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Old 2013-12-04, 18:16   Link #1301
MartianMage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Akihito was just regenerating like an ameba, without actually exposing anything seemly dangerous like a beam, explosion whatsoever.

So if Akihito's human form could only regenerate (assuming she thinks that the human part is completely dominating), there is no way for her to have an idea how scary Youmu Akihito is. So concluding he had a "rough life" is farfetched. He might be seen as a freak by normal humans should he is seen regenerating. But aside that, I see no reason for Mirai to suddenly think Akihito had it rough when he wasn't an imminent threat, with a rather healthy circle of friends, be it spirit warriors or even youmu.
Sooo... Akihito can only regenerate that's why he nearly killed Hiromi? Again she's already been told that he's dangerous. Does his youmu form look safe at all?
Quote:
Not only they aren't putting him in a quarantine or isolating him, but they are befriending him? That's rather a roundabout approach there.
Furthermore, you have to add Saya and Ai in the equation, both are an absolutely neutral party in the conflict.

There was absolutely nothing that would indicate Mirai it was false friendship whatsoever, and considering how things went even after her multiple attacks right from the get go.
errr... you know befriending an enemy is a common thing in fiction(no idea IRL but I figure espionage is like that). In fact just this season alone another anime has an enemy insider befriending the protagonists to get what they want.

Also Saya and Ai are both youmu. What's so unthinkable about youmus being chummy with a dangerous youmu?

And that's what they all say when the big reveal with the insider happens at the end. "We didn't know he was faking it!"

Quote:
Simply put, regardless how "potentially" dangerous Akihito was, the latter never exposed anything that would make him a threat.
In other words, her observations that spanned for several weeks don't match what Izumi told her (that he almost killed Hiromi). So obviously, she wouldn't know Akihito would be "that" dangerous, let alone he was suffering from this lifestyle.
... sigh... if that's how you're going to interpret it then we'll just have to agree to disagree. I just don't see how someone that looks like Akihito in his youmu form can't even be seen as dangerous not counting the fact that one of the most influential spirit world hunters is stating that fact.
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Old 2013-12-04, 18:44   Link #1302
Klashikari
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
Sooo... Akihito can only regenerate that's why he nearly killed Hiromi? Again she's already been told that he's dangerous. Does his youmu form look safe at all?
Why do you think I did mention Akihito and Youmu Akihito?
Considering Mirai's situation, what Akihito did was just regenerating. She never witnessed Youmu Akihito in action, that's the problem.
Quote:
errr... you know befriending an enemy is a common thing in fiction(no idea IRL but I figure espionage is like that). In fact just this season alone another anime has an enemy insider befriending the protagonists to get what they want.
We aren't here to discuss of the plausible aspect of "false approach" whatsoever, especially when it comes to a series that arguably don't have anything to intel whatsoever.
It also is asinine to think there is a false friendship at work considering the circumstances: why would Izumi leave Mirai in the dark if Hiromi and Mitsuki are feigning friendship? Why wouldn't they plan things with Mirai who was dispatched by Izumi then?

Frankly, the whole deal with "fake friendship" etc doesn't make any sense in the given context. If Izumi's plot did involve her siblings, then considering her logic, she would have made several plans involving the -four- of them. Yet, Mirai only interacted with Izumi when it comes to killing Akihito. Of course, as the audience we know it isn't the case anyway. That being said, in a narrative perspective, it is very unlikely to keep people in the dark despite they are on the same mission. So no, that doesn't hold the water at all.

By default, what she witnessed with Hiromi and Mitsuki's behaviour is de facto genuine looking to her (which is why she thought he had a happy life regardless of his youmu lineage). The likes that actually confirm Mirai's inability to identity Akihito as "that dangerous half youmu".
Quote:
... sigh... if that's how you're going to interpret it then we'll just have to agree to disagree. I just don't see how someone that looks like Akihito in his youmu form can't even be seen as dangerous not counting the fact that one of the most influential spirit world hunters is stating that fact.
Izumi never said "how dangerous" he is prior what happened in episode 4.Also, watch again the episode: what Mirai saw was just how Akihito look like in Youmu form. She never saw him in action and was told that he is "dangerous". And that's the critical problem I was mentioning for a while. Being told X is dangerous is purely not enough, unless you actually witness the extent of such threat (be it record or first hand).

Sure she saw Hiromi's injuries... and? She didn't know how strong Hiromi was at that time, nor how he was overpowered. In fact, she lacks so many crucial information that the -extent- of danger is not tangible. I'm not even sure if Mirai knows how strong Izumi is. She knows the Naze family name, but that's far as it goes.

The fun fact is that Izumi told her that Hiromi got almost killed when Youmu Akihito counterattacked. However, in the present time, Akihito didn't. And suffice to say, this episode also showed how relentless Mirai was after him, however goofy it was.
So really, regardless how "badass" Youmu Akihito is, Mirai had no reason to expect an absolute monster when you had -Human Akihito- acting this way thus far, and despite his life was endangered several times because of her.

I woudn't disagree if Mirai actually saw Youmu Akihito's powers to a certain extent prior the events of ep4, but as far as it goes, she only saw a pale skinned humanoid youmu with black eyes, and Hiromi's wounds on his back.
That's everything I had to say about that, past this point, it is indeed just cycling.
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Old 2013-12-04, 19:13   Link #1303
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Well, to be honest for me this week's ep felt more like a needless mess than anything else, but to be fair I dislike the use of "alternate realities" and such, so maybe no surprise.

I will prolly watch it through to the end but I seriously doubt at this point whether I will be archiving the series. A pity as it had potential, but then again different folks have different tastes.
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Old 2013-12-04, 19:39   Link #1304
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Why do you think I did mention Akihito and Youmu Akihito?
Considering Mirai's situation, what Akihito did was just regenerating. She never witnessed Youmu Akihito in action, that's the problem.
We aren't here to discuss of the plausible aspect of "false approach" whatsoever, especially when it comes to a series that arguably don't have anything to intel whatsoever.
It also is asinine to think there is a false friendship at work considering the circumstances: why would Izumi leave Mirai in the dark if Hiromi and Mitsuki are feigning friendship? Why wouldn't they plan things with Mirai who was dispatched by Izumi then?

Frankly, the whole deal with "fake friendship" etc doesn't make any sense in the given context. If Izumi's plot did involve her siblings, then considering her logic, she would have made several plans involving the -four- of them. Yet, Mirai only interacted with Izumi when it comes to killing Akihito. Of course, as the audience we know it isn't the case anyway. That being said, in a narrative perspective, it is very unlikely to keep people in the dark despite they are on the same mission. So no, that doesn't hold the water at all.

By default, what she witnessed with Hiromi and Mitsuki's behaviour is de facto genuine looking to her (which is why she thought he had a happy life regardless of his youmu lineage). The likes that actually confirm Mirai's inability to identity Akihito as "that dangerous half youmu".
Izumi never said "how dangerous" he is prior what happened in episode 4.Also, watch again the episode: what Mirai saw was just how Akihito look like in Youmu form. She never saw him in action and was told that he is "dangerous". And that's the critical problem I was mentioning for a while. Being told X is dangerous is purely not enough, unless you actually witness the extent of such threat (be it record or first hand).

Sure she saw Hiromi's injuries... and? She didn't know how strong Hiromi was at that time, nor how he was overpowered. In fact, she lacks so many crucial information that the -extent- of danger is not tangible. I'm not even sure if Mirai knows how strong Izumi is. She knows the Naze family name, but that's far as it goes.

The fun fact is that Izumi told her that Hiromi got almost killed when Youmu Akihito counterattacked. However, in the present time, Akihito didn't. And suffice to say, this episode also showed how relentless Mirai was after him, however goofy it was.
So really, regardless how "badass" Youmu Akihito is, Mirai had no reason to expect an absolute monster when you had -Human Akihito- acting this way thus far, and despite his life was endangered several times because of her.

I woudn't disagree if Mirai actually saw Youmu Akihito's powers to a certain extent prior the events of ep4, but as far as it goes, she only saw a pale skinned humanoid youmu with black eyes, and Hiromi's wounds on his back.
That's everything I had to say about that, past this point, it is indeed just cycling.
yep this is exactly, izumi just dont give her enough info about her target, she just come and say "this createru is immortal and dangerous, he almost killed my brother and nothing more, prior ep4 mirai was completly clueless about "how dangerous akihito really was, she just see a image of his yomo side but when start to interact with him she just see a some sort of "normal" guy with glasses fetich but a very good person who obvious make her job hard, we can't just come and act like she was "aware of everything", the bad guy here was izumi who just used mirai to do her job since izumi herself dont have courage to do(maybe fear the retalation of akihito mother since, his mother is a some sort of "well know" legendary yomu hunter). izumi tricked mirai to do her job.
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Old 2013-12-04, 19:53   Link #1305
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Originally Posted by ellessarr View Post
yep this is exactly, izumi just dont give her enough info about her target, she just come and say "this createru is immortal and dangerous, he almost killed my brother and nothing more, prior ep4 mirai was completly clueless about "how dangerous akihito really was, she just see a image of his yomo side but when start to interact with him she just see a some sort of "normal" guy with glasses fetich but a very good person who obvious make her job hard, we can't just come and act like she was "aware of everything", the bad guy here was izumi who just used mirai to do her job since izumi herself dont have courage to do(maybe fear the retalation of akihito mother since, his mother is a some sort of "well know" legendary yomu hunter). izumi tricked mirai to do her job.
I don't think Izumi is worried about upsetting Akihito's mom, at least the show hasn't shown us anything that would suggest that. If anything I think it's because Izumi wants to not dirty the Nase family's hands by murdering Akihito as well as to limit the damage/cost to the Nase if they tried to take out Akihito by themselves, especially after Hitomi had been badly injured by Akihito's youmu form.
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Old 2013-12-04, 20:01   Link #1306
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This episode was good and reveal a lot of information about Mirai and Izumi but I don't understand well the first part, with the season scenes.
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Old 2013-12-04, 20:13   Link #1307
ellessarr
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Originally Posted by Mangaka-chan View Post
I don't think Izumi is worried about upsetting Akihito's mom, at least the show hasn't shown us anything that would suggest that. If anything I think it's because Izumi wants to not dirty the Nase family's hands by murdering Akihito as well as to limit the damage/cost to the Nase if they tried to take out Akihito by themselves, especially after Hitomi had been badly injured by Akihito's youmu form.
but akihito mother put akihito in the hands of nase family not to then kill him, but just watch over him and take care, if their really killed him obvious will gonna make her want a revenge since most of the things who happened in anime not was his fault the 2 times he get turned in youmu not was him fault and the second was even izumi doing in purpose, this means who she will gonna get a retaliation.
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Old 2013-12-04, 20:24   Link #1308
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Well, to be honest for me this week's ep felt more like a needless mess than anything else, but to be fair I dislike the use of "alternate realities" and such, so maybe no surprise.

I will prolly watch it through to the end but I seriously doubt at this point whether I will be archiving the series. A pity as it had potential, but then again different folks have different tastes.
This, also the fact that I'm having a hard time buying any of the drama when there's a pretty high chance both Mirai and Akihito will be alive and well by the end of the series.
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Old 2013-12-04, 20:35   Link #1309
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I'm truly impressed with this week's episode. Also that transition from the prologue to opening song. So many symbolism there. I'm really impressed.
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Old 2013-12-04, 20:48   Link #1310
MeoTwister5
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A great episode like this really just reinforces my belief that the series is suffering in the same way Angel Beats did. That is to say, if they got like 20ish episodes to really flesh things out the series could have been simply amazing.
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Old 2013-12-04, 22:33   Link #1311
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Well this was a little confusing but at less there was some backstory on Mirai
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Old 2013-12-05, 00:23   Link #1312
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Y'know, certain segments of this episode weren't actually bad. I kid you not though, the moment Akihito made the obligatory glasses joke, the episode started to drift back into its regular nothingness.

Still, those moments of relative interest at the beginning made it much better than most of the other episodes.
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Old 2013-12-05, 03:01   Link #1313
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Episode 10 reminded me a bit of Madoka's episode 10. Except the revelations aren't really that interesting or even that surprising. I mean, we all kind of saw the whole Mirai/Izumi thing coming in the last couple of episodes. It doesn't really make us see Mirai in a new light either, since her personality and motivations were pretty much laid out before hand. Episode 10 just filled in the few blanks that were missing but the overall picture was pretty apparent already. I also don't particularly like how she just randomly gains a new ability when the plot needed it.

The direction and mood was pretty nice. I kind of wish this was the direction the anime took from the start. A sort of melancholic tone where the humor didn't stray too far from the core aesthetic. I feel like KyoAn should have just a tone and stuck with it, instead of shifting back and forth. It'd have made a much stronger, more cohesive narrative.

After everything is revealed in episode 10 it's pretty apparent to me that Mirai's trauma when trying to kill Youma was a completely unnecessary addition to the story. It didn't flow well at the beginning, and now that we have her complete story revealed it sticks out like a sore thumb. At best, you can do some mental gymnastics and fit it in, but I think the show would have been much better received if they didn't add this part in. Sakura is also a really useless addition to the cast. She just feels completely shoehorned in. It seems her only real use is to push Akihito and Mirai together, and there are much better ways to do that then add a character like her. She's basically the director's prop when he needs Mirai to do something that's too embarrassing for Mirai to admit.

As for the next 2 episodes, I'm guessing both the Society and Izumi's goal is to take the KnK stone for themselves. I bet if left alone the KnK really doesn't pose any threat to humanity at all, but of course it'd be a powerful weapon if utilized. Akihito's mom will probably show up in the last episode to put people in their place.

Last edited by RobotCat; 2013-12-05 at 03:54.
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Old 2013-12-05, 04:38   Link #1314
MartianMage
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Why do you think I did mention Akihito and Youmu Akihito?
Considering Mirai's situation, what Akihito did was just regenerating. She never witnessed Youmu Akihito in action, that's the problem.
We aren't here to discuss of the plausible aspect of "false approach" whatsoever, especially when it comes to a series that arguably don't have anything to intel whatsoever.
It also is asinine to think there is a false friendship at work considering the circumstances: why would Izumi leave Mirai in the dark if Hiromi and Mitsuki are feigning friendship? Why wouldn't they plan things with Mirai who was dispatched by Izumi then?

Frankly, the whole deal with "fake friendship" etc doesn't make any sense in the given context. If Izumi's plot did involve her siblings, then considering her logic, she would have made several plans involving the -four- of them. Yet, Mirai only interacted with Izumi when it comes to killing Akihito. Of course, as the audience we know it isn't the case anyway. That being said, in a narrative perspective, it is very unlikely to keep people in the dark despite they are on the same mission. So no, that doesn't hold the water at all.

By default, what she witnessed with Hiromi and Mitsuki's behaviour is de facto genuine looking to her (which is why she thought he had a happy life regardless of his youmu lineage). The likes that actually confirm Mirai's inability to identity Akihito as "that dangerous half youmu".
Izumi never said "how dangerous" he is prior what happened in episode 4.Also, watch again the episode: what Mirai saw was just how Akihito look like in Youmu form. She never saw him in action and was told that he is "dangerous". And that's the critical problem I was mentioning for a while. Being told X is dangerous is purely not enough, unless you actually witness the extent of such threat (be it record or first hand).

Sure she saw Hiromi's injuries... and? She didn't know how strong Hiromi was at that time, nor how he was overpowered. In fact, she lacks so many crucial information that the -extent- of danger is not tangible. I'm not even sure if Mirai knows how strong Izumi is. She knows the Naze family name, but that's far as it goes.

The fun fact is that Izumi told her that Hiromi got almost killed when Youmu Akihito counterattacked. However, in the present time, Akihito didn't. And suffice to say, this episode also showed how relentless Mirai was after him, however goofy it was.
So really, regardless how "badass" Youmu Akihito is, Mirai had no reason to expect an absolute monster when you had -Human Akihito- acting this way thus far, and despite his life was endangered several times because of her.

I woudn't disagree if Mirai actually saw Youmu Akihito's powers to a certain extent prior the events of ep4, but as far as it goes, she only saw a pale skinned humanoid youmu with black eyes, and Hiromi's wounds on his back.
That's everything I had to say about that, past this point, it is indeed just cycling.
sigh you're just missing the point... about the whole fake friendship thing... you're even bringing up genre talk when it's all about Mirai's perspective.

I'll just say this... why is there a need for us to look at things from another angle when it's pretty straightforward? It doesn't even really matter if Mirai doesn't know the full extent of Akihito's power. The fact is she knows he is dangerous which brings the whole "Do I look like normal" drama pointless.

Oh and on another topic...

I also find it lulzy how Izumi told Mirai some BS about absorbing KnK using her blood and ended up being true! Seriously Mirai's blood is like magic! Sometimes it kills/corrodes everything! Sometimes it returns an enraged Akihito back to normal without killing him! Sometimes it allows Mirai to speak with Akihito with 1 drop of blood! Sometimes it allows her to absorb Knk onto herself without killing Akihito! Next time it will clean the dishes!!!
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Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls' souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!

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Old 2013-12-05, 05:24   Link #1315
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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post

I also find it lulzy how Izumi told Mirai some BS about absorbing KnK using her blood and ended up being true! Seriously Mirai's blood is like magic! Sometimes it kills/corrodes everything! Sometimes it returns an enraged Akihito back to normal without killing him! Sometimes it allows Mirai to speak with Akihito with 1 drop of blood! Sometimes it allows her to absorb Knk onto herself without killing Akihito! Next time it will clean the dishes!!!
It'd have been an interesting take if the whole hatred/fear of Mirai's bloodline was a cover that the Youmu Hunter's Association was using in order to harvest the blood of Mirai's clansmen for their magical properties.
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Old 2013-12-05, 07:56   Link #1316
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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
I'll just say this... why is there a need for us to look at things from another angle when it's pretty straightforward? It doesn't even really matter if Mirai doesn't know the full extent of Akihito's power. The fact is she knows he is dangerous which brings the whole "Do I look like normal" drama pointless.
I think you have a huge misconception about who delivered that line. It was Mirai's conflict inside. Considering she's still bothered by Yui's death and that she considers herself a monster that needs to be alone. Aside from being advised by Izumi to distance herself from Aki, she already looked like someone who wanted to detach herself from the world.

Also that line wasn't Aki's original line. Aki feeling a little down at the end, threw the line back to Mirai.

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Originally Posted by MartianMage View Post
I also find it lulzy how Izumi told Mirai some BS about absorbing KnK using her blood and ended up being true! Seriously Mirai's blood is like magic! Sometimes it kills/corrodes everything! Sometimes it returns an enraged Akihito back to normal without killing him! Sometimes it allows Mirai to speak with Akihito with 1 drop of blood! Sometimes it allows her to absorb Knk onto herself without killing Akihito! Next time it will clean the dishes!!!
The capabilities and boundaries of magic here are kinda fuzzy. Though she's not as far off as Miroku for example who I can't even puzzle how his magic works.

That aside, my take on this is that it was done in the same manner as ep 4. She flushed out the Youmu inside Aki. Being completely Youmu on the outside now she managed to flush it out doing less damage to Aki. Though like how the Hollow Shadow reacted when it was driven out, it sought a new host. It took Mirai and vanished.

Regarding Aki's dream, while mirai's blood having an effect in Aki's dream felt out of the blue. It was kinda foreshadowed.

Images
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Though a dream is a dream. To me it was just a representation of Aki gradually regaining his senses. Now I'm not particularly familiar with the weather and season in Japan. I had to look up the seasons and weather patterns in Japan since I was kinda confused of the timeline.

At first I was confused when Dream Mitsuki says Aki died seemingly died 2 weeks ago and that when he woke up, it was depicted as fall. Then I realized time was going so fast in his dream. It went from summer to fall(Late June/Mid July to Mid September/Early October).

Assuming that he did die 2 weeks ago as Dream Mitsuki said(and it was still summer), I take it he died around Late June to Mid July. Judging by how the episode was depicted with a gray sky, I take it that rainy seasons were taking place.

It would kinda make sense that he'd still feel the summer heat subconsciously, if he'd regain some of his senses around early August. Now I'm not particular in seeing how Sunflowers react to Autumn season but seeing how it's withered I just assumed that it's a representation that Aki was about to wake up sometime in Mid September to Early October.

That said being the slowpoke I am
Spoiler:


Now I'm hoping for something ballsy but this is wishful thinking.

Spoiler for wishful thinking and speculation:


Ah whatever. This show has gone to places I didn't expect. Mirai disappearing was certainly a curve ball.
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Old 2013-12-05, 11:04   Link #1317
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Originally Posted by RobotCat View Post
After everything is revealed in episode 10 it's pretty apparent to me that Mirai's trauma when trying to kill Youma was a completely unnecessary addition to the story. It didn't flow well at the beginning, and now that we have her complete story revealed it sticks out like a sore thumb. At best, you can do some mental gymnastics and fit it in, but I think the show would have been much better received if they didn't add this part in. Sakura is also a really useless addition to the cast. She just feels completely shoehorned in. It seems her only real use is to push Akihito and Mirai together, and there are much better ways to do that then add a character like her. She's basically the director's prop when he needs Mirai to do something that's too embarrassing for Mirai to admit.
Agreed on both points.

Mirai's trauma makes no sense and was completely needless since it had pretty much no influence on the plot. She was ok with killing a human looking youmu (which should have reminded her of Yui a lot) and yet she had trouble killing a tiny monster like youmu. I don't think that's how it works. They should have left this element out.
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Old 2013-12-05, 20:42   Link #1318
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I just want Izumi dead! She is more evil and conniving than any Dreamshade!
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Old 2013-12-06, 02:57   Link #1319
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I think that episode 10 was nothing short of brilliant and it did a lot to redeem the whole show in my eyes.

Many plot holes were finally closed, particularly regarding why Mirai immediately attacked Akihito despite her initial reluctance to kill youmu. It also explained why she distanced herself from him during the Hollow Shadow incident.

The show is far from perfect (for instance, I still think that Sakura’s character is shallow) but at least the main story makes a lot of sense now.
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Old 2013-12-06, 07:19   Link #1320
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From Ishidate's interview in one of the monthly magazines:
At the beginning, it was my intention to make Izumi into the final boss, but I felt that was lacking in excitement as a story, so I sought out Hanada-sensei's opinion. He commented, "Why don't we make it so that it was her plan to get Mirai to come to town to kill Akihito from the start? So we quickly changed the scripts to suit that storyline. We endevored to revise the scenarios to put this foreshadowing into the final version and maintain consistency with what had already been written.

Edit: No need to bump for staff announcement.

Episode 11: Black World
Script: Jukki Hanada
Storyboards/Direction: Ichirou Miyoshi (Yoshiji Kigami)
Animation Director: Nao Naitou

Episode 12: Grey World
Script: Jukki Hanada
Storyboards: Taiichi Ishidate
Direction: Taiichi Ogawa
Animation Direction: Miku Kadowaki
__________________

“Nyahaha! Then we move to round two, Hero! ★”
Chuunibyou translation: 1st novel - OUT/ 2nd novel - OUT

Last edited by ultimatemegax; 2013-12-07 at 23:55.
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