(L+CR) Darling in the Franxx

[Sinestra]

This was actually a very powerful episode. The adults seem to have concept of feeling as the kids really are just tools a means to an end. The torture they put zero two through to test her healing ability was beyond cruel. No wonder she acts the way she does. I knew that the two had a connection but i could not have fathom they met before. Hiro accepted her in her true form and the color of blood have real symbolism

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I was more moved by Violet myself, and even more so by SoraYori. This whole episode just felt like more of the same thing when it comes to Hiro and the kind of relationships he builds with the people around him. He's the super nice guy who does nice things for others and they all put him on a pedestal forever. We saw this with Ichigo and Mitsuru. Zero 2 is the same. There's nothing interesting about this sort of dynamic, at least to me. It's the sort of thing you find in your average LN and no matter how hard the show tries to sell it, it comes across as flat to me.

But that's just me. Sales skyrocketed after this episode so at least the Japanese like it.

Would you rather it be a "Everyone Dies" Anime? :P

[Top Sergeant]

Ep 13 was outstanding. I lost track of all the tie-ins with the previous 12 episodes. I am really interested in seeing what 02 does at the beginning of the next week, how she is going to behave toward Hiro, and what ramifications there are going to be from the observation team.

[Dengar]

Am I the only one who wonders why people are gushing over this episode? Every minute I'm like, "Is this supposed to make me feel something for the demon girl?". I do like the show as a whole but I don't feel quite right with the way it seems to say "having a shitty past makes it okay to be a bad person who treats people like shit and uses and kills people without any remorse, and treats your 'darling' like an object".

[RDNexus]

Well, maybe because the events of her past made her "go" on a "crusade" to find her Darling, with tragic results both to her previous partners and her own reputation.
Knowing someone's background may help (or not) to build an understanding of that someone's circunstances and/or even come to relate with him/her...I guess...?

Well, at least I've never seen her as a "harlot", as you call her, but that's just me

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Am I the only one who wonders why people are gushing over this episode? Every minute I'm like, "Is this supposed to make me feel something for the demon girl?". I do like the show as a whole but I don't feel quite right with the way it seems to say "having a shitty past makes it okay to be a bad person who treats people like shit and uses and kills people without any remorse, and treats your 'darling' like an object".

I don't think it says that. Treating people like objects is what the adults do, and they don't look like we're supposed to like them. Zero Two is herself a victim. Sure, she ended up being part of that system, but just because that's literally how she's been raised to be. Acting the way she does is the only limited form of rebellion she can afford, however misguided it is. And it's not like anyone told her "no, look, this is wrong, you should not get in a cockpit with someone ever again". They kept throwing partners at her because they wanted their little experiment to give results, and those guys were just expendable fodder. Treating people like objects might have been her only way to preserve (part of) her sanity.

We're talking people who have been abusing her and torturing her from day one, and who can erase and possibly rewrite her memories. I wouldn't hold someone who grew up in those conditions too responsible for their actions if they turn out a bit fucked up as a result of all that meddling.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Am I the only one who wonders why people are gushing over this episode? Every minute I'm like, "Is this supposed to make me feel something for the demon girl?". I do like the show as a whole but I don't feel quite right with the way it seems to say "having a shitty past makes it okay to be a bad person who treats people like shit and uses and kills people without any remorse, and treats your 'darling' like an object".

What, so her faults now retroactively make her little girl self unworthy of empathy?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Kyero Fox

Would you rather it be a "Everyone Dies" Anime? :P

No. And honestly I've no idea what you're talking a bout.

Originally Posted by Dengar

Am I the only one who wonders why people are gushing over this episode? Every minute I'm like, "Is this supposed to make me feel something for the demon girl?". I do like the show as a whole but I don't feel quite right with the way it seems to say "having a shitty past makes it okay to be a bad person who treats people like shit and uses and kills people without any remorse, and treats your 'darling' like an object".

No but my reason is simply that the relationship between Hiro and 02 isn't compelling enough to feel emotional.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Dengar

Am I the only one who wonders why people are gushing over this episode? Every minute I'm like, "Is this supposed to make me feel something for the demon girl?". I do like the show as a whole but I don't feel quite right with the way it seems to say "having a shitty past makes it okay to be a bad person who treats people like shit and uses and kills people without any remorse, and treats your 'darling' like an object".

Anh Minh above pretty much nailed it. 02's current self might be bitchy to some people, but her little-girl self was innocent and worth the empathy during the flashback. This is why I have no problem siding with Anakin Skywalker in Star Wars Ep.1 coz he was just an innocent slave kid in that movie and the ones he was fighting were space-dicks and their expensive droids (even though my cynical self also have no problem siding with Darth Vader at the height of his career ).

[Sakuratsuki]

02 was brought up in horrible situations, she didn't learn love and people around her didn't show her love. Except for the Shadow. What do you expect that such a person would have a very good and loving attitude towards others? To me it sounds like people just hate her even if there is no reason for it.

[Master Chibi]

Honestly, I don't care for most of the cast in this show, or the setting, or the whole plot either. How they pilot the mechs is dumb, having the mouth move outside of the mech as they talk is dumb, the mech designs are dumb, I mean it's stupidity across the board.

This back story though? I'm fine with it. HONESTLY, IF IT WERE ME, I would literally kill everyone involved. The adults, everyone in the garden, free the kids, some kids next door shit. That's not going to happen though. Ah well.

[shadow1296]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

Honestly, I don't care for most of the cast in this show, or the setting, or the whole plot either. How they pilot the mechs is dumb, having the mouth move outside of the mech as they talk is dumb, the mech designs are dumb, I mean it's stupidity across the board.

This back story though? I'm fine with it. HONESTLY, IF IT WERE ME, I would literally kill everyone involved. The adults, everyone in the garden, free the kids, some kids next door shit. That's not going to happen though. Ah well.

okay? if it is that bad of a show for you, why are you still watching?

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Master Chibi

Honestly, I don't care for most of the cast in this show, or the setting, or the whole plot either. How they pilot the mechs is dumb, having the mouth move outside of the mech as they talk is dumb, the mech designs are dumb, I mean it's stupidity across the board.

Next thing you're going to tell me that the humanoid shape is AWFUL for armoured combat, and obviously tanks are a much more sensible option ...

A lot of that is just stylistic flourishes. It's not like the show is exactly meant to be hyper-realistic... TTGL had mechas with expressions and moving mouths too. Sure, it makes no sense that they would literally build them that way, but it makes a lot of sense to make them more expressive in animation to make the scenes more dynamic and interesting to look at.

Also when the Franxx turn on there's something that goes over their faces looking a bit like a holographic display, so if the faces/mouths are simple displays, that makes a lot more sense.

[Dengar]

I acknowledge that past 02 didn't deserve any of the shit she got. However the show is desperately trying to make me forgive present 02, which just won't happen as long as she doesn't show any redeeming qualities in the present day. Re: The Star Wars analogy: Star Wars always tries to sell Darth Vader as "was once a good person", not "is a good person".

Idk who's been throwing shit at the show though? I actually like the show. I just do not like this one aspect of it where it continues to try to make me care about someone who has done very little to make me want to care.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I acknowledge that past 02 didn't deserve any of the shit she got. However the show is desperately trying to make me forgive present 02, which just won't happen as long as she doesn't show any redeeming qualities in the present day. Re: The Star Wars analogy. Star Wars always tries to sell Darth Vader as "was once a good person", not "is a good person".

Zero Two isn't nearly as bad as Vader though, even in the present... the reason why she's lashing out at Hiro now is clearly because she's going through some kind of depressive episode, due to her sense of loss of her own humanity. Vader is a fucking evil genocidal monster. Zero Two, realistically, is mentally unstable (possibly ill) due to her history of heavy abuse. Her "throwing away" partners was never her choice, they would have forced it on her anyway. Of course she got desensitised. Had she to feel the full brunt of her guilt for each of them, she'd have killed herself by now.

[Dengar]

I will not deny what you said. Doesn't make it right though. I will never deny 02 her own agency. And as long as she has agency, she has responsibility.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I will not deny what you said. Doesn't make it right though. I will never deny 02 her own agency. And as long as she has agency, she has responsibility.

Yeah, but all her responsibility boils down to "oh, she acts tough and says some hurtful words to Hiro and doesn't show any concern about the partners who were ordered to couple with her and died as a result of the interaction with her biology she has no control over". That's... not much, certainly not enough to write her off together with someone like Vader. She's definitely redeemable, and in fact I imagine that's the arc her character is going to take (with recent episodes having been somewhat of a set-back, but the last shot of the last one, with her and Hiro crying together over their shared memories, hopefully marking a turning point).

To use her agency here would have meant to rebel outright against authority. She couldn't do that alone, except for those continuous small acts of insubordination she pulled off from Day 1 (bitching about a bath, sneaking up where she wasn't supposed to go, etc.). Now she has at least one ally in Hiro and potentially a giant robot they can commandeer if it comes to that. So if we're to see some rebellion from her, this second half is where it'll come.

[Dengar]

I see no reason to believe that she devoured her previous stamens against her own will though. I see no reason she could not have chosen not to. The scene with Mitsuru all but proves that drinking them dry is something she does of her own will and isn't actually necessary.


Anyway, it's fine. The rest of the show is fine. It's just this one thing I don't like.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I see no reason to believe that she devoured her previous stamens against her own will though. I see no reason she could not have chosen not to. The scene with Mitsuru all but proves that drinking them dry is something she does of her own will and isn't actually necessary.

The scene with Mitsuru doesn't prove anything. She was pissed off by his cockiness and the fact he was dissing Hiro, so she tried to teach him a lesson by using her full power, but this in no way proves she's killing her partners of her own will. She used to fight on the frontlines, she obviously had to face Klaxosaurs stronger than the weaklings she fought with Mitsuru, so she had no choice but to go all out and/or to fight for a longer time.

And nothing proves Mitsuru would have lasted more than three rides even with her holding back, since he was already sweating a lot before she went all out.

If Dr. Franxx knew she had a way to keep her partners alive for a longer time, he would have forced her to do it. I don't think he and APE are all that happy about losing so many stamens, since it takes resources and time to train them.

[kari-no-sugata II]

The APE council have certainly indicated that they have little/no concern about how many "stamen" they need to burn through to keep 02 piloting. We've not seen how life was for 02 once she started piloting but I wouldn't be surprised if she was brought up to consider her partners to be expendable. I also wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't given much choice but to pilot.

I dunno if any of the stamen who piloted with her previously had much choice or knew what they were getting into. However, we do know that the children are brought up to "die for the cause". I wouldn't be surprised if many of her previous partners thought it was better to go out in a blaze of glory than the alternatives, but who knows. With regards to the load/burden placed on them, my impression that the death after three rides thing is a maximum - ie death could occur earlier. From what we've seen with Mitsuru and Hiro it looks like the stamen always faces a heavy burden whether 02 likes it or not. After all, Hiro was in bad shape after two fairly brief experiences.