AnimeSuki Forums

cyth · 2008-04-13, 19:48

Yesterday, one of my friends linked me to a blog post whose author criticized the well-known news site AnimeNewsNetwork.com with a personal assessment that the site lacks professionalism in their columns and featured articles. But the interesting thing he pointed out was ANN's use of fansubs for their recent Spring Anime Preview Guide. This got me thinking about the dynamics of web traffic. Tofusensei, the fansubber who recently got interviewed on ANN for his take on the fansubbing community, told us his interview was seen by "about a million people," according to ANN's Zac Bertschy. This suggests that featured articles like his and the Spring Anime Preview Guide receive tons of web traffic that may equal substantial advertising revenue. Alexa, which uses a sample group of several million Internet users, ranks AnimeNewsNetwork.com at #776. To draw a comparison, Alexa ranks AnimeSuki.com at #1415 and TokyoTosho.com at #1520.

Recently, ANN was responsible for the wide-spread condemnation of Crunchyroll.com, a video site that has built its user base by offering illegal copies of anime and other Asian programming for streaming and download. On another note, the ethics behind ANN writing seasonal anime preview guides based on illegal fansubs simply baffle me from time to time, since not only are they condemning Crunchyroll and the likes for making money from streaming fansubs, some of their editors have condemned fansubbers for their illegal operations and "immoral" approaches to the anime industry. Yet they are forgetting the fact that many fansubbers operate at a loss, in other words, fansubbers don't make a dime from doing their selfless and often underappreciated task, while they make indirect profit from articles that wouldn't exist without illegal anime distribution. If their traffic is as high as these random projections demonstrate, one has to wonder about the hypocrisy and immorality on their part when they're one of the few making actual profit off fansubs.

What I'm interested in is why they haven't released any official statement regarding the company's take on fansubs in nearly 10 years of its existence. Their editors are allowed to express their own opinion about the influential role of illegal anime distribution, but their opinions do not reflect their employer's stance in any way. Is this what their editors like to label as pussyfooting?

Kamui4356 · 2008-04-13, 20:30

I wouldn't go quite as far in my criticism of ANN, but I do agree that they can be unprofessional at times. Then there was that whole thing about moe and lolicon a while back... I can't call myself a fan of the site.

Oh do you have the link to this blog entry?

Astrana · 2008-04-13, 20:32

I visit ANN once a while just for info on some shows.
I usually watches everything when they come out then decide which ones to follow or not.
Overall ANN has a nice data base on shows.

KholdStare · 2008-04-13, 20:40

They're easily the best-looking website for anime information to me. Anidb just doesn't look right and Wikipedia/MAL doesn't have everything. I just think it's user-friendly.

Happy_Chip · 2008-04-13, 20:50

I do browse their site from time to time. I don't mind reading the R1 DVD reviews, but yes they do tend to have a bit of an attitude.

They are a site that caters to R1 anime reviews and anime broadcasts on N. American TV. So their publication is funded by R1 advertising dollars and that cannot help but influence or even dictate their content (if you think otherwise, then you're naive, my friend... business is business). And if the $ itself doesn't influence them, then the very business they are in represents a frame of mind.

And what's that frame of mind? Why, R1 DVDs = good!!, R1 distributors pay advertising dollars!! fansubs of unreleased anime = bad!! fansubbers don't pay advertising dollars!!

As such they've slammed fansubs quite a bit, mocking them as poor translations, the karaoke in the opening/closing as silly, anime music videos as dumb, etc.

(Once I emailed them that I've seen fabsubs that did a far better job at explaining the nuances of the dialog, cultural references, parody references etc. than the licensed release did.)

I think this doctrine alienated their readership: For the last few months they eased up a bit and tried to be more diplomatic, but even so it's clear what they really think ...

The 'Hey Answerman!' column can be irritating too, but I've usually avoided it. Recently they toned down their snarkiness and abuse, so that's helped.

I think it's an OK website if you're into R1 DVD information - so long as you understand their prejudices and try to overlook them.

Regarding the reviews of current unlicensed Japanese anime presently being broadcast - again, they're trying to buoy their diminishing readership by trying to be relevant.

The question was asked in the OP: "What I'm interested in is why they haven't released any official statement regarding the company's take on fansubs in nearly 10 years of its existence. Their editors are allowed to express their own opinion about the influential role of illegal anime distribution, but their opinions do not reflect their employer's stance in any way. Is this what their editors like to label as pussyfooting?"

Like I indicated, they want to satisfy their advertisers without alienating their readership - and try to manipulate their readership into the direction the advertisers want , which is to avoid fansubs, youtube anime and other ways of getting anime media that don't involve R1 DVD distributors or N. American TV networks.

Kamui4356 · 2008-04-13, 21:04

For r1 information www.animeondvd.com is a lot better. Their reviews tend to be more professional and less like fanboy rants. It's more a review site than a news site, but they do ahve news as well and seem to have a better grasp on the industry.

Rising Star · 2008-04-13, 22:29

I have no complaints about ANN.
As far as I'm concerned they're just another of the many good sources for information for our good anime otaku-alliance's sake.
Though I must say, I don't go on their site very often, I'll be honest there.

Z3120 · 2008-04-14, 00:27

I only go there for their database. If it weren't for that, I really don't bother going there at all.

solomon · 2008-04-14, 05:28

I have been a regular vistor to the site for at least 4 years now, it's a daily habit.

I like their reviews as well, I think they're better then mere fanboy rants. They also provide a good nexus for anime news so I don't have to rely on forums or crappy babelfish translation of Japanese sites like moonphase.

Plus (oh you guys are gonna hate me) I like reading the answerman column cause well I see eye to eye with him on some stuff editorially

Slice of Life · 2008-04-14, 07:20

ANN is not an impartial news source and one should keep that in mind. Reading the organ of the meat producing industry might be useful to find the nearest butcher's shop but don't bother looking into their articles on vegetarianism (except for a good laugh).

They're too US-centered to be of interest for me. Their ad-ladden pages look too "loud" for my tastes. For databases my first stop is always anidb.net. ANN is then just one click away anyway.

But my real problem with them is that their forum regulars seem to be much less well informed and very closed-minded compared to animesuki. Any actually anime related discussions are insignificant compared to what you get here. Macross Frontier, nine pages?

EDIT: Oh, and don't they always use fansubs for their season previews?

cyth · 2008-04-14, 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

EDIT: Oh, and don't they always use fansubs for their season previews?

They do, I just wanted to point out the irony, seeing one of the bigger critics of illegal digital anime distribution making indirect profit off it. But yes, they are trying to appeal more to contemporary anime watchers now, because the casual anime fanbase has moved online to streaming video sites. This might be a sign that their Protoculture Addicts magazine may soon come to an end due to the prevailing convenience of Internet publications.

oompa loompa · 2008-04-14, 07:56

i only use it for its huge database.. more than anything, ive found that its the only site whose ratings somewhat reflect the quality of shows ( for me atleast - im not saying the same for everyone)

2H-Dragon · 2008-04-14, 08:14

Don't use it, don't care. o_O Anidb was always more convient for me since. I pick up intrest in series on animesuki and Anidb gives me the subbers and a ratings from what fans think. I prefer what fans think over what single person thinks anyhow. Since you don't watch anime objectively. The reviews on Anidb aren't bad. It's pretty obvious in the word usage when someone is a retard or not.

Blaat · 2008-04-14, 10:31

I absolutely love their anime database and that's it. I don't read the news, I definitely don't read their reviews nor their columns. So I can't comment on that.

Happy_Chip · 2008-04-14, 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toua

They do, I just wanted to point out the irony, seeing one of the bigger critics of illegal digital anime distribution making indirect profit off it.

While I don't want to accuse ANN of hypocrisy, I have a very hard time believing that their staff view anime exclusively on R1 DVD and never download fabsubs, in the privacy of their homes or even as part of their professional activities (case in point mentioned above). The denouncing of fansubs is the 'party line' so to speak.

Another comment, one part of ANN that I do like is the 'buried treasure/buried garbage' column. And yes, many of these movies/TV shows they focus on are indeed only available on fansub, either because they were never released or they're long out of print.

And they admit it...

Liddo-kun · 2008-04-14, 12:01

ANN's series database is very good, one of the best.
I don't read ANN's reviews though, so can't comment on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

I wouldn't go quite as far in my criticism of ANN, but I do agree that they can be unprofessional at times. Then there was that whole thing about moe and lolicon a while back... I can't call myself a fan of the site.

Do you mean this thread on ANN?
I think it got so out of hand a mod shut the thread down.

KholdStare · 2008-04-14, 12:41

Ah, I just realized that the main argument here is not about the ANN database, but the reviews they have. Personally, I haven't looked at them, so I don't care. What I do know is that they have a great database, so whatever is bad about them, don't forget that it's not all of ANN.

Xellos-_^ · 2008-04-14, 13:16

ANN was originally a fan site back in the late 1990s. I remember it was almost like yesterday when i first saw thier link on anipike. While i know they semi-legit now i still see them as that fansite form way back. So a littel unprofessionalism isn't a bother to me.

Kamui4356 · 2008-04-14, 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

Do you mean this thread on ANN?
I think it got so out of hand a mod shut the thread down.

That's one of them. There were a few others as well with pretty much the same results. It seemed like Zac kept mentioning stull like that in his answerman column just to flamebait and get those threads started. Though that was 2 years ago. I thought it was more like last year.

DragoonKain3 · 2008-04-14, 16:35

For me, ANN will always and only ever will be a database for anime. And the one I use just to:
a) see the upcoming boxset releases in R1 and
b) see the VAs involved in a show.

Overall, I'd rather use AniDB as a database (much easier to use and more importantly, MUCH less 'clatter'), and as for reviews/editorials, I don't really care for them as I already watch enough anime to form my own opinion of it.

2008-04-13, 19:48	Link #1
cyth Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Age: 38	What's your take on AnimeNewsNetwork? Yesterday, one of my friends linked me to a blog post whose author criticized the well-known news site AnimeNewsNetwork.com with a personal assessment that the site lacks professionalism in their columns and featured articles. But the interesting thing he pointed out was ANN's use of fansubs for their recent Spring Anime Preview Guide. This got me thinking about the dynamics of web traffic. Tofusensei, the fansubber who recently got interviewed on ANN for his take on the fansubbing community, told us his interview was seen by "about a million people," according to ANN's Zac Bertschy. This suggests that featured articles like his and the Spring Anime Preview Guide receive tons of web traffic that may equal substantial advertising revenue. Alexa, which uses a sample group of several million Internet users, ranks AnimeNewsNetwork.com at #776. To draw a comparison, Alexa ranks AnimeSuki.com at #1415 and TokyoTosho.com at #1520. Recently, ANN was responsible for the wide-spread condemnation of Crunchyroll.com, a video site that has built its user base by offering illegal copies of anime and other Asian programming for streaming and download. On another note, the ethics behind ANN writing seasonal anime preview guides based on illegal fansubs simply baffle me from time to time, since not only are they condemning Crunchyroll and the likes for making money from streaming fansubs, some of their editors have condemned fansubbers for their illegal operations and "immoral" approaches to the anime industry. Yet they are forgetting the fact that many fansubbers operate at a loss, in other words, fansubbers don't make a dime from doing their selfless and often underappreciated task, while they make indirect profit from articles that wouldn't exist without illegal anime distribution. If their traffic is as high as these random projections demonstrate, one has to wonder about the hypocrisy and immorality on their part when they're one of the few making actual profit off fansubs. What I'm interested in is why they haven't released any official statement regarding the company's take on fansubs in nearly 10 years of its existence. Their editors are allowed to express their own opinion about the influential role of illegal anime distribution, but their opinions do not reflect their employer's stance in any way. Is this what their editors like to label as pussyfooting?

2008-04-13, 20:30	Link #2
Kamui4356 Aria Company Join Date: Nov 2003	I wouldn't go quite as far in my criticism of ANN, but I do agree that they can be unprofessional at times. Then there was that whole thing about moe and lolicon a while back... I can't call myself a fan of the site. Oh do you have the link to this blog entry? __________________

2008-04-13, 20:40	Link #4
KholdStare ISML Technical Staff Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Age: 35	They're easily the best-looking website for anime information to me. Anidb just doesn't look right and Wikipedia/MAL doesn't have everything. I just think it's user-friendly. __________________ Kholdy's MAL, ISML Chat, Saimoe Blog, Saimoe Wiki

2008-04-13, 20:50	Link #5
Happy_Chip Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004	what do I think? I do browse their site from time to time. I don't mind reading the R1 DVD reviews, but yes they do tend to have a bit of an attitude. They are a site that caters to R1 anime reviews and anime broadcasts on N. American TV. So their publication is funded by R1 advertising dollars and that cannot help but influence or even dictate their content (if you think otherwise, then you're naive, my friend... business is business). And if the $ itself doesn't influence them, then the very business they are in represents a frame of mind. And what's that frame of mind? Why, R1 DVDs = good!!, R1 distributors pay advertising dollars!! fansubs of unreleased anime = bad!! fansubbers don't pay advertising dollars!! As such they've slammed fansubs quite a bit, mocking them as poor translations, the karaoke in the opening/closing as silly, anime music videos as dumb, etc. (Once I emailed them that I've seen fabsubs that did a far better job at explaining the nuances of the dialog, cultural references, parody references etc. than the licensed release did.) I think this doctrine alienated their readership: For the last few months they eased up a bit and tried to be more diplomatic, but even so it's clear what they really think ... The 'Hey Answerman!' column can be irritating too, but I've usually avoided it. Recently they toned down their snarkiness and abuse, so that's helped. I think it's an OK website if you're into R1 DVD information - so long as you understand their prejudices and try to overlook them. Regarding the reviews of current unlicensed Japanese anime presently being broadcast - again, they're trying to buoy their diminishing readership by trying to be relevant. The question was asked in the OP: "What I'm interested in is why they haven't released any official statement regarding the company's take on fansubs in nearly 10 years of its existence. Their editors are allowed to express their own opinion about the influential role of illegal anime distribution, but their opinions do not reflect their employer's stance in any way. Is this what their editors like to label as pussyfooting?" Like I indicated, they want to satisfy their advertisers without alienating their readership - and try to manipulate their readership into the direction the advertisers want , which is to avoid fansubs, youtube anime and other ways of getting anime media that don't involve R1 DVD distributors or N. American TV networks. Last edited by Happy_Chip; 2008-04-13 at 21:00. Reason: edit

2008-04-13, 21:04	Link #6
Kamui4356 Aria Company Join Date: Nov 2003	For r1 information www.animeondvd.com is a lot better. Their reviews tend to be more professional and less like fanboy rants. It's more a review site than a news site, but they do ahve news as well and seem to have a better grasp on the industry. __________________

2008-04-13, 20:32	Link #3
Astrana MMmmmm Bacon~~~ Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: OPAI Age: 39	I visit ANN once a while just for info on some shows. I usually watches everything when they come out then decide which ones to follow or not. Overall ANN has a nice data base on shows.

2008-04-13, 22:29	Link #7
Rising Star Timotei Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: UK	I have no complaints about ANN. As far as I'm concerned they're just another of the many good sources for information for our good anime otaku-alliance's sake. Though I must say, I don't go on their site very often, I'll be honest there.

2008-04-14, 00:27	Link #8
Z3120 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008	I only go there for their database. If it weren't for that, I really don't bother going there at all.

2008-04-14, 05:28	Link #9
solomon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Suburban DC	I have been a regular vistor to the site for at least 4 years now, it's a daily habit. I like their reviews as well, I think they're better then mere fanboy rants. They also provide a good nexus for anime news so I don't have to rely on forums or crappy babelfish translation of Japanese sites like moonphase. Plus (oh you guys are gonna hate me) I like reading the answerman column cause well I see eye to eye with him on some stuff editorially

2008-04-14, 07:20	Link #10
Slice of Life eyewitness Join Date: Jan 2007	ANN is not an impartial news source and one should keep that in mind. Reading the organ of the meat producing industry might be useful to find the nearest butcher's shop but don't bother looking into their articles on vegetarianism (except for a good laugh). They're too US-centered to be of interest for me. Their ad-ladden pages look too "loud" for my tastes. For databases my first stop is always anidb.net. ANN is then just one click away anyway. But my real problem with them is that their forum regulars seem to be much less well informed and very closed-minded compared to animesuki. Any actually anime related discussions are insignificant compared to what you get here. Macross Frontier, nine pages? EDIT: Oh, and don't they always use fansubs for their season previews? __________________ - Any ideas how to fill this space?

2008-04-14, 07:56	Link #12
oompa loompa Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: 28° 37', North ; 77° 13', East Age: 33	i only use it for its huge database.. more than anything, ive found that its the only site whose ratings somewhat reflect the quality of shows ( for me atleast - im not saying the same for everyone)

2008-04-14, 08:14	Link #13
2H-Dragon Silent Warrior Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Netherlands Age: 38	Don't use it, don't care. o_O Anidb was always more convient for me since. I pick up intrest in series on animesuki and Anidb gives me the subbers and a ratings from what fans think. I prefer what fans think over what single person thinks anyhow. Since you don't watch anime objectively. The reviews on Anidb aren't bad. It's pretty obvious in the word usage when someone is a retard or not.

2008-04-14, 10:31	Link #14
Blaat Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2004	I absolutely love their anime database and that's it. I don't read the news, I definitely don't read their reviews nor their columns. So I can't comment on that.

2008-04-14, 12:41	Link #17
KholdStare ISML Technical Staff Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Phoenix, AZ Age: 35	Ah, I just realized that the main argument here is not about the ANN database, but the reviews they have. Personally, I haven't looked at them, so I don't care. What I do know is that they have a great database, so whatever is bad about them, don't forget that it's not all of ANN. __________________ Kholdy's MAL, ISML Chat, Saimoe Blog, Saimoe Wiki

2008-04-14, 13:16	Link #18
Xellos-_^ Not Enough Sleep Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: R'lyeh Age: 48	ANN was originally a fan site back in the late 1990s. I remember it was almost like yesterday when i first saw thier link on anipike. While i know they semi-legit now i still see them as that fansite form way back. So a littel unprofessionalism isn't a bother to me. __________________

2008-04-14, 16:35	Link #20
DragoonKain3 Osana-Najimi Shipper Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Mt. Ordeals	For me, ANN will always and only ever will be a database for anime. And the one I use just to: a) see the upcoming boxset releases in R1 and b) see the VAs involved in a show. Overall, I'd rather use AniDB as a database (much easier to use and more importantly, MUCH less 'clatter'), and as for reviews/editorials, I don't really care for them as I already watch enough anime to form my own opinion of it. __________________ Yes its YOU childhood friend - source of BERZERKER RAGE since forever Childhood Friend couple STATISTICS(spoilers abound though)