Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by Charred Knight

Three out of four where won by Seed, and Seed Destiny, Gundam Seed Destiny won the Anime Grand Prix twice. Fukuda holds the record for Director with the most Anime Grand Prix wins with Hayao Miyazaki and Hideaki Anno.

Prolly because they were voted by the people, which, IMO, is as valuable as the People's Choice Awards.

If the people were allowed to vote in the Oscars, then I can see any of the scenarios:

• Best case: Pulp Fiction wins the 1994 Best Picture award instead of Forrest Gump
• Worst case: It would be a fight between the Twilight films and the Transformers films for Best Picture

Also, most popular doesn't necessarily mean it's of better quality, in terms of critical reception.

[aeriolewinters]

Originally Posted by Gundamx

Who said he don't have any melee weapon?
What about launcher kick and launcher punch?
(Yeah I know..... bad joke... but is it me or should they made Kira super robot pilot in SRWs game?)

Also, wait til Kira uses the Aile in this terrain

[monster]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

Prolly because they were voted by the people, which, IMO, is as valuable as the People's Choice Awards.

If the people were allowed to vote in the Oscars, then I can see any of the scenarios:

• Best case: Pulp Fiction wins the 1994 Best Picture award instead of Forrest Gump
• Worst case: It would be a fight between the Twilight films and the Transformers films for Best Picture

Also, most popular doesn't necessarily mean it's of better quality, in terms of critical reception.

Speaking of old post:

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

I know it's popular among Japanese audiences, but how well was it received among professional critics in Japan (i.e., the Japanese equivalent of Roger Ebert, Leonard Maltin, etc.)?

Does it matter? Between the Japanese audience and professional critics, who watch the series and/or buy the merchandise in enough numbers to make Sunrise/Bandai just a little money?

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by monster

Speaking of old post: Does it matter? Between the Japanese audience and professional critics, who watch the series and/or buy the merchandise in enough numbers to make Sunrise/Bandai just a little money?

I'm now beginning to think that a more apt comparison about Seed's popularity/reception would be Michael Bay's Transformers films, as well as Schumacher's Batman films.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

I'm now beginning to think that a more apt comparison about Seed's popularity/reception would be Michael Bay's Transformers films, as well as Schumacher's Batman films.

More apt compared to what? And why do you feel the need to compare in the first place?

[Rising Dragon]

Kinda wondering that myself. All Washu ever seems to do is compare SEED to old Batman movies and pro-wrestling.

[Washu-Chan]

My point is:

Seed/GSD are essentially "critic proof": they both are very popular among the Japanese audience, but I don't know how the professional critics in Japan receive them.

Following the sequel rule, most of the time, the sequel won't be able to exceed the original's success, in terms of critical reception, but still financially (e.g., GSD, the second Transformers movie).


However, there are some exceptions (e.g., Zeta Gundam).

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

My point is:

Seed/GSD are essentially "critic proof": they both are very popular among the Japanese audience, but I don't know how the professional critics in Japan receive them.

Seed won a whole bunch of "best TV anime" awards when it came out, so it was definitely well received critically

[kaito-kid]

Oh no! Not shit s*it again..

I'll point this out for the last fu*king time.. Seed was really well received by everyone. Kids, teens, old people, people who never watch anime, Tomino and yes, even the top critics! Yeah, I know it sucks, get over it!

If I remember correctly it won several big awards like the Animation Kobe Awards and Tokyo Anime Award for anime of the year (2004). The last one is pretty big as the judge are selected from famous anime staffs, producers and professors from art schools.

So no, it not like Batman Forever. It's more like The Dark Knight, A critical and financial success.

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

Tomino

Tomino doesn't like SEED. In fact he was racy enough to proclaim his hate of the franchise during the SEED Destiny launch event, took all the wits of Furuya Tohru and Ikeda Shuichi to turn the event around on a light note.

But he also hates everything, so that's normal for him.

[JediNight]

Is someone in here seriously trying to argue that Fukuda is a good director? ..........

orz

SEED generally gets fairly positive remarks from people. It had its issues, but it was pretty good. I liked it.

Destiny though is almost universally reviled from a critical standpoint. Almost the entire scenario was a trainwreck from start to finish. I would say the only saving grace of the show was around the first 8-10 episodes of base plot with the asteriod drop. Especially the character writing was atrocious. None of the main characters from SEED should have been a major focus in Destiny. Much like how in Zeta (which Destiny was modeled after) you had Char/Amuro around, but they played minor background roles in only part of the story. While in Destiny they tried to keep them a focus despite having their character development reach a logical plateau at the end of SEED. His solution was to basically character assassinate Cagalli and Athrun. Cagalli not only forgets all she learned in Seed, but even some stuff she knew going into Seed. Athrun goes back to the self-doubting guy he was at the start of Seed. Shinn is a Kamille clone that never got his requisite Bright Slap. So he stayed the whiny impetuous brat all 50 episodes.

IMHO Destiny sold on the backs of fujoshi shipping, thats about it. Anyone know what the per-volume sales were for some of the later volumes? I'd be surprised if there wasn't a steep drop off.

[brightman]

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

I'll point this out for the last fu*king time.. Seed was really well received by everyone. Kids, teens, old people, people who never watch anime, Tomino and yes, even the top critics! Yeah, I know it sucks, get over it!

There was one group that hated it though, and that was the long-term Japanese Gundam fans (be they UC or AU fans)... Plenty of documentation on that in the old Gunota blog.

[kaito-kid]

Tomino doesn't like SEED. In fact he was racy enough to proclaim his hate of the franchise during the SEED Destiny launch event, took all the wits of Furuya Tohru and Ikeda Shuichi to turn the event around on a light note.

I was just kidding, but secretly I was hoping someone would take the bate. And you did.

And now I would like to ask you where you get this shit from? Cos I just made that up for the lulz. And I have no idea what Tomino thinks of Seed, as I don't really care what he thinks of anything really. But you seem to know it for a fact that Tomino hates Seed. Where did you get this from?

Is someone in here seriously trying to argue that Fukuda is a good director? ..........

A directer is responsible for a lot of stuff. Some of those things he did really well and some really bad, overall he is pretty decent. His wife is kind of the same story. Some of her writing is really good (e.g Seed), But some of her other works (e.g Destiny), well...

IMHO Destiny sold on the backs of fujoshi shipping, thats about it. Anyone know what the per-volume sales were for some of the later volumes? I'd be surprised if there wasn't a steep drop off.

It's downright impossible for Destiny to have enjoyed the kind of success it did with just shipping.. It dosent work like that. And keep in mind that financially it was an even bigger success than Seed.

There was one group that hated it though, and that was the long-term Japanese Gundam fans (be they UC or AU fans)... Plenty of documentation on that in the old Gunota blog.

I am aware of that and It kind of confuses me. How can the same groupe have such an impact now with Age? Back in the Seed days no one gave a shit about their whining, so how came they have such an big voice now? Did the broad Seed fanbase simply made them look like dwarfs?

[brightman]

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

I am aware of that and It kind of confuses me. How can the same groupe have such an impact now with Age? Back in the Seed days no one gave a shit about their whining, so how came they have such an big voice now? Did the broad Seed fanbase simply made them look like dwarfs?

I think they did try to pander to that group with Seed Destiny due to the negative reaction (with the Zakus and Goufs and Doms). But I think you are correct, Seed simply had too much momentum going for it.

Neither 00 or AGE could get past the critiques though.

[monster]

I still feel sorry for Sai, but I don't really blame Kira for doing what he did anymore.

But my biggest regret rewatching this episode is in knowing that Kira and Cagalli was not meant to be even after Flay's death. I still think they could've had something special if it wasn't for the twin plot. In fact, it would've made Destiny's wedding crash even better for me.

[aeriolewinters]

So Much Epic Wincest this ep. Say, does anyone have a screenshot of Via Hibiki on ep 14?

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

So no, it not like Batman Forever. It's more like The Dark Knight, A critical and financial success.

That's an insult to The Dark Knight!

And that coming from someone who thinks that The Dark Knight, while great, is a bit overrated.

BTW, Batman '89 is still my favorite Batman movie.

Back on topic, I've been wondering why they didn't continue the Shinn-Kira feud at the end, and instead went for Kira-Rey.

I've been thinking that as of Final Plus, Kira was able to forgive Shinn, but I don't know if the opposite is true, though.

[Gundamx]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

That's an insult to The Dark Knight!

And that coming from someone who thinks that The Dark Knight, while great, is a bit overrated.

BTW, Batman '89 is still my favorite Batman movie.

Back on topic, I've been wondering why they didn't continue the Shinn-Kira feud at the end, and instead went for Kira-Rey.

I've been thinking that as of Final Plus, Kira was able to forgive Shinn, but I don't know if the opposite is true, though.

To give it more impact? And to let him feel wrong...
But if it was Kira it will be just another lose for Shin... From Freedom(He don't even know Kira)
Which will let him rage even more instead of cooling down.

[kaito-kid]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

That's an insult to The Dark Knight!

And that coming from someone who thinks that The Dark Knight, while great, is a bit overrated.

BTW, Batman '89 is still my favorite Batman movie.

You just took what I said out of context to make an unrelated and stupid point.. What are you? Fox news??

@brightman:
I think you are right. Seed did try to win over the old Gundam fans, but they did this in a rather subtle manner. It seems that Fukuda and his staff weren't that bothered. I find it remarkable that a well respected director like Mr. Mizushima could be so troubled by this group and I'm not sure why.. At least from what I've heard.

On a different note, what was it like before Seed with shows like X and Tun A that had similar problems like Age?

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

On a different note, what was it like before Seed with shows like X and Tun A that had similar problems like Age?

As for Turn A, Turn A's design had a... mixed reception among Gundam fans, because it was a break from the traditional Gundam design (designed by Syd Mead).

In its original broadcast, Gundam X was going against (reruns of) Evangelion. We all knew how it turned out.

Since Bandai acquired Sunrise in 1994, in the eyes of Bandai's executives, a Gundam franchise is considered a success if their Gunpla sells a lot.