[Manga] Chapter 517 Discussion

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by james0246

That being said, I am surprised there is so little discussion cocnernign the start of official action in the war. Literally in the first pages of conflict, and we already have at least 2 friendly casualties, possibly more. So, already there is more death here than in all of Kubo's War (j/k) .

Well one. Anko is just sleeping. Sleeping I say. This is Kishimoto's version of the Winter War. Structurally both wars are similar. Kubo gave two chapters to each stupid side battle. Kishi seems to be giving multiple chapters to each side battle.

The differences are huge though. Kishi wisely seems to setting up team battles where one-on-one fights only occur within the team battles. A whole two chapters with just Sasori vs. Kankuro would bore fans. But with Sai and his brother, and the others vs. Deidara occurring at the same time, it seems exciting because of the character interaction. And people generally care about Kishi's side characters even though he doesn't. Outside of Whitey, that really isn't the case with Bleach. Kishi also doesn't have to waste time developing new villains like a Stark or Harribel. Ah, the advantages of Edo Tensei.

But "The Really Rottens" has to win this first event in the Laff-A-Lympics. Omoi, Sai, and Kankuro. One of these characters has to die so the others can escape. If a C-list team can defeat Deidara, Sasori, and two other zombies then what will Division Three do with the more important Kakashi, Lee, and Sakura? Or Division Four with Shikamaru and Temari? Or Division Two with Neji and that girl that likes Naruto. What's her name? The Alliance will own. And that will be repeating Kubo's fatal error.

Where the hell is the bad guys victory going to come from? Oh yeah, I forgot Tenten's team is around.

[NoLongerSane]

^ It's pretty much obvious that Madra/Kabuto's side will take a few first key victories to set the mood for this war. It would make great sense for the enemy's ambush team to beat the opposing ambush team for their army to take the early advantage. From the casualties/prisoners standpoint, it sort of sad that the bug user was killed off, but his troubles are over unlike his two teammates who are currently being used as living puppets by Sasori. As for Anko, we will have to wait and see what Kishi has in fate for her.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

Well one. Anko is just sleeping. Sleeping I say. This is Kishimoto's version of the Winter War. Structurally both wars are similar. Kubo gave two chapters to each stupid side battle. Kishi seems to be giving multiple chapters to each side battle.

At least 2. Specifically Anko's Team (the Hyuuga and the Aburame (is that the spelling?)).

[Frenchie]

^Isn't the Hyuuga being controlled by the chakra strings, actually? I still think there's at least two casualties, but I wouldn't be able to tell you who it is, specifically.

[NoLongerSane]

From looking at the chapter and the strategies used, it would seem that Kabuto's ambush team is technically taking prisoners, only to use them against their allies as seen with the Aburame character being used as a controlled human bomb and the other two being used as puppets.

[JustRob]

I seriously doubt Anko will survive. I know she's a popular character, but look at that. She's really beat up and on top of that Kabuto is holding her. How is anyone gonna save her before he finishes her off?

I love the Deidara action, but I wouldn't mind seeing some of the other zombies talk. Especially Itachi, imagine the mindfuck if he were to face Sasuke.

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by Shiryuu

Huh? Bee seems more successful to me. Ichibi desummons if Gaara is hit. Bee can't get hit at all. In sand village only, maybe.

i'm talking about the sand jinchuuriki, among them gaara and the ichibi's union was the most successful. the others were probably not as strong to keep the ichibi in check.

killerbee was successful because he was able to befriend his bijuu, something that the other jinchuuriki apparently didn't manage to do. plus he's also said to be "special", for he seems to have the ability to control bijuu in much the same way as hashirama who tamed bijuu like pets.

[Shiryuu]

A thought. Susanoo activate/moves based on Itachi's mind (at least from what I've seen). If Itachi still has his mind/emotion, couldn't he easily annihilate a lot of Madara's forces/seal most of the zombies before Kabuto manages to stop him?

[herculan]

Originally Posted by Shiryuu

A thought. Susanoo activate/moves based on Itachi's mind (at least from what I've seen). If Itachi still has his mind/emotion, couldn't he easily annihilate a lot of Madara's forces/seal most of the zombies before Kabuto manages to stop him?

Thats the same thing as saying that every character could simply act on his own because the mind(the part they still have control over) is telling the body to move and kill kabuto/madara..
Because just like susano'o the body moves according to what the mind tells it to do.. But it didn't change the fact that the zombie bodies are still being controlled.. so same goes for susano'o.

[ronin myael]

Originally Posted by Shiryuu

A thought. Susanoo activate/moves based on Itachi's mind (at least from what I've seen). If Itachi still has his mind/emotion, couldn't he easily annihilate a lot of Madara's forces/seal most of the zombies before Kabuto manages to stop him?

i think what itachi has now is just memories. he's not even using his real body, he can use his powers but he has no control over them. i won't be surprised if one of those so called zombies break out of kabuto's influence though.

[tkdtiger]

Originally Posted by Frenchie

^Isn't the Hyuuga being controlled by the chakra strings, actually? I still think there's at least two casualties, but I wouldn't be able to tell you who it is, specifically.

Theyre being controlled but they are still alive so now kankurou and sai have the added problem of not wanting to kill their comrades

[Kotengu]

Originally Posted by matsunaga_hisahide

Kabuto is the source of my interest for Naruto. With him gone, I don´t know if I really want to read it any further. He´s the secret factor that still keeps me on my toes, seeing as I don´t know, what to make of him and his actions.

Kabuto is also my favorite villain. When I play games where I'm an evil character I hate being limited to evil actions, as the rewards for doing good stuff is usually also desirable. He's even better cuz we don't know what he really wants (aside from maybe sharingan). Once I found out Madara's plan I stopped liking him as a villain.
I do wonder how this undead army is going to work thou. Most of these ninja were unique because of their bloodlines and chakras. But there are going to be some real continuity issues at work here.
-Can corpses use bloodline jutsu?
-Can just a soul mimic all of a ninja's abilites no matter the body
-Does the advanced bushin jutsu Itachi and Kisame used work in a similar way?
Some of these things should have been hashed out more clearly like in HunterxHunter or Psyren.

[Neji112]

Seeing that the author bothered to mention the plan to end Edo tensei through genjitsu. If Itachi does turn on Kabuto, it would most likely will be Itachi casting genjitsu causing Kabuto to end Edo Tensei rather than using something like Susano on him.

Since Deidara and Sasori are Kage level characters I would expect that they could beat the good guy ambush team with relative ease. Sai and Kankoro aren't even high level Jounins. While I get that this war's overall purpose is fan service, I do hope that power levels stay somewhat consistent.

[Ashaman]

Originally Posted by Kotengu

Kabuto is also my favorite villain. When I play games where I'm an evil character I hate being limited to evil actions, as the rewards for doing good stuff is usually also desirable. He's even better cuz we don't know what he really wants (aside from maybe sharingan). Once I found out Madara's plan I stopped liking him as a villain.
I do wonder how this undead army is going to work thou. Most of these ninja were unique because of their bloodlines and chakras. But there are going to be some real continuity issues at work here.
-Can corpses use bloodline jutsu?
-Can just a soul mimic all of a ninja's abilites no matter the body
-Does the advanced bushin jutsu Itachi and Kisame used work in a similar way?
Some of these things should have been hashed out more clearly like in HunterxHunter or Psyren.

The answer to the first question at least is yes. Shodai Hokage was growing a mini forest when he was rezzed with Edo during the Chunnin exams.

[Shiryuu]

Originally Posted by herculan

Thats the same thing as saying that every character could simply act on his own because the mind(the part they still have control over) is telling the body to move and kill kabuto/madara..
Because just like susano'o the body moves according to what the mind tells it to do.. But it didn't change the fact that the zombie bodies are still being controlled.. so same goes for susano'o.

Susanoo isn't a part of his body. It's a summon of some sort, which doesn't even require seals. It moves completely separate from his body and is only limited by his feet because it has no lower body.

[Sharfan]

Originally Posted by Shiryuu

A thought. Susanoo activate/moves based on Itachi's mind (at least from what I've seen). If Itachi still has his mind/emotion, couldn't he easily annihilate a lot of Madara's forces/seal most of the zombies before Kabuto manages to stop him?

That sounds very plausable, actually. The only problem inherent is, of course, that he can't bring it out, initially, on his own. My guess is that, since he can't control his own body, he probably can't control his sharingan. Meaning that he wouldn't be able to summon Susano'o.

Maybe if Kabuto either stupid enough (or smart enough?) to make Itachi use Susano'o, then Itachi might be able to turn on them.

[Frenchie]

Originally Posted by Kotengu

-Can corpses use bloodline jutsu?
-Can just a soul mimic all of a ninja's abilites no matter the body
-Does the advanced bushin jutsu Itachi and Kisame used work in a similar way?
Some of these things should have been hashed out more clearly like in HunterxHunter or Psyren.

• Yes. Shodaime Hokage during the Chuunin exams could use Mokuton no Jutsu (Earth+Water bloodline)

• Yes, Nidaime Hokage could use a powerful, trademark jutsu that plunged the enemy into complete darkness. (Rendered the Third largely helpless to either Hokage's attacks)

• Yes, though the jutsu was used by Pain, not either of them. Kisame still had incredible skill with Suiton, even without water, and Itachi still had a Sharingan that was just as potent. The only problem was that they had 30% chakra.

It's unlikely the zombies have limited chakra and on top of that, they can't be killed. That jutsu seems far superior in terms of battle-readiness, though you can't do it on people still alive and well.

[Ashaman]

Originally Posted by Frenchie

It's unlikely the zombies have limited chakra and on top of that, they can't be killed. That jutsu seems far superior in terms of battle-readiness, though you can't do it on people still alive and well.

No, I think they'll have some chakra limits. Most likely the same as when they were alive.

I find it doubtful that the zombies will have unlimited power sources

[Frenchie]

Originally Posted by Ashaman

No, I think they'll have some chakra limits. Most likely the same as when they were alive.

I find it doubtful that the zombies will have unlimited power sources

Why not? Zombies in movies are usually not only near-immortal, but they also don't -have- to sustain themselves with flesh to keep themselves going either.

[MikeyGrey]

^ thats mainly coz they are usually there for a few seconds to just look pretty (sorta). these ones are surely meant to last a bit longer. would be kinda wierd watching zombies breathing hard from exhaustion.