public as well they're either too ignorant of how the real world works and just flat out do not care or would sooner see hell freeze over than compromise on anything or worse both.

Nothing meaningful gets done, everyone points fingers at everyone else. Hell I'm guilty of it too, I'm man enough to admit it.

[MCAL]

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/20...mpression=true

Always a good sign./sarcasm

[mangamuscle]

Originally Posted by GDB

Sad part is that people will look at it as 1 or 2 Dems didn't want to pass it, so they're all bad. But the 50 GQP members who also didn't want to pass it are fine because media told us it was the Dems' fault.

Sadly I don' think the media is relevant on this issue since the GOP as a knee jerk reaction will claim moral superiority and their base believes it each and every time. Do you remember who also claimed moral superiority even if the numbers (aka reality) said the opposite? Soviet communists! We all know where that trainwreck ended.

When the GOP electoral base starts to hold some accountability for every action their elected legislators do that does not benefit them, then we will see democracy working as it should.

Originally Posted by OH&S

The sheer incompetence is amazing; its not looking good in 2022 and its their own damn fault (the House did their job though).

Sadly it still seems we can't underestimate the dem's uncanny ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory -_- I doubt five decades ago dems were as inept, but it seems they were shellshocked after the reagan years.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by Key Board

I still don't have my third stimulus
I would be more accepting of 1400 if I received it weeks ago

"Third?" As far as I know there was only a $1,200 check in the spring and a $600 check in the fall. Glad to hear that I'm not the only person in America not to have received the latter.

It's time to stop niggling about this bill. Yes, it's not as extensive as the most left-wing members of the Democratic caucus would prefer, but it's an incredible achievement anyway. And I never did understand why the Senate wasted so much time on the minimum wage yesterday when we already knew it wasn't going to be included in the Senate bill.

There were simply not enough votes for a $15 minimum wage regardless of Sinema and Manchin, nor apparently enough votes to pass a $400/week unemployment payment. Maybe they'll get a minimum wage bill through, but it won't happen as long as the filibuster continues to exist. I'm a lot more concerned about the voting rights legislation myself.

[Magin]

Well, my understanding is that the Senate FINALLY passed the Covid bill, so by next week the $1400 checks will be going out. I guess it first has to go back to the House for finalization or such.

Meanwhile, in terms of other shit that doesn't pass... I'm thinking that it's time to get rid of the fillibuster as long as it remains in its current form. If it went back to its original form (yes, the bastards changed it for their convenience), then it would serve a sort of actual purpose.

[The Green One]

Hell will freeze over before politicians give up a tool to advance their personal agendas. Holding bills hostage is just too useful to pass up.

I'll be deeply surprised if getting rid of the filibuster happens. I doubt all Democrats will agree and Republicans will sure as hell say HELL NO.

[OH&S]

Are they perhaps able to get Manchin and Sinema to agree on a limited removal of the filibuster specifically for the big election security bill rather than in general?

[Guardian Enzo]

Biden proposed a $1.9 trillion relief bill. How much did he get? $1.9 trillion, despite a 50-50 split in the Senate and a tiny minority in the House. Do you really think Obama would have pulled that off?

But by all means, lets bitch about it not being perfect and do the Republicans' jobs for them. That's what so-called progressives seemingly do best.

[coded321]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Biden proposed a $1.9 trillion relief bill. How much did he get? $1.9 trillion, despite a 50-50 split in the Senate and a tiny minority in the House. Do you really think Obama would have pulled that off?

But by all means, lets bitch about it not being perfect and do the Republicans' jobs for them. That's what so-called progressives seemingly do best.

Yes, how dare progressives question the moderates' perfect logic behind reducing the promised 2000 dollar checks down to 1400 and reducing the eligibility for the check. I mean, sure, the promise of 2k checks is the thing that won democrats back the senate. Sure, reducing the checks' eligibility creates the optic that more people got more aid under Trump than biden. But yeah, what do progressives know? Like really, how dare they try to force biden and the democrats to completely fulfill the promises they made that won them back the white house and congress. If the democratic party wants to unnecessarily sabotage itself, who are progressives to stop it? They should just follow the Republicans' example and show absolute party loyalty, never questioning or criticizing the party's perfect wisdom, am I right?

/s

[Guardian Enzo]

Unlike the Republicans, the Democrats have never ideologically purged their party. That means there are still a range of views within the party, like it or not. And because of the way the system is rigged in favor of the GOP, Biden has to work with basically an evenly-divided congress, which gives power to those at the right of the party. It's reality.

Politics is the art of the possible. Tearing down our own for getting the best deal possible only helps make sure that it's the GOP setting the agenda next time. It's more fun to sit back and bitch about imperfection, but that's not how change happens. In legislative terms what Biden has already done in basically 100 days ranks among the most ambitious and accomplished records of any president in the post-war era. You'd never know it if you only listen to Fox News and Sandernistas of course.

[Guardian Enzo]

Ezra Klein:

American politics feels quieter with Joe Biden in the White House. The president’s Twitter feed hasn’t gone dark, but it’s gone dull. Biden doesn’t pick needless fights or insert himself into cultural conflicts. It’s easy to go days without hearing anything the president has said, unless you go looking.

But the relative quiet is deceptive: Policy is moving at a breakneck pace. The first weeks of the Biden administration were consumed by a flurry of far-reaching executive orders that reopened America to refugees, rejoined the Paris climate accords and killed the Keystone XL oil pipeline, to name just a few. Now the House has passed, and the Senate is considering, the $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan, a truly sweeping piece of legislation that includes more than a half-dozen policies — like a child tax credit expansion that could cut child poverty by 50 percent — that would be presidency-defining accomplishments on their own.

It goes on. The White House just sent Congress the most ambitious immigration reform bill in years. It midwifed a deal to get Merck to mobilize some of its factories to produce Johnson & Johnson’s vaccine, and now Biden is saying there should be enough of a supply for every American adult to get vaccinated by the end of May. Imagine! The administration is also working on an infrastructure package that, if early reports bear out, will be the most transformational piece of climate policy — and perhaps economic policy — in my lifetime. Biden is blitzing.

[coded321]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Unlike the Republicans, the Democrats have never ideologically purged their party. That means there are still a range of views within the party, like it or not. And because of the way the system is rigged in favor of the GOP, Biden has to work with basically an evenly-divided congress, which gives power to those at the right of the party. It's reality.

Politics is the art of the possible. Tearing down our own for getting the best deal possible only helps make sure that it's the GOP setting the agenda next time. It's more fun to sit back and bitch about imperfection, but that's not how change happens. In legislative terms what Biden has already done in basically 100 days ranks among the most ambitious and accomplished records of any president in the post-war era. You'd never know it if you only listen to Fox News and Sandernistas of course.

So what you're saying is, biden has no choice but to let the right wing democrats sabotage his agenda, and yet its somehow the progressives' fault for pointing that out and rightly criticize said democrats? Wow, apparently, demanding that biden do what he promised to do is too progressive now. But sure, since I'm daring to criticize biden, that must mean I'm somehow both a MAGA Trumper and a radical socialist bernie bro, right?

And you may not believe me, but there's plenty of stuff that biden has done that I praise and l love him for doing. At the same time, he's made decisions where I have to ask, "WTF is he thinking?" And frankly speaking, Trump set the bar so low, anything biden does will be a massive accomplishment in comparison. Being better than Trump is not good enough. The election should have been a bloodbath for Republicans. Instead they're setup for potentially retaking the federal government in 4 years. Biden's done some great stuff so far, but he must do more.

[DemonOfWrath]

What you're not realising is Joe Manchin, as an example, has all of the leverage. He's not up for re-election for four years, and even then he's in West Virginia. What are the progressives going to threaten him with if he says no I don't want this?

Primary him? Yeah great own goal there, good luck finding someone else who can win that seat. As much as you don't like him, he at least means it's Schumer in control of the agenda instead of McConnell.

Get vote 50 from elsewhere? From which republican? Even the amenable ones voted no to the final product.

That's the world of a 50/50 senate. Any one democrat senator can shut something down entirely. And the centrist democrats in heavily right-wing states have a lot more room to play hard ball because the choice is basically them or a republican (see Montana last year for an example for how hard it is to win/keep those few seats). The other democrats can potentially be replaced by other democrats, so have more to lose.

So, yeah, there isn't actually much choice with the current senate composition. You compromise and keep those centrist senators happy or you get nothing. Unless you can come up with something that would make them back down.

[coded321]

^these self sabotaging, pointless compromises are what got us Trump in the first place. And now, with the majority in the Senate, democrats can no longer point the finger and blame Republicans anymore. The situation now is far worse politically because all the blame will fall on the democrats, and democrat voters will become apathetic once again.

And since Manchin isn't up for relection nor planning to, WTF is he doing?! Progressives aren't demanding he shove M4A or Defund the Police into the coronavirus package, the only demand being that he let the bill be passed according to what Biden had promised. But no, apparently helping biden keep his campaign promises is too progressive for Manchin.

[DemonOfWrath]

Again, that doesn't answer the question of what would make him back down. He basically said "if you want my vote, change it in this way". Because it's 50/50 he can do that and make things bend to what he wants. Heck if he's not even considering re-election then there's even less you can use to try and convince him to back down from what he believes is best.

If he walks away, as much as you could say it's his fault, it can also be said it's your fault for not budging on ideological purity. You think voters are going to sympathise if you go back to them next year and say "we got nothing done for 2 years because Manchin wouldn't cave in when we refused to compromise with him, sorry"?

You can at least go back and say "ok, we got THIS when it was 50/50 and we were compromising with Manchin, give us a few more senators and we'll be able to get even more done!" the way it's turned out.

Heck, getting it through at 50/50 isn't exactly unimpressive either, other presidents have had way way more trouble getting things through with actual senate majorities. Remember how the republican's attempt to remove the ACA went a few years ago?

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by DemonOfWrath

Again, that doesn't answer the question of what would make him back down. He basically said "if you want my vote, change it in this way". Because it's 50/50 he can do that and make things bend to what he wants. Heck if he's not even considering re-election then there's even less you can use to try and convince him to back down from what he believes is best.

If he walks away, as much as you could say it's his fault, it can also be said it's your fault for not budging on ideological purity. You think voters are going to sympathise if you go back to them next year and say "we got nothing done for 2 years because Manchin wouldn't cave in when we refused to compromise with him, sorry"?

What you describe is basically Sanders' approach in the Senate. That explains why he's one of the least productive Senators in the modern history of the body in terms of legislation - he's gotten almost nothing done in all the years he's been there because he's more worried about explaining to everyone how much better he is than they are.

Contrast that with Ted Kennedy, both one of the most liberal Senators of the modern era and probably the single-most productive modern Senator in terms of legislation. He cultivated personal relationships with the other side, figured out which ones he might pick off on any given vote, and worked to figure out how to make it happen.

[ganbaru]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

What you describe is basically Sanders' approach in the Senate. That explains why he's one of the least productive Senators in the modern history of the body in terms of legislation - he's gotten almost nothing done in all the years he's been there because he's more worried about explaining to everyone how much better he is than they are.

Isn't Sander know as the ''amendment king'', getting thing done via amendment. Given is status as independent it might be the best way to get the vote for what he want.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by ganbaru

Isn't Sander know as the ''amendment king'', getting thing done via amendment. Given is status as independent it might be the best way to get the vote for what he want.

That nickname came from a 12-year period (95-07) where he ran up a number of largely meaningless amendments via roll-call votes (and no bills).