Saenai Heroine no Sodatekata/How to Train the Ordinary Girl to be a Heroine [LN]

[Miraluka]

Kinda agree with you Raymond(backing up arguments rather than going the tangent).

[bakato]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Totally not my point.

And there's more of that hating......

From what I understand, the problem that split the group up is that Tomoya skipped out on work for the group to care for Eriri while she was sick, essentially boiling down to not seperated work from personal stuff? Skipping out on the work, not good, sure. But all this venomous hatred for him? Especially when the reason he skipped out on work was to help a friend, rather than something actually selfish? The way you and others describe this is as some massive betrayal and lack of respect or care for his friends. This is registering as rabid otaku-ism to me.

Did you not read the summary on the blog?

Iori remarks just what a circle formed by a bunch of high school students for fun thinks they are doing. Tomoya says they are not fooling around, prompting Iori to ask him why he's going to Nasu and not staying at home finishing up the game if he's serious about his circle. Iori wonders why Tomoya is giving up in the very end. Tomoya says it can't be helped since Eriri is sick. Iori asks Tomoya why he didn't choose the best solution - saving both the game and Eriri, by asking someone else to go to Nasu. Tomoya says it's because Eriri is in a lot of pain right now. Iori again tells Tomoya that he should just let the other members take care of Eriri. Tomoya says he can't trouble the others. He thinks to himself that he can't ask Utaha because of her and Eriri's mutual dislike for each other, and Michiru is no good either because Eriri doesn't like her. He doesn't want to trouble Megumi because he's always pushed and dragged her around. Iori however points out that Tomoya really just wants to hoard Eriri all to himself. Tomoya is stunned by Iori's statement and unable to refute him.

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Honestly, I think it's kind of silly that there's blame to assign, or that there's anything for blame to be assigned for at all. Breaking up the circle because Tomoya shirked some work to help a friend and their own fellow circle member feels.........overdramatic. Calling what Tomoya did a betrayal of anything is an exaggeration and the girls leaving the circle because of it feels like overeaction, and a bit forced. It's not ven like this happened over an actual act of selfishness or anything. And if Megumi really did say that she would have done the same thing, that makes this drama all the more silly.

Originally Posted by dragon1412

^^ you do realized they are talking about 2MB+ script, over 30 music tracks and more than 100 CGs right, that things would beat 80% of the games that's are currently on sale.

Overdramatic? Is that what you call it when he abandoned the goal they strove over six months and seven volumes for just to keep a girl to himself? This wasn't just some game and it was never about profit. This was a record, a memory, of all their passion, blood, sweat, tears, time, relationships, and all those flaming hoops they jumped through. True. The girls may have been more interested in Tomoya than the game itself, but he rallied them and infected them with his passion. He led them, but when it came down to the wire he just threw it all the way. All that and he threw it away when he didn't have to.

By the way, the blogger made another post called Modern Meat translating the drama CD.

[RaymondSageClark]

Well, the LN is pretty clear about the relationships between the characters, second thoughts about it are not allowed.

Also one thing some pleople don't get it, the main point of this LN is personal growth learning from mistakes, maturing through them. This is why the author use someone like Tomoya as MC and the girls are the ones who move the gears of his life, causing the changes on him.

[vivaldi_in_tropical]

uwaah it's become heated talk....

anyway

haven't read the ln and just following the translated manga and i think megumi on the manga and the anime is a slightly different. well the manga state that megumi is so much plain girl but her tsukkomi is quite good (her punchline and face reaction was good) whereas the anime one she is more expressionless when she is talking.

[Shinji103]

bakato: Wow, reviving a dead argument much?

But I will just say this: breaking up the circle over this feels overdramatic no matter how you put it. Tomoya's going to help Eriri when she was sick wasn't selfish nor deplorable no matter how anybody tries to spin it to try and justify their hate for him, supported by the fact that others in the cast agree they would've done the same thing, which makes all the venomous hate people are spewing at him over it just as overdramatic.

And with that I drop this. (again apparently, as some people just don't seem content in letting it go, just another case of haters speaking louder than others I guess *shrug*)

[Miraluka]

When the argument fails, calling others haters is what it's left .

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

bakato: Wow, reviving a dead argument much?

But I will just say this: breaking up the circle over this feels overdramatic no matter how you put it. Tomoya's going to help Eriri when she was sick wasn't selfish nor deplorable no matter how anybody tries to spin it to try and justify their hate for him, supported by the fact that others in the cast agree they would've done the same thing, which makes all the venomous hate people are spewing at him over it just as overdramatic.

And with that I drop this. (again apparently, as some people just don't seem content in letting it go, just another case of haters speaking louder than others I guess *shrug*)

the problem was never because he cared for her, none of us here said that he is wrong because of that, what he done wrongs is that there are better alternatives he could have chosen to get both the game and Eiriri, but the point is, he choose to give up on the game, that's it.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

the problem was never because he cared for her, none of us here said that he is wrong because of that, what he done wrongs is that there are better alternatives he could have chosen to get both the game and Eiriri, but the point is, he choose to give up on the game, that's it.

That's not even my point.
I said right at the beginning that strictly speaking of skipping work on the game, it's his fault. My point, however, is that all the blame and hate he gets for this is overblown.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

That's not even my point.
I said right at the beginning that strictly speaking of skipping work on the game, it's his fault. My point, however, is that all the blame and hate he gets for this is overblown.

not really, it might not seem apparents, but 2mb+ script alone should be around 200 pages worth of text based on my experiences with writing thesis, and this is the script alone. Now, what he done is no different than throwing away all the works over that period of times. If you are working in a team, do you honestly believe that your teammate would let you off easily ???

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

not really, it might not seem apparents, but 2mb+ script alone should be around 200 pages worth of text based on my experiences with writing thesis, and this is the script alone. Now, what he done is no different than throwing away all the works over that period of times. If you are working in a team, do you honestly believe that your teammate would let you off easily ???

Considering that nothing he did was selfish nor deplorable? I absolutely think the hate he gets from the readers is overboard. Calling it "throwing it all away," especially over the non-selfish reasons he did it, is the kind of overboard reaction I'm talking about. He may have abandoned the work, but the reasons he did it were purely caring and considerate. If anybody can hate on him for that, than honestly, I'm glad I don't have to worry about needing those people to ever help me out.
And considering Megumi said she'd probably have done the same thing, I'd say at least some of his team aren't holding it against him either.

[dragon1412]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

Considering that nothing he did was selfish nor deplorable? I absolutely think the hate he gets from the readers is overboard. Calling it "throwing it all away," especially over the non-selfish reasons he did it, is the kind of overboard reaction I'm talking about. He may have abandoned the work, but the reasons he did it were purely caring and considerate. If anybody can hate on him for that, than honestly, I'm glad I don't have to worry about needing those people to ever help me out.
And considering Megumi said she'd probably have done the same thing, I'd say at least some of his team aren't holding it against him either.

Like i said, the problem here is, there exist a way to save both the work and the girl together, and everyone can thinks of that method, and that method is extremely feasible, however, he still choose to abandoned it. If he was truly that caring and considerate, he would have picked the option that save both

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by dragon1412

Like i said, the problem here is, there exist a way to save both the work and the girl together, and everyone can thinks of that method, and that method is extremely feasible, however, he still choose to abandoned it. If he was truly that caring and considerate, he would have picked the option that save both

So what was that option then? If it was so feasible and more caring and considerate, than why didn't he go with it?
If that method really is so caring, considerate, and entirely feasible, yet he still didn't go with it, then honestly I'd call that forced writing before blaming Tomoya. It kes no sense that one would go for the less-optimal option when there's a better option that's feasible.

[Soraya21]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

So what was that option then? If it was so feasible and more caring and considerate, than why didn't he go with it?
If that method really is so caring, considerate, and entirely feasible, yet he still didn't go with it, then honestly I'd call that forced writing before blaming Tomoya. It kes no sense that one would go for the less-optimal option when there's a better option that's feasible.

This is exactly the conversation Iori had with Tomoya during their car ride to the mansion, about choosing the best option to in order to accomplish both goals. There was no rational reason for him to go himself, especially when he had his own obligations to finish up his share of the workload. Any one of the other club members could have gone in his place to nurse Eriri back to health, because at that point they're all friends.

Simply put, it wasn't wrong of Tomoya to choose Eriri over the game. However, he didn't even need to in that situation. And the way he went about doing it shows his lack of faith, trust and simple understanding/consideration for all the other members involved. Between Megumi whom he didn't consult with despite her willingness to check up on her friend, or omitting out Utaha & Michiru as a possible aid option just because he 'thinks' the three girls don't get along. He even does a discourtesy to Eriri by giving up without a fight, even though she had worked herself into illness in order to meet the deadline.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Soraya21

This is exactly the conversation Iori had with Tomoya during their car ride to the mansion, about choosing the best option to in order to accomplish both goals. There was no rational reason for him to go himself, especially when he had his own obligations to finish up his share of the workload. Any one of the other club members could have gone in his place to nurse Eriri back to health, because at that point they're all friends.

Simply put, it wasn't wrong of Tomoya to choose Eriri over the game. However, he didn't even need to in that situation. And the way he went about doing it shows his lack of faith, trust and simple understanding/consideration for all the other members involved. Between Megumi whom he didn't consult with despite her willingness to check up on her friend, or omitting out Utaha & Michiru as a possible aid option just because he 'thinks' the three girls don't get along. He even does a discourtesy to Eriri by giving up without a fight, even though she had worked herself into illness in order to meet the deadline.

Sounds like more of a misunderstanding on his part than an outright lack of faith and trust. It would make sense that he'd choose to go himself over one of the other girls going if he thought they didn't get along.
It just doesn't register for me as the kind of "betrayal/distrust" that would cause such a dramatic breakup of the group. I'm just not feeling it.

[ReinZwei]

Just to inform you guys, translation was moved to Nanodesu but still translated by Steel (nakedsol), as of now chapter 0-1 have been re edited.

Hoping the translation progress will now be in a better pace

[larvyde]

Ah, I have the first couple chapters from volume 5.. doushiyou...

[endarion88]

season 2 also seems to have been annunced so haters rejoice you will have the mc in deep shit animated!

[evilgenius]

well i hope he ends with megumi or other girl and not with utaha and eriri, but i guess there is still a lot of drama in store

[RaymondSageClark]

^you mean "forced" drama.

[evilgenius]

my bad ''forced drama'' it is