The Philosophy of Code Geass

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

When did the Black Knight start raping and killing civilians? Must be a lost episode

Well technically, in S1 24, Tamaki was ready to beat Rivalz. But i guess this is being Tamaki being a prick, it was more of an individual action. Still, if it was not for Lulu to get there at time, this might have turned nasty. BK are FAR from saints.
Britania is not worth saving, but BK have done their fair of royal amount of shit as well. It just, some things make them more tolerable than the other "opponent" side i guess.

[azul120]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Nah, they only betrayed the very person who was the key to their success.

In their defense, a lot of it had to do with the wily and manipulative Schneizel.

[Maxmillian]

Originally Posted by azul120

In their defense, a lot of it had to do with the wily and manipulative Schneizel.

That doesn't matter, they could of based it on Tamaki's outburst that it could of been faked or rigged plus why would they trust a Britannian from the royal family of all people. They're idiots simple as that and if Kaguya and Xingke were there they sure as hell wouldn't have bought any of it.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by azul120

In their defense, a lot of it had to do with the wily and manipulative Schneizel.

Yes, but Schneizel was the enemy... and Ougi was being an idiot (I don't hate him or anything, but in my opinion, that's a fact).
They are still grey, of course, but definitely not white - just less "black" than Britannia. xD

[Haku-Men]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Yes, but Schneizel was the enemy... and Ougi was being an idiot (I don't hate him or anything, but in my opinion, that's a fact).
They are still grey, of course, but definitely not white - just less "black" than Britannia. xD

They're all gray since they all had personal vendettas to accomplish

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Mahakala

They're all gray since they all had personal vendettas to accomplish

*nods her head*
Well, except for Euphie and Arthur, maybe.

[Haku-Men]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

*nods her head*
Well, except for Euphie and Arthur, maybe.

Yes Euphie and Arthur (I would say Rivalaz and Milly but they were pretty much out of the conflict) . I'm surprise with Nunnally and Shirley being gray as well.

[Charred Knight]

Where the Black Knights saints? No, but they at least felt bad for Narita, when the hell did the Brittannians feel bad for any of the massacres? Not even Cecile seems to regret the actions of Britannia. They just didn't care about all the people they killed.

If Okouchi really wanted Britannia to be sympathetic he would have had soldiers question their actions. Okouchi isn't a bad writer, his work on Turn A Gundam is brilliant, and from what I have seen of King Gainer, its also brilliant, now both may be because of Tomino but I doubt it.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Mahakala

Yes Euphie and Arthur (I would say Rivalaz and Milly but they were pretty much out of the conflict) . I'm surprise with Nunnally and Shirley being gray as well.

Agreed.
Did I mention that I love the philosophy of Code Geass?
Grey is such a nice colour, after all.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

If Okouchi really wanted Britannia to be sympathetic he would have had soldiers question their actions. Okouchi isn't a bad writer, his work on Turn A Gundam is brilliant, and from what I have seen of King Gainer, its also brilliant, now both may be because of Tomino but I doubt it.

And Clovis was portrayed as grey right in the beginning just for the heck of it?

[Maxmillian]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

Where the Black Knights saints? No, but they at least felt bad for Narita, when the hell did the Brittannians feel bad for any of the massacres? Not even Cecile seems to regret the actions of Britannia. They just didn't care about all the people they killed..

I never knew that Kallen represented the entire Black Knights, because she was the only one that felt bad about Narita but thanks to Zero's speech she got over it everyone else seem overjoyed on their victory regardless who died. They're doing heir job why should they care, the same with the BK their doing what they think it's right.

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

If Okouchi really wanted Britannia to be sympathetic he would have had soldiers question their actions. Okouchi isn't a bad writer, his work on Turn A Gundam is brilliant, and from what I have seen of King Gainer, its also brilliant, now both may be because of Tomino but I doubt it.

This is true but the only time the BK shown remorse is when they were killing in the geass cult (and that was just one member). I never said Okouchi was a bad writer I just mentioned that in King Gainer that the bad guys were kind of dumb or just misguided that's how you felt sympathy for them they just seem to be going about their busy without trying to go to the extremes (I'm refering to those three goofballs who pursued to stop Exodus) Others like Assuham went to the extreme for one simple goal (which was hilarious b the way) There was one more but I forgot his name.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Agreed.
Did I mention that I love the philosophy of Code Geass?
Grey is such a nice colour, after all.

Edit:


And Clovis was portrayed as grey right in the beginning just for the heck of it?

You mean the guy who massacred innocent civilians? He wasn't portrayed with any sympathy until after the first series with the extras (I think it was in one of the picture dramas)

Don't mistake having some character depth with true greyness

Like I said the best portrayal of greyness Okouchi has written is Turn A Gundam, where both the Earthlings, and Moon Race where given valid reasons for what they where doing. The result is that neither side was the villain, and you could root for either side. Okouchi also made the Siberian Railroad from King Gainer gray by making it clear that most of them are simply doing their job of preventing Exodus which will cause Siberian Railroad to lose their monopoly.

On the other hand Britannia is introduced as a bunch of racist bastards who have no problem annihalating Japanese at the drop of a hat. They feel no remorse for their actions in ruining the world. They believe they are in the right simply because they are Britannians.

[Neku]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

You do know that Luciano Bradley was psychotic? He was the only person in the entire series with no redeeming qualities what so ever, he was pure evil.

Yes, and therefore?

What your stating is that War Crimes are okay, because its war, and Taniguchi, and Okouchi are not stating that.I don't think Okouchi, and Taniguchi are trying to tell people to join the army and indescriminatly slaughter people. They where obviously people that where wrong in this series like Bradley, and Charles.

What I used, was an analogy on how things are perceived. I never implemented whether they were right or wrong.

You mean the guy who massacred innocent civilians? He wasn't portrayed with any sympathy until after the first series with the extras (I think it was in one of the picture dramas)

So, what about the fact that Zero left civillians to die as well when Suzaku was pursuing him?

Whether it's Zero, Lelouch or Clovis, they are all tainted. They're not entirely black, not white either. They are mixed, and therefore grey.

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

But I definitely agree. *-*

Well then, thank you.

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Neku

Yes, and therefore?



What I used, was an analogy on how things are perceived. I never implemented whether they were right or wrong.



So, what about the fact that Zero left civillians to die as well when Suzaku was pursuing him?

Whether it's Zero, Lelouch or Clovis, they are all tainted. They're not entirely black, not white either. They are mixed, and therefore grey.



Well then, thank you.

Who would be the last person you would try to put your beliefs through?

A psychotic evil person

Why? because its a psychotic evil person it makes your views look messed up. I mean does anyone really believe that it was okay for the Japanese to do what they did in China just because they where part of an army?

Other than Rising Dragon of course

[Neku]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

Who would be the last person you would try to put your beliefs through?

A psychotic evil person

Why? because its a psychotic evil person it makes your views look messed up. I mean does anyone really believe that it was okay for the Japanese to do what they did in China just because they where part of an army?

Other than Rising Dragon of course

You misinterpreted twice.
That was an analogy, an example, not a belief, and not about who to trust. Also, I wasn't saying it's okay. I'm saying it's understandable.

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

You mean the guy who massacred innocent civilians? He wasn't portrayed with any sympathy until after the first series with the extras (I think it was in one of the picture dramas)

In one of the Sound Dramas, yes, but that wasn't all.
I especially liked the scene in which Cornelia mentions that Clovis designed a garden after the one at Alius' Imperial Villa - the place he liked "even though he always argued with Lelouch there".
I think that was the moment my obsession started...

Don't mistake having some character depth with true greyness

But, in my opinion, a character with depth is always grey.

On the other hand Britannia is introduced as a bunch of racist bastards who have no problem annihalating Japanese at the drop of a hat. They feel no remorse for their actions in ruining the world. They believe they are in the right simply because they are Britannians.

Yet, by the end of the show, the main characters thought they were "worth saving" - just like everyone else.
Oh well. Interpretations.

[bladeofdarkness]

we know bradly killed his abusive father when he was just a little kid
does that make him gray (given what we actually saw in the anime)

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

we know bradly killed his abusive father when he was just a little kid
does that make him gray (given what we actually saw in the anime)

Well, that was mentioned in the novels, and you know how people like to scream "Non-canon!" when you mention the novels here.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Well, that was mentioned in the novels, and you know how people like to scream "Non-canon!" when you mention the novels here.

irrelevent
it was only ment as a way of showing how character depth does not make a character gray just by being character depth
even if it was completely canon it wouldnt make bradly any less of a monster

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

irrelevent
it was only ment as a way of showing how character depth does not make a character gray just by being character depth
even if it was completely canon it wouldnt make bradly any less of a monster

Depth?
Giving a character a bad past and mentioning it with one word (or not at all) doesn't equal depth.
Oh well. If I ever see a character I would call both "deep" and "black", I won't clinge to my believes on this matter. But until that happens... *shrugs*

[Charred Knight]

Originally Posted by Nogitsune

Yet, by the end of the show, the main characters thought they were "worth saving" - just like everyone else.
Oh well. Interpretations.

Lelouch also thought that Nina, a person that designed the FLEIJA to commit Genocide on the Japanese and only felt sad because it was used on caucasians instead a "good person".