Romance in Code Geass (Take 2)

[greyhawk]

Spoiler for For jb23:

Originally Posted by jb23

By your logic To Heart would also not be a soap opera if it was a live-action serial, but despite that, it was open ended, was based around romance, and was a slice of life anime.

Speak for yourself I suppose. Unlike you, I never gave a "thorough" definition to avoid such generalization(well I already know how incompetent at reading you are) . I was just bashing yours, saying it was stupid and lacking while pointing out some of the qualities that differentiate it from TV drama series. But you're trying to classify a show by those qualities alone. Once again, you fail to understand that logical implication and equivalence are different.
And what happened to YOUR little definition? I thought the whole point was to discuss its validity. (Yeah can you read now?)
Also, I'm starting to question this word "romance", you keep insisting that I ever said something about romance alone defining a soap opera. Guess you're that absent-minded? Ah I get it, it's because you cannot read properly.

Originally Posted by jb23

Warcraft eh? I didn't know anyone still played that garbage

It's easy. Noobs hate the game cos they fail at it (= people hate Microsoft because they didn't get accepted), and in your case, I'm 100% sure. Just like those who fail at SC, CS, FIFA, DoA 4 or any game included in an international esport championship. They instead resort to playing games that require far less skill where they can actually rape people of their kind just to think good about themselves.

Originally Posted by jb23

One final note, if you want someone to take you seriously and possibly read what you write, drop the "dudes" and "chill outs." I had read what you wrote before this and I thought you were incompetent, but after talking directly to you, now I know it.

I've used the former word a few times. While the latter, you've actually used it more than I have, isn't it a great accomplishment? Anyway it's such a flimsy well thought-out excuse for your reading incapacity. Thank God I now know what type of creature I'm dealing with.

Originally Posted by jb23

Have fun picking this apart now. By replying you're admitting that in the middle of the day you have nothing better to do except go line by line trying to disgrace me. That was a good 5 minute break after lunch and before a nice game of basketball.

Persecution complex. Just like our good old John Thompson.
I've had my fair share of social life. Go enjoy yours now, don't reply again. I had a lot of fun. And remember to get some treatment, too.

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday

Meh, Suzaku and Kallen are the most important characters in that group shot. I know there are others in there that are considered very important, but they are the two most important ones. Then you move to Schneizal and Lelouch and C.C.. Meh, maybe we'll get info in the future on what those images are supposed to mean like last time.

Really, I just thought it meant they were the most formidable ace pilots of both sides, and the ones that know about Lelouch's Geass. Badass Schneizel is most likely going to become the next Emperor, and Lelouch's worst enemy. Yeah the ultimate Avalon along with his almighty air fleet is approaching. Who knows he may get to pilot the Arthur or sth, after all we've all seen how strong the Gawain is.

[Sol Falling]

'k, this might be the subs again but the line I saw was "Crap, this feels like a chance". Given Shirley's facial expression I'd pretty much say she was scolding herself for having her mind in the gutter rather than being eager to take advantage of the situation. Her next line was "Hey, Lelou, wouldn't you-" which is in line with the request for Viletta. Since Shirley never said the word 'dance' once in the episode and I didn't see her anywhere in that scene later on, it doesn't seem particularly likely to me.

hmm, well, on the other hand, I've just gone and listened to that scene again, and it seems like Shirley's second line was "Ne, Ruru, watashi to-". Based on my very limited Japanese, "watashi to" would mean "me and", I assume? I guess that might imply an invitation to dance, but it's still a bit of a jump. I dunno, I guess I could see it if it were confirmed, but where did this idea come from in the first place?

[KrimzonStriker]

I don't know, it just seems very Shirley like, plus it came just when Kallen interrupted so it adds logical irony to the situation that she got cut off just when she was about to get her 'chance'

[Sol Falling]

:P Why don't you expand on what you mean by Shirley-like? Though I don't think I'll like your answer...Shirley is perfectly able to interact with Lelouch on a non-romantic basis and live her own life doing her own thing. People treating her like some Lelouch-obsessed stalker girl is really irritating to me, as the focus placed on her crush within the show is more a narrative emphasis reflecting her role in the story than a real reflection of who she is.

[Stretch5920]

The scene was a just a set up for her to fight and chase Kallen in the suit for laughs. I don't think there was meant to be any meaning there.

[Thar]

Originally Posted by jb23

There's really only two things going for Kallen. She still hasn't come to her senses that Zero and Lulu are the one

She already starts to see that it is indeed one person. Take what she said to him at the beginning of their encounter in Shinjuku ("This is the place where Zero... Where you've started everything" or sth with that meaning).

[jb23]

Spoiler for Guess you are one of those few people that have nothing better to do but spend 15 minutes for each post on a forum grey.:

I replied. I don't know why you type so much and spend so much time picking apart each statement. No one reads it. Oh, I do use "dude" and "chill out" a lot, but only while quoting you. I have not once tried to use "dude" in a conversation. Now you added "cos." While I still think it takes away from any attempt at seeming intellectual you have, it is better than "cuz" and all it's other various forms. That's about all I read. Continue reading each line and picking it apart.

By the way, you have brought up romance before but I don't feel like skimming through the last few pages to quote you. Do it yourself. You're the one that seems to have the problem continuing this conversation so why not end it? You've stated numerous times that you were tired of this and once that you wouldn't post anymore, but yet, here you are. Quit contradicting your words with your actions.

Shirely definitely isn't any worse than Orihime from Bleach. Both girls seem to be either loved or hated though.

[jb23]

Originally Posted by Thar

She already starts to see that it is indeed one person. Take what she said to him at the beginning of their encounter in Shinjuku ("This is the place where Zero... Where you've started everything" or sth with that meaning).

Argh. Just posted. Oh well. She is starting to realize that Lulu is Zero, but it's just starting. That's the thing going for Kallen. She still hasn't completely come to terms with it and fully accepted it.

[Daito-kun]

Originally Posted by jb23

Shirely definitely isn't any worse than Orihime from Bleach. Both girls seem to be either loved or hated though.

Nope, Shirly is a way Better, than Orihime! At least she was in first season) The fact that she was reseted is worring me, but I hope she will improve)
And, grey and jb23, if you wish to show off, please, do it somevere else. I Have interest in reading good discussion, and not your's abuses to each other.

As about Karen ( I don't really sure - Karen? Karen?) I think she still not accepted the fact, that Lulu an Zero are the same, because, as i see, If she was, she would accept Lulu's ask to comfort him in ep 7.No, Zero's ask to comfort him))) The fact that she slapped him and run away means that she is not ready for it))))
But I sure liked the fact that Lulu wanted to run after her( stupid Rolo interrupted)

[KrimzonStriker]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

:P Why don't you expand on what you mean by Shirley-like? Though I don't think I'll like your answer...Shirley is perfectly able to interact with Lelouch on a non-romantic basis and live her own life doing her own thing. People treating her like some Lelouch-obsessed stalker girl is really irritating to me, as the focus placed on her crush within the show is more a narrative emphasis reflecting her role in the story than a real reflection of who she is.

The tickets, the wine bit in Turn 3 when she decided it was a 'date' while Lelouch certainly did not, the fact that she was acting exactly like a school-girl with a crush right before she was about to talk to him... and the Turn 5 storyboard was posted up a while back which gave a lot of side-notes on how the scene was written to be like and one of the statements or summaries was posted on who was dancing and who was not and it said that Shirley tried to ask Lelouch about it but was 'cut off' by someone. A lot of us thought it was Suzaku beforehand because of the roof scene written in later but it ended being Kallen

Oh, and did you know? One of those side-notes about where C.C was waiting just inside the building while Lelouch went to confront the Order was written "make it look like they have a getaway route" or something like that, basically meaning that if things hadn't gone well with the Order Lelouch and C.C were prepared to run for the hills. The whole thing was pretty interesting

[Var]

Originally Posted by Daito-kun

As about Karen ( I don't really sure - Karen? Karen?) I think she still not accepted the fact, that Lulu an Zero are the same, because, as i see, If she was, she would accept Lulu's ask to comfort him in ep 7.No, Zero's ask to comfort him))) The fact that she slapped him and run away means that she is not ready for it))))
But I sure liked the fact that Lulu wanted to run after her( stupid Rolo interrupted)

To some degree I think she has come to accept it; I mean she clearly tells Lelouch to act the part of Zero, not to be Zero. So she's begun, at the very least, to seperate person from idea.

No. No one who cares for someone would accept something like that, it would also compromise Kallen's character if she had. The fact that she slapped him means that while she may want it, quivering lips and looking back, she doesn't want it like that.

I'll agree on Lulu wanting to run after her though.

[Daito-kun]

Originally Posted by Var

.

No. No one who cares for someone would accept something like that, it would also compromise Kallen's character if she had. The fact that she slapped him means that while she may want it, quivering lips and looking back, she doesn't want it like that.

must admit, you right )

To some degree I think she has come to accept it; I mean she clearly tells Lelouch to act the part of Zero, not to be Zero. So she's begun, at the very least, to seperate person from idea

Didn't get it. Do you mind to explain it again?

[Var]

Originally Posted by Daito-kun

Didn't get it. Do you mind to explain it again?

What I meant is that, after she slapped him, she yelled at him to play the 'part of Zero', she objectivied Zero as an idea not a person. That's the begining parts of seperating a person from an idea. Later in the episode, we see her holding the Zero mask, which is a more physically shown metaphore for the idea that Zero is an idea and that Kallen is making the realization of it, all be it slowly. During the scene, C2 tells her about the burden and Kallen then offers to help take up the mask if she has too.

[Daito-kun]

Originally Posted by Var

What I meant is that, after she slapped him, she yelled at him to play the 'part of Zero', she objectivied Zero as an idea not a person. That's the begining parts of seperating a person from an idea. Later in the episode, we see her holding the Zero mask, which is a more physically shown metaphore for the idea that Zero is an idea and that Kallen is making the realization of it, all be it slowly. During the scene, C2 tells her about the burden and Kallen then offers to help take up the mask if she has too.

Thanks, now i get it) But there's one thing that amuse me - if i'm right, in first season Karen despised Lulu but admired Zero. Now, if she admits, that Zero is an idea, she must change her opinion about Lulu, and this would be a big change to her attitude and personalyty

[Dann of Thursday]

Originally Posted by jb23

Yep. I was curious about the first kiss too but I didn't really want to go in depth with it because it's already been heavily debated by both sides. Personally I think the whole "it was a goodbye kiss" is a load of crap and I'm actually leaning more towards Kallen at the moment. The second kiss though, I know something had to be done to break the seal, but you'd think there'd be SO many more ways. If I were to stretch it (this will be shot down) I could always say that the kiss brought him back because of the impact the first one had on him and it helped remind him of the past seeing as how those two had already made physical contact.

I don't buy the goodbye kiss thing either. I think it simply factored in with allowing her to bring him back in R2. I think the second one may have been needed because that was how the first one was done. Meh, Lelouch didn't care either way and still regards her very little.

I've always been somewhat annoyed that after they have a nice moment, they always go back to the way things were with only C.C. seeming to have any memory of what happened and even that fades. It's like Lelouch completely forgets about the whole thing. Doesn't surprise me though I guess and it's probably another indication since having him be concerned for her and such could mess with what they have going with the plot or something.

Originally Posted by greyhawk

Really, I just thought it meant they were the most formidable ace pilots of both sides, and the ones that know about Lelouch's Geass. Badass Schneizel is most likely going to become the next Emperor, and Lelouch's worst enemy. Yeah the ultimate Avalon along with his almighty air fleet is approaching. Who knows he may get to pilot the Arthur or sth, after all we've all seen how strong the Gawain is.

Well, they technically are the most important characters out of that entire group so I assumed that was why they are at the front.

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

The tickets, the wine bit in Turn 3 when she decided it was a 'date' while Lelouch certainly did not, the fact that she was acting exactly like a school-girl with a crush right before she was about to talk to him... and the Turn 5 storyboard was posted up a while back which gave a lot of side-notes on how the scene was written to be like and one of the statements or summaries was posted on who was dancing and who was not and it said that Shirley tried to ask Lelouch about it but was 'cut off' by someone. A lot of us thought it was Suzaku beforehand because of the roof scene written in later but it ended being Kallen

Oh, and did you know? One of those side-notes about where C.C was waiting just inside the building while Lelouch went to confront the Order was written "make it look like they have a getaway route" or something like that, basically meaning that if things hadn't gone well with the Order Lelouch and C.C were prepared to run for the hills. The whole thing was pretty interesting

The fact that it was Kallen could potentially be symbolism I suppose for how she'll become his LI over the other girls. They did it in 7 when she was the one who went after Lelouch instead of C.C..

I think it was something about her taking him and them running away. It's only interesting if you are a LelouchXC.C. fan. Really, it only means they'd leave and set up shop somewhere else.


In regards to why I never really liked Lelouch and Kallen being together (this is probably pointless because all the Kallen fans are going to disagree with me and say I'm wrong) is for a few reasons. I don't really think the intelligence things factors in much like someone else thought, but rather that they're presonalities don't seem to mesh well. Of course, one could always argue that this is a good thing since it helps Lelouch or something, but I never thought that was the case. They also don't seem to really be on equal ground with things with Kallen sort of placing herself in the position of always being his subordinate, if one who is more in the know than the others. I've also always wondered if she would even care for him in the end if he wasn't Zero anymore.

There's more, but I'm having trouble getting it into words. Everyone's going to disagree with me anyway. The show's proving that it doesn't think the same anyway since they are pushing for her.

[Var]

Originally Posted by Daito-kun

Thanks, now i get it) But there's one thing that amuse me - if i'm right, in first season Karen despised Lulu but admired Zero. Now, if she admits, that Zero is an idea, she must change her opinion about Lulu, and this would be a big change to her attitude and personalyty

Well, she wanted the kiss. And she's had some developments about her emotions and thoughts on Lelouch. So it wouldn't really be all that big of a change if she finally figured out who the real Lelouch is, which I think she is doing progressively.

[Daito-kun]

Originally Posted by Var

Well, she wanted the kiss. And she's had some developments about her emotions and thoughts on Lelouch. So it wouldn't really be all that big of a change if she finally figured out who the real Lelouch is, which I think she is doing progressively.

С.С. knows who the real Lelouch is, and accpct it. Will Karen able to accept that coldblooded player with human lives and orgive him?

[Dann of Thursday]

Because she's the LI, yes.

C.C. hasn't been an option for a long time it seems. She said herself at one point that she isn't even in Lelouch's consideration. And all that teasing she does with Kallen pretty much begs for Kallen to become Lelouch's LI and show up C.C.. C.C. might even want Kallen to have him.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by Daito-kun

С.С. knows who the real Lelouch is, and accpct it. Will Karen able to accept that coldblooded player with human lives and orgive him?

First, Lulu's blood isn't cold. Far from it. Britannia would have been destroyed months ago otherwise.

Second, Kallen's not so naive as to think people don't die in the process of doing that you have to do. She's been doing this far longer than Lulu did.

[Dann of Thursday]

Yeah, and like Lelouch, she doesn't enjoy killing. She actually does care.