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Old 2014-10-16, 11:04   Link #21
Kanon
Kana Hanazawa ♥
 
 
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That was the best chapter in a very long time. Full of revelations, informations, and emotions. I loved it.

Rocinante was a really nice guy. The complete opposite of his brother. Finding out he had been working with the marines all along to stop Dofla from spreading evil was quite a shock. There's no doubt this will be the cause of his downfall, through Vergo.

We can now put the theory that Rocinante gave up his life using the Ope Ope no mi to save Law to rest, since we know now he has a completely different devil fruit. It wasn't a very solid theory in the first place given that it's been obvious for ages it was Doffy who killed him, why would Law hate Doffy so much otherwise?

It was nice to see Law warm up to his protector. The chapter where Rocinante is going to die will be a real tear-jerker, I know it.
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Old 2014-10-16, 11:20   Link #22
Slayerx
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Originally Posted by golgo13 View Post
I think he is likely not a Marine, but working with the Marines. He knows DD is an odd ball evil person and feels the marines (whom are the protectors of CDs, World Government and WG territories) are the only ones that can help expunge DD.
I think he is a marine. My guess is that after Doffy killed his father the two brothers parted ways; Roci ended up joining up with the marines while Doffy became a pirate. Doffy met with Vergo first and than afterward came Pica, Diamante and Trebol; He came up with the card suite motif and made Vergo the first Corazon. Later Roci volunteered to spy on DD for the Marines, he rejoined his brother, Doffy sent Vergo on his secret undercover mission and gave his title to Roci.
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Old 2014-10-16, 12:04   Link #23
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I just hope we get an explanation as to why there's always food on vergo's face. sticking sunny-side eggs on something is no easy feat
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Old 2014-10-16, 13:32   Link #24
grey_1960
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Chapter 764
That was really good chapter. So Rosinante (Second person to hold Corazon title) is a spy, owner of the Nagi Nagi no Mi(Silence fruit). Sengoku was Admiral and now were seeing why Law has grown to respect Rosinante. Not much about the D. except for they are a clan, scary children tales, and everything else we gathered from the actions in the past.

Spies and more Spies
There are a lot of questions. Rosinante knew about Vergo at the same time he was on his secret mission(infiltrate the Marines). Does that mean the Marines have known all along the Vergo was a pirate? If Rosinante died then that means Law is the replacement has a spy for the marines? This would make sense because Law tipped his location of Green Bit to Smoker, second if the Marines knew of Vergo’s true identity and they didn’t act, it only confirms they still had a spy (That being Law). Also Baby 5 has grown fond of Law. In the beginning she hated him and now she is giving him money to payoff Buffalo has a bribe. That action does not seem like much but remember Law was getting intel during his defection from Daflamingo was she feeding him information from the inside?

Rosinante’s Death
The question is did Rosinante die because Doflamingo found about who he was working for? Or was it another reason? The reason I ask this question is if Daflamingo found out that Rosinante is a spy, would he not have pulled Vergo out of the Marines? The fact that Rosinante did not know about Vergo’s secret mission is irrelevant to the Marines, they would have had intel and identification of everyone on the Donquixote Pirate crew. Most likely provided by Rosinante. They would have identified him on the spot. It is also does not seem like a coincident that Vergo and Admiral Sengoku are talking about a knew command station. The Marines may have known about CC, Punk Hazard, and many other things about Doflamingo. Also does Cipher Pole know about Law and Rosinante or did Admiral Sengoku keep his assets (spies and intel) within the Marines? Also what does Fleet Admiral Akainu and Admiral Fujitori know about Law or Rosinante?
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Old 2014-10-16, 13:34   Link #25
ri0
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Thanks!
As for possible reference to Infernal Affairs, this actually came up in the Japanese thread as well. I'm not familiar with the film, but there are many who feels the same way.
And yes, Rossy seems to be completely unaware of what Vergo is doing, or even that he has infiltrated the marines. That'll surely be the cause of his downfall..
Did you watch The Departed with Leonardo di Caprio and Matt Damon? This movie is based on Infernal Affairs, where the local mafia boss is having a rat in the police and vice versa. They both come to the conclusion that there must be an informant from the other side and so the mutual hunt begins.
Damn, somehow I don't want Rosinante to die... I like him pretty much! It would be interesting to see, if and how he can apply his DF in combat.


Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960
Not much about the D. except for they are a clan, scary children tales, and everything else we gathered from the actions in the past.
Although it was highly indicated to be the case, I honestly found it pretty interesting that we got a confirmation of the D's hostility towards the Tenryuubito. It also sounds like they all have a connection of some sort, which could imply some future allies for Luffy.
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Old 2014-10-16, 13:40   Link #26
khoa1708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ri0 View Post
Did you watch The Departed with Leonardo di Caprio and Matt Damon? This movie is based on Infernal Affairs, where the local mafia boss is having a rat in the police and vice versa. They both come to the conclusion that there must be an informant from the other side and so the mutual hunt begins.
Damn, somehow I don't want Rosinante to die... I like him pretty much! It would be interesting to see, if and how he can apply his DF in combat.



Although it was highly indicated to be the case, I honestly found it pretty interesting that we got a confirmation of the D's hostility towards the Tenryuubito. It also sounds like they all have a connection of some sort, which could imply some future allies for Luffy.
may I refer you to how Kaname Tōsen fought people in bleach? haha
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Old 2014-10-16, 14:28   Link #27
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by philip72 View Post
Well no, Mangapanda's translation is terrible as always.

A better translation for the use of Kami in this context, would have been "the gods" instead of "God". Olympian gods, rather than the Judeo-Christian concept.
The World Nobles are as capacious as the Greek pantheon, and Mariejoa is their Mount Olympus high above the world.
you said foxbox was wrong, but then proved his point

the D clearly stands for demon or devil in this case. i do expect there to be another meaning for D (probably an actual name) to be revealed later in the manga
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Old 2014-10-16, 14:55   Link #28
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Originally Posted by philip72 View Post
Demons weren't the adversaries of the gods, the Titans, Frost Giants, etcetera were.
So saying D stands for demon when it's obviously not a monotheistic reference is meaningless.
why are you hung up on greek/roman mythology? does it say the celestial dragons are modeled after them anywhere?
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Old 2014-10-16, 15:57   Link #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
I think he is a marine. My guess is that after Doffy killed his father the two brothers parted ways; Roci ended up joining up with the marines while Doffy became a pirate. Doffy met with Vergo first and than afterward came Pica, Diamante and Trebol; He came up with the card suite motif and made Vergo the first Corazon. Later Roci volunteered to spy on DD for the Marines, he rejoined his brother, Doffy sent Vergo on his secret undercover mission and gave his title to Roci.
Quote:
Originally Posted by philip72 View Post
No, he's definitely a Marine.
A Marine Commander as a matter of fact.

I may be wrong I was thinking he was collaborating, he even says "I am not from the marine". He could be lying and it may be vergo that reveals he is in fact a marine as part of his ultimate demise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philip72 View Post
Demons weren't the adversaries of the gods, the Titans, Frost Giants, etcetera were.
So saying D stands for demon when it's obviously not a monotheistic reference is meaningless.
D could be at the end like olD Kingdom... ok thats a long shot.. Opposite the dragon in the chinese zodiac is Dog :P Impossible to tell.

Who knows, that probably won't be revealed for a while and could be as esoteric as CC meaning Caesar Clown. What's interesting is that D's appear everywhere in the world and that they where all from the same clan and are the arch rivals of the CDs.. ammmm senju vs uchiha aham.. ok enough of the bad comparison
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Old 2014-10-16, 18:01   Link #30
Slayerx
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Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Spies and more Spies
There are a lot of questions. Rosinante knew about Vergo at the same time he was on his secret mission(infiltrate the Marines). Does that mean the Marines have known all along the Vergo was a pirate? If Rosinante died then that means Law is the replacement has a spy for the marines? This would make sense because Law tipped his location of Green Bit to Smoker, second if the Marines knew of Vergoís true identity and they didnít act, it only confirms they still had a spy (That being Law).
Actually I don't think Rosinante knows what Vergo's mission is; i think that's what he meant when he said no one knows the details of his mission. He knows he's on a secret mission but he doesn't know he's currently infiltrating the marines.

Quote:
Also Baby 5 has grown fond of Law. In the beginning she hated him and now she is giving him money to payoff Buffalo has a bribe. That action does not seem like much but remember Law was getting intel during his defection from Daflamingo was she feeding him information from the inside?
Actually i think that's just the beginning of Baby 5's tendancy to fall in love with and help any man she feels "needs her"
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Old 2014-10-16, 18:43   Link #31
ronin myael
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golgo13 View Post
I may be wrong I was thinking he was collaborating, he even says "I am not from the marine". He could be lying and it may be vergo that reveals he is in fact a marine as part of his ultimate demise.
I am not sure about this since Manga Panda's translation is unreliable but it could be that Corazon simply meant that he's not really a marine because he doesn't believe in their brand of justice, rather he became a marine to defy his brother.

This does have an Infernal Affairs/The Departed feel to it except Rocinante didn't infiltrate anything since he's already Doffy's brother.
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Old 2014-10-16, 19:39   Link #32
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I wonder how the story will turn up. How do law get his ope ope no mi? From who?
And how is Rossy 'silence' DF gonna help in a battle?
Not all DF user are use for fighting I guess
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Old 2014-10-16, 21:34   Link #33
itachi-san314
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Originally Posted by adriankhoo153 View Post
I wonder how the story will turn up. How do law get his ope ope no mi? From who?
And how is Rossy 'silence' DF gonna help in a battle?
Not all DF user are use for fighting I guess
or maybe rocinante is lying and he actually does have the ope ope fruit. the space he creates with no sound is simply 'room'
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Old 2014-10-17, 00:28   Link #34
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Nagi Nagi no Mi huh? Could be quite useful on stealth missions.
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Old 2014-10-17, 00:33   Link #35
grey_1960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Actually I don't think Rosinante knows what Vergo's mission is; i think that's what he meant when he said no one knows the details of his mission. He knows he's on a secret mission but he doesn't know he's currently infiltrating the marines.

Actually i think that's just the beginning of Baby 5's tendancy to fall in love with and help any man she feels "needs her"
^
I know i mention that fact in the quote below the one you quoted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grey_1960 View Post
Rosinante’s Death
The question is did Rosinante die because Doflamingo found about who he was working for? Or was it another reason? The reason I ask this question is if Daflamingo found out that Rosinante is a spy, would he not have pulled Vergo out of the Marines? The fact that Rosinante did not know about Vergo’s secret mission is irrelevant to the Marines, they would have had intel and identification of everyone on the Donquixote Pirate crew. Most likely provided by Rosinante. They would have identified him on the spot. It is also does not seem like a coincident that Vergo and Admiral Sengoku are talking about a knew command station. The Marines may have known about CC, Punk Hazard, and many other things about Doflamingo. Also does Cipher Pole know about Law and Rosinante or did Admiral Sengoku keep his assets (spies and intel) within the Marines? Also what does Fleet Admiral Akainu and Admiral Fujitori know about Law or Rosinante?
2+2=4
Rosinante at least knew about Vergo( the real name behind the first Corazon). Everyone(Marines and anyone on the outside) only knew the structure of of the pirate ranks in Donquixote pirate not the real names. Rosinante was spying on the Donquixote Pirate crew. So in his reports to Sengoku he would have given up the names of everyone including Vergo(the first Corazon). Sengoku is not an idiot and a person like Vergo moving up the ranks would catch the attentions of the Admiral especially if he knows that guys is suppose to be a pirate. In my opinion I think the Marines knew vergo was a pirate. All Sengoku had to do was compare his intel (from Rosinante) with the rising star(Vergo) in the Marines. The questions is why didn’t the marines act on Vergo if they knew who he was? Was it because still had a spy in Donquixote Pirates (Law is my possibility)? Was it because the black mail (truth to the National treasure Doflmingo knew about)? Is Law's plan(to ruin the deal between Kaidou and Doflamingo) really his plan or did the Marines (or Celetial Dragons) set it up to take Daflamingo down and let law be the fall guy to cover their tracks? There are still a lot of questions to be answered and who knew what and why.

Baby 5 (her tendency to fall in love)
That maybe true but that doesn’t mean Law won’t exploit that bad habit Baby 5 has. Second Law knew about the deal with Kaidou and Daflamingo, the location of Punk Hazard SAD facility, CC and many other things. Like the missing kids near G-5 jurisdiction and Vergo’s location. Wasn’t Vergo’s mission suppose to be top secret? Somebody been feeding information to Law especially when he defected. Baby 5 seems like the most obvious choice. If it is not Baby 5 then who?

Last edited by grey_1960; 2014-10-17 at 00:46.
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Old 2014-10-17, 01:09   Link #36
marvelB
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
These info-packed chapters have been really putting stress on me as I try to do these spoiler summaries at work.
No joke, past few weeks have been really harsh. I write the spoilers in both English and Japanese (for 2ch) at the same time, in busiest time of my day, and it cuts like an hour into it... some weeks I simply can't.


Well, you know I always appreciate your efforts, Aohige! Heck, I put way more trust in your summaries than those (often crappy) early scan folks!


-------

Anyways.... I find it interesting that Doflamingo was wary of old lady Tsuru this chapter. In retrospect, I find it all the more curious that he was all too glad to literally puppeteer a couple of VAs right in front of her during that shichibukai meeting several years later (referring to chapter 234 here, specifically). Perhaps he wasn't strong enough to oppose VA-rank marines at the time of this flashback....?


And going back to the D=Devil thing, as I said previously, it would make sense if that were how the nobles interpreted the initial (and that's also putting into consideration that Oda actually intends to use the English "devil" here.... because there is no Japanese word for demon/devil starting with a D as far as I know). Personally, I think the D has an entirely different meaning here. What that meaning is, I can't really say (I doubt it's something as corny as "Destiny", though.....


And another thing to consider: If those of the D clan are considered to be such a threat to the WG, then why were two of them even allowed to join the marines, and even able to achieve fairly high ranks at that (Monkey D. Garp, Jaguar D. Saul)?
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Old 2014-10-17, 02:19   Link #37
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
And another thing to consider: If those of the D clan are considered to be such a threat to the WG, then why were two of them even allowed to join the marines, and even able to achieve fairly high ranks at that (Monkey D. Garp, Jaguar D. Saul)?
I thought about that too! But perhaps the World Government would rather have the Ds come out in the open than have them hiding. If they join the marines, they can be controlled and observed. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer so to speak.
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Old 2014-10-17, 08:59   Link #38
golgo13
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Originally Posted by ronin myael View Post
I am not sure about this since Manga Panda's translation is unreliable but it could be that Corazon simply meant that he's not really a marine because he doesn't believe in their brand of justice, rather he became a marine to defy his brother.

This does have an Infernal Affairs/The Departed feel to it except Rocinante didn't infiltrate anything since he's already Doffy's brother.
Yep that's true, the translations could be off. We'll see. I am still in the he isn't a traditional Marine camp until we learn more.

A lot of times when Luffy fights he gets to a point where he is near death or needs some kind of boost (nightmare luffy, doru doru candle armor, gear 2/3 etc...) to defeat the enemy. What do people think about how Luffy with beat DD? Will it be a team effort? I wonder if Law will perform another life saving operation on Luffy with danger to his own person.
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Old 2014-10-17, 09:51   Link #39
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Originally Posted by ronin myael View Post
I thought about that too! But perhaps the World Government would rather have the Ds come out in the open than have them hiding. If they join the marines, they can be controlled and observed. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer so to speak.

Well, that could be true, but I never really had that particular impression. I mean, even in Saul's case it really seemed more like he was punished for siding with Robin's mother more than the fact that he was a D. And it's even been implied that Garp was given a lot of leeway despite him being a bit rebellious himself (case in point: He wasn't punished for allowing Luffy to escape from Water 7 OR Marineford).

And heck, let's not forget that Blackbeard was a shichibukai for a brief point, despite being a D (albeit one who was pretty much unknown at the time). And wasn't Ace even offered that position at one point before he joined Whitebeard? It really seems to me that the WG will only punish the "D"s who either directly oppose the government (ie Dragon, Luffy to an extent, maybe Roger too), or those whom they deem a potential threat because of a particular lineage (Ace). That being said, I really have to wonder if the WG would have went out of their way to annihilate Law's family if they knew of their lineage at the time of the current flashback (and if so, would the Flevance massacre have been an excuse to wipe them out).....?



Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Yami~ View Post
seems like Baby 5 has a crush on Law

Y'know, I missed this post earlier, but seeing it now, I just have to wonder: On the off chance that she really did have a crush on Law at the time, would B5 harbor those same feelings in the present time considering that her old "squeeze" decapitated both her and Buffalo, and left their headless bodies to the marines to mop up?
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Old 2014-10-17, 11:15   Link #40
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New theory: Vergo gets dispatched to deal with Flevance survivor reports on behalf of WG.
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