(L) Dragon Ball Super

[Gintokifan22]

Originally Posted by GDB

So... how did Gohan lose exactly? He didn't land in the water (unless I missed it and a wave tapped his nose or something stupid), and Krillin technically cheated the rules by flying in the first place.

Well, Gohan lost due to underestimating Krillin power, it wasn't due to what some fans are assuming without reading subs

He better learn not to underestimate his opponents strength or attacks, that could get the better of him, he's smart though so I assume he knows better now. However, I hate when these writers write characters out of character, Gohan should know not to do that with a friend who's saved his life a lot in his early days. I did love that bonding moment the two had at the end, hopefully we get more Gohan X Krillin moments in this thing

Hope T.N's been working on some thing new, his old attack got upgraded by an old friend of his, it'd be lame if they just let T.N use the same only weaker one in this tournament.

Wonder how Piccolo will do? I have a feeling he will see through Gohan's lie, he knows Gohan too well to buy that

Even 18 was getting suspicious, she's so smart

When every one finds out oh boy, I hope they get pissed at Goku for this.

That ending man, way better than last one. Why choose a Bulma theme though? I get where they going with this but doesn't make sense with this arc.

Loved seeing Gohan fly with Goku and Vegeta like that in one scene, than him blocking Piccolo Eeek!! Gives us Gohan fans major hopes

Also, is his bang back? LOLz, what is that part of his mystic power up or some thing?

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by GDB

So... how did Gohan lose exactly? He didn't land in the water (unless I missed it and a wave tapped his nose or something stupid), and Krillin technically cheated the rules by flying in the first place.

krilin did'nt fly he just "jump" or did the classic levitate jump shounen troop, while gohan used his fly to not "land" in water, that is when he lost, cuz while jump is not forbiden, fly is, that is why he lost to krilin and honestly based on how krilin was strong to even be able to hold a little goku blue then i really could see krilin wins against gohan, since now krilin is tecnically on par with goku SS 1.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Gintokifan22

Well, Gohan lost due to underestimating Krillin power, it wasn't due to what some fans are assuming without reading subs

Doesn't... really answer my question. You basically just said he lost because he lost.

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

krilin did'nt fly he just "jump" or did the classic levitate jump shounen troop, while gohan used his fly to not "land" in water, that is when he lost, cuz while jump is not forbiden, fly is, that is why he lost to krilin and honestly based on how krilin was strong to even be able to hold a little goku blue then i really could see krilin wins against gohan, since now krilin is tecnically on par with goku SS 1.

Jumping involves up and down. Krillin went up, and then didn't come down while he used his technique. Then continued to not come down as he powered up his technique. Only THEN did he come down.

[Gan_HOPE326]

I stand by the theory that what the Grand Priest said meant that flying was forbidden OUT of bounds - in other words once you pass the boundary, you're out, no matter whether you touch the ground (that in the actual Tournament won't even exist, as they'll be suspended in a vacuum) or not. Otherwise, with everyone knowing how to fly, there would be no end to this. So Gohan lost because he had to fly to stop himself from hitting the sea outside of the bounds of the "ring".

[GDB]

If that was the intention, then that should be stated. We already know at least Goku and Krillin can bend and control the Kamehameha (Goku vs Frieza, Krillin vs Saibamen). We also know that it can be used for propulsion (Goku vs King Piccolo). If they get knocked out of bounds, they can circumvent the "no flying" rule by quickly firing a kamehameha into the arena and then bending it to catapult themselves back into the ring.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by GDB

If that was the intention, then that should be stated. We already know at least Goku and Krillin can bend and control the Kamehameha (Goku vs Frieza, Krillin vs Saibamen). We also know that it can be used for propulsion (Goku vs King Piccolo). If they get knocked out of bounds, they can circumvent the "no flying" rule by quickly firing a kamehameha into the arena and then bending it to catapult themselves back into the ring.

As long as they're close enough to do that... but frankly I just wouldn't count much on them stating it or not. I have the impression if anything that it's the translation that's to blame for all this confusion. Let's take a moment to remember how long did it take for them to get the drift and start translating "ningen" with "mortals" rather than "humans" even though that was terribly confusing and never made sense.

[GDB]

True, it could very well be a contextual translation loss.

[Peanutbutter]

I re-watched my Chinese translation. That rule states that flying or floating in the air won't be possible in the World of Void (where the tournament is).

However, the animation does seem to suggest that flying or floating is possible within the "tournament top" but ineffective outside of it. So there.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by GDB

Doesn't... really answer my question. You basically just said he lost because he lost.



Jumping involves up and down. Krillin went up, and then didn't come down while he used his technique. Then continued to not come down as he powered up his technique. Only THEN did he come down.

that is why i told which that is a "shounen troper", the "jump air bone", where a character can jump and stay in air for a long time as if he is flying or levitating, it's like he can control how much the gravity can affect him while jump, many battle shounen love to do that and have they characters defying the gravity laws.

in the end what the anime showed is which you can also win by using "clever" mechanic and rules usage and not just "raw power", kirlin used his brains to wins against gohan which was just using raw power.

Originally Posted by Peanutbutter

I re-watched my Chinese translation. That rule states that flying or floating in the air won't be possible in the World of Void (where the tournament is).

However, the animation does seem to suggest that flying or floating is possible within the "tournament top" but ineffective outside of it. So there.

yeah that is what i remember, the thing about "flying is which will be very hard to do that in the void world rater than impossible, this means which the characters are about to fall and near the ring they can try to "fly" back to the arena if they have enough power to resist the "gravity on the void".

[wingdarkness]

I don't know if the Krillen // Gohan fight was the worst nerfing of all-time or the best-worst light-switching of all shonen time...

But then I saw Krills go halfsies on a SSJBlue Kamahamaha...

I have to reconsider now...

[Archon_Wing]

I think it's more outrageous that 18 just kicked that thing away. I mean, wut.

But as long as you assume Goku wasn't firing something like that to kill his friend and blow up the planet, we should be good.

[sayde]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

I think it's more outrageous that 18 just kicked that thing away. I mean, wut.

But as long as you assume Goku wasn't firing something like that to kill his friend and blow up the planet, we should be good.

It's easier to digest if you assume that 18 kicked Goku's hand instead of the blast itself (which appears to be the case).

On another note, maybe Goku was trying to secretly boost Krillin's confidence by letting him hold out longer than he should've.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Let's not forget they fought it out on a terrace, on a skyscraper, in the middle of a city. And Goku somehow thought firing a kamehameha as SSJ Blue was a good idea. We must assume they all were very much in control (namely: not actually fighting seriously) because otherwise a single stray shot would have killed thousands.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by sayde

On another note, maybe Goku was trying to secretly boost Krillin's confidence by letting him hold out longer than he should've.

He couldn't even let a 10 year old girl think her parents are strong if it meant he'd have to say he "lost".

[Archon_Wing]

So Next Time on Dragon Ball Super....

Buu is going to lose fat. I think that's probably the least believable thing yet!

[sayde]

Originally Posted by GDB

He couldn't even let a 10 year old girl think her parents are strong if it meant he'd have to say he "lost".

shhhhhhh!!!

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

So Next Time on Dragon Ball Super....

Buu is going to lose fat. I think that's probably the least believable thing yet!

I do wonder if he's going to lose it by working out or just by molding himself to a slimmer form.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

I don't know if the Krillen // Gohan fight was the worst nerfing of all-time or the best-worst light-switching of all shonen time...

But then I saw Krills go halfsies on a SSJBlue Kamahamaha...

I have to reconsider now...

That was like big brother or dad going easy, but not completely rolling over, versus their son/brother in sports or a video game. Goku even wonders aloud how Krillin will react to SSB. Goku could have won in base form as far as I'm concerned, it was more of a "let's push his limits a bit" situation.

[Blueknight78]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

That was like big brother or dad going easy, but not completely rolling over, versus their son/brother in sports or a video game. Goku even wonders aloud how Krillin will react to SSB. Goku could have won in base form as far as I'm concerned, it was more of a "let's push his limits a bit" situation.

that part i really doubt, since krillin was pushing goku and ended forcing him go ss, goku is not the "go easy" type of character not as you are saying, he was testing how strong kuririn get and he saw what he was expectating, which was which he was actually improved a lot and have enough experience to hold himself or be a big help in the royal tag tournament.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by Blueknight78

that part i really doubt, since krillin was pushing goku and ended forcing him go ss, goku is not the "go easy" type of character not as you are saying, he was testing how strong kuririn get and he saw what he was expectating, which was which he was actually improved a lot and have enough experience to hold himself or be a big help in the royal tag tournament.

Goku loves fighting, and Krillin is his best friend. Ideally Goku would like to face stronger opponents all the time, but that obviously isn't realistic. I think he gets the same type of enjoyment from pumping the brakes a bit and seeing what level of power output he can throw at Krillin before the strength difference is too great. It's like if I were to play 1vs1 basketball against my 10 year old son. I can still be a prideful fighter like Goku and win in the end, without ever really giving it my all. Letting him compete, but still not ceding victory.

I also just don't accept on any level that Krillin has begun to rival SSJ in terms of raw power just by lifting some weights. Rather, I think two things have happened over the course of DBS:
1. They got rid of the concept of "no selling" in battle. This is a slang term I've only seen used on some boards, so forgive me if I'm using it incorrectly, but it's a pretty good way to describe what I'm talking about. I've only seen two instances of one character just totally tanking another character in DBS, Tagoma vs Piccolo and SSJ3 Goku vs Beerus. Toei is super inconsistent and the first two sagas were all over the place, so I think we can disregard those as mistakes by Toei, or, alternatively, Toriyama gave up on the "no sell" concept after the RoF saga.

2. For this particular arc, they are placing even further emphasis on teamwork, skill, experience, and technique, at the expense of raw power. Some of this I think is just the logical outcome based on the tournament's rules, but it seems to me that they are pushing the envelope a bit with the concept. If this were the Cell saga, I don't think 18 could have kicked away Goku's blast like that. He'd have somehow teleported away from her, or brushed her aside with his ki aura, etc.

Basically, my point is, I think they've made DBS a bit more like American comic books, in particular I'm thinking of the DC Animated Universe, where a character like Superman could own 99% of the people he faces, but his power isn't portrayed as godlike, he can still get knocked out of the air by a well-timed missile, or whatever.

I think, as a child, I preferred the old DBZ way where one guy can just stand there as you attack him because he's that much more powerful. As an adult, however, this new way is much more fun...

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Goku loves fighting, and Krillin is his best friend. Ideally Goku would like to face stronger opponents all the time, but that obviously isn't realistic. I think he gets the same type of enjoyment from pumping the brakes a bit and seeing what level of power output he can throw at Krillin before the strength difference is too great. It's like if I were to play 1vs1 basketball against my 10 year old son. I can still be a prideful fighter like Goku and win in the end, without ever really giving it my all. Letting him compete, but still not ceding victory.

I also just don't accept on any level that Krillin has begun to rival SSJ in terms of raw power just by lifting some weights. Rather, I think two things have happened over the course of DBS:
1. They got rid of the concept of "no selling" in battle. This is a slang term I've only seen used on some boards, so forgive me if I'm using it incorrectly, but it's a pretty good way to describe what I'm talking about. I've only seen two instances of one character just totally tanking another character in DBS, Tagoma vs Piccolo and SSJ3 Goku vs Beerus. Toei is super inconsistent and the first two sagas were all over the place, so I think we can disregard those as mistakes by Toei, or, alternatively, Toriyama gave up on the "no sell" concept after the RoF saga.

2. For this particular arc, they are placing even further emphasis on teamwork, skill, experience, and technique, at the expense of raw power. Some of this I think is just the logical outcome based on the tournament's rules, but it seems to me that they are pushing the envelope a bit with the concept. If this were the Cell saga, I don't think 18 could have kicked away Goku's blast like that. He'd have somehow teleported away from her, or brushed her aside with his ki aura, etc.

Basically, my point is, I think they've made DBS a bit more like American comic books, in particular I'm thinking of the DC Animated Universe, where a character like Superman could own 99% of the people he faces, but his power isn't portrayed as godlike, he can still get knocked out of the air by a well-timed missile, or whatever.

I think, as a child, I preferred the old DBZ way where one guy can just stand there as you attack him because he's that much more powerful. As an adult, however, this new way is much more fun...

Well, not just American comics, even pretty much all battle manga post-DBZ. I think the 'no selling' aspect, while on one hand gave to DBZ the epic sense of immense power scalings (here's a guy who DOES NOT FLINCH when hit by that guy who DOES NOT FLINCH when hit by that guy who can destroy planets with a flick of a finger!), on the other it limited immensely the narrative possibilities - at any given time there were only two or three actually relevant fighters, and the rest were fodder. Shonen manga somewhat learned from that - no matter how high the power levels go in One Piece or Naruto, they never went quite THAT high and far apart from each other. HunterXHunter had the Chimera Ant King who came quite close to that but still he was accessible to weaker characters and he was truly a special case - he felt awfully scary exactly because it's not that often that they get such strong villains.