2009-05-20, 15:55 | Link #81 | ||||||||
Disputatio exaro nex
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Now, we began to run in circles a bit so I feel like asking you a question based on a remark done about you earlier: You were called a Nina fan before, what exactly do you like about her? |
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2009-05-20, 16:03 | Link #82 | |
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You broght up some good facts but you totally show Nina in a negative light. I reply to some of your points. A.) You're right, but you position your expectation too high. It needs a serious and cool headed thinker to actually understand that. Felli only accepts what she hears because: 1. she's distanced from almost everything. Including the military arts, communities etc... 2. She loves Layfon 3. She's always cool headed(if not then she must went out her anger almost immediately...extreme emootions a bad thing for her Nen-i control) 4. She may thought something similar could happened in Layfon's past before He told the truth. B.)Platoon improves? What do you mean? Battle strenght? Naturally. Layfon is an one-man army so it's natural. But actually it was mainly because of Nina(and maybe Leerin's letters) that Layfon actually used his powers. Through Layfon Nina indirectly influenced Felli to use her powers too. Regarding the teamwork it's mainly Nina's work(actually often just in the backgrounds without showing Nina's work). So the improvement of the platoon directly and indirectly thanks to her. Perhaps without Layfon the platoon would be average at it's best. Layfon, Nina and the situations that made the platoon the thing now it is. E.) That's one of her developments. She relies on someone. She dares to give that role. If you say that Nina used Layfon then pretty much everyone used him. Felli as her private slave, Karian as his FM buster, Nina as their key fighter, Sharnid to raise his popularity, the Queen(obvious), the governer of the orphanage...pretty much almost everyone. But Layfon said he don't mind being used if it's for the sake of a thing he agrees on. |
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2009-05-20, 22:16 | Link #83 | |||||||||||||
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2009-05-20, 23:58 | Link #84 |
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How does Layfon getting punished by the queen have any bearing on how Nina treats him? Besides, by criticizing Nina's behavior towards Layfon, aren't you guilty of the same thing? I don't see how you condemn her actions when they are really justifiable. Nina isn't omniescent; she doesn't see what we do. All she knows is what she hears from Layfon and he's not telling her everything, so naturally she wouldn't have a clear picture of what's going on, especially when Layfon feels shame over the entire event as it is. And because he does, she probably thinks it was something really bad.
And just because Layfon saved the city doesn't automatically clear him of anything; Roy saved Leerin, and we can hardly say that he was good. Nina couldn't be sure about Layfon's intentions, not when they've only been on the same platoon for a short time and when he's already lied about his abilities. |
2009-05-21, 00:11 | Link #85 | |||||
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That a pedophile has been punished by the government certainly doesn't mean that "I" have to allow my child to go around him or associate with them. "You" might chose differently but that doesn't mean my reasoning is unjustified in anyway. Quote:
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2009-05-21, 00:46 | Link #86 | ||||||
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2009-05-21, 01:22 | Link #87 |
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heh but its fun too look how Nina-lovers are throwing away everything others say about her (the bad things without admitiing rights ) trying to make her a pure-crystal character that is allways right and her own actions dont couse harm to others
I could say only one thing.... Nina will never understand Layfon as much as Leerin does... Leerin (like layfon is 15years old.... nina 19y) knows way more about the surrounding world (the reality) than Nina (which starts to understand it a little in end of ep19 while flying in the sky >_< wow she really needs to see something with her own eyes to start belive/understand [talkign to her wont make her understand]) Hmm I wonder about ep20.... it seems she is unable to tell everyone that she becomed haikizoku host....... seriously in my eyes she is mean !!!!!! she was demanding the painfull (for Layfon) truth about his past (forcefully digging up the buried past... without thinking over layfons feelings) later she complained about it with her own ideals and started to hate layfon for what he did..... and here Nina diesppeared for 1-2days along with zerenii.... makeing layfon undergo mental pain (he blamed himself for her disapperance) and makeing him fight waves of monsters even throught he was still injured..... and now she returns and doesnt want to tell abut the truth.........<--- she is damn selfish here.... people should know what happenedd (layfon had to tell in order to make better teamwork.... so she should tell it too in order to make team cooperation better... [after 1-2days disapperance they demand and anser after all] So nina should tell them the truth and not make it look like 1way ticket that makes: everyone around her have to tell her all their pasts and secrets while she doesnt have to say anything (maybe the haikizoku would make them kinda worry but wouldnt they be more worried if soemthign started to happen with nina and they dont know what is the couse of that) |
2009-05-21, 01:29 | Link #88 | ||||
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Actually even if she ran she had little chance to escape that fate. Not to mention that she actually solved the problem a little. The City stopped and didn't move more deeper into the FM hive. If it continoues then even Layfon couldn't protect them for long. |
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2009-05-21, 02:18 | Link #89 | |||
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Also I might certainly make use of a pedophile if need to save the city but certainly after it's been saved I might chose to next time take my chances if I don't completely trust that person. My problem is your characterize her actions as irrational. It makes me wonder if you truly understand the meaning of the word. Yes, she chose different than you would and problem even I would. I would probably use Layfon as much as I could and kill him off once he's not needed or becomes a liability. Nina isn't like me but there is certainly good reasoning behind her actions. Quote:
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2009-05-21, 02:47 | Link #90 | |
Disputatio exaro nex
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So showing what I have written earlier as a response to your criticisms, you accept these and the following are your conflicting ideas: + She's using herself and others to protect the city. - You complain about her using people like tools. You complain about her efforts to get her duties done. You claim that she's only doing it for glory and jealousy. + She has to do anything legal to improve her squad and win matches. - You complain about her using her subordinates like assets. You complain about her confronting the 'free radical' element of her team, who may pose a threat to these objectives. So which shall it be? It feels like you've wandered off the coast while you tried to criticize basically everything Nina stands for. By any means, I don't see how you like her while denouncing her every aspect that's listed as "Nina in a positive light". |
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2009-05-21, 03:02 | Link #91 | ||||
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Well for me to be honest, if a criminal was already gone through a punishment at some place and arrive at a city, got a job and didn’t do anything wrong in the process while staying there, then at some point an alien assault came and then he saved the city singlehandedly resulting into probably millions saved, including loved ones; then I’ll gladly accept his service regardless what his ‘motives’ are. The city need his expertise no matter what. Especially in world like CSR where horde of hungry bugs could easily consumed an entire city unless the city is of course a broken hax like Grendan. Quote:
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2009-05-21, 04:23 | Link #92 |
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I personaly wonder what would Nina do if she was pushed in a corner similar to Layfon..... like if Nina dont drop military arts forever someone will hurt zerenii spirit..... or if nina wont hurt someone Zereni spirit will be hurt/killed
what would Nina do in that situation.... Zerenii fairy is that "important part (kinda like person)" thing for Nina (she wants to protect her).......... Layfons case was similar "kids in orphanage (people)" so he was not fighting for himself but was thinking only about them The differance between those cases is that "zerenii fairy doesnt need cloths,food,books and paying for the building" so all that Nina was doing was to play with her in machinery room.... and so in Layfons situation is the opposite "kids needed cloths,food,books,medicine and paying for the building" and for that he needed lots of money.... he sacraficed his pride & way of thinking that he is not human.... So personaly I see that Nina was working only for herself without worrying about others like Layfon who was thinking only about Leerin and kids in the orphanage I know that there are Nina-lovers who will not agree in any way with anyone.... but comapreing Layfon's case with Nina is kinda wrong their lifes were quite opposite (not only about that important part their are fighting for..... but the whole life... layfon had to fight with monsters and his mistake could be his death.... and Nina was safely playing in the inner platoon matches where you cant get killed ) Maybe Layfon had others principles.... like orphanage is more important for him than other people in the city but anyway he was fighting monsters and risking his life for the city so what is wrong in wanting to protect what is important to him...... haveing "important thing to him" gives him motivation never to give up and continue to try hard Nina never had the protecting whole city on her own mind (not talking about her dreams of "I will protect you zerenii" sicne she couldnt defeat even 1larva bug at the end) like Layfon...... HB have to fight alone outside the Regios city while people are liveing safely in the city meantime like nothing is happening....... failing in protecting is not acceptable whatever monster it is running away is not allowed defeat or die.... |
2009-05-21, 05:18 | Link #93 | |||
Disputatio exaro nex
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2009-05-21, 05:40 | Link #94 | |
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First: I don't know what would Nina do in Layfon's situation if she were completely in the same situation(she would probably do many things similary) But if we keep Nina's "typical personality"(Honorbound[and honest], Strong-willed and full of energy) then it something similar like that: Here's my quick-made story about Nina(with her usual personality) in Layfon's shoes at Grendan. Nina couldn't participate in illegal matches because it dirties the image of Military Arts. Instead she tries to work somewhere(as shop assistant, or worker at the machinery department). Perhaps everyone looks strangely on her as HB reciever. The queen probably forbids her to do that and then Nina asks for help from her. The Queen: A.maybe she helps her B.) she don't helps her and Nina must work secretly part-time somewhere(but still a honest work with relatively small pay... Nina believes it can't be helped). In the meantime her childhood friend Harely learns finance and he works in a part-time job too.Maybe Nina even convinces everyone to work for the good of the orphanage. Because thanks to his friend's advice she knows she can't earn enough and she needs the help of others. The news about the working orphanage spreads and many people donates for the well being of the orphans as a reaction. But someone finds out that Nina at part-time work actually Nina Volfstein Anttalk, the 12th HB reciever and tries to blackmail her to give up her status to her(with losing to him at the MA tournament). Nina nods for it at first, but at the actual tournament she can't do that and defeats him. The guy tells Nina's secret to everyone and it causes a great disturbance. The Queen is angry(she know it all, but she's angry because it found out), but partly to the efect of the public she supports the orphanage and Nina remains a HB reciever. That's it in short. I left out the angsty and self-hatred parts, but in short that happens when Nina(while she retains her personality from CSR...so as we know her). Like a fairytale? It's not exactly but with Layfon's power and Nina's personality we've got a Marry Sue cause much of Nina's faults comes from her powerlessness. Perhaps as i said if Nina grows up in the same situation as Layfon her personality somewhat become similar to Layfon's...we don't know which part of her personality is due to background and which one's hers since birth. |
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2009-05-21, 05:51 | Link #95 | ||
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2009-05-21, 06:07 | Link #96 | ||
Disputatio exaro nex
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"Punishment doesn't warrant rehabilitation by itself. It's not a matter of exacting revenge from him for what he did, it's about if he learned his lesson. He says he didn't and that's by itself enough to give second thoughts about working together. I don't know you but I wouldn't work together with a convicted criminal whose crimes defy all I value if I had the chance. It's not like Nina wants him to get exiled, she just would have him replaced to another platoon. This wouldn't have any impact on city's benefit from Layfon. He's happy, she's happy, city happy. Nobody loses anything." And if anyone likes to, we can move this discussion to Nina's thread. |
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2009-05-21, 06:26 | Link #97 | |||||
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2009-05-21, 06:42 | Link #98 | |||
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2009-05-21, 06:56 | Link #99 | ||
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But of course, ep 10 showed otherwise where she still accepted him there even though she’s pissed about it. |
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2009-05-21, 07:12 | Link #100 | |||
Disputatio exaro nex
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Nope, Layfon would devolve back into his emo comatose as it's Nina's actions that kept him moving forward. I didn't speculate about "what would happen" anyway. Quote:
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