Chuunibyou Demo Koi ga Shitai! Ren - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Peanutbutter]

It's cliche, I can already smell the conclusion miles away but still I had a few laughs. That's all that matters.

[novalysis]

I must admit, Dekomori's actions at the end of the episode was outrageous, from my perspective. As a Chuunni with a very effective off switch, she should, of all people understand that an event of the formality as a Student Council election speech is precisely the time where she should engage that off switch.

On the other hand, come to think of it, perhaps Dekomori's actions here made perfect sense - were Nibutani to become President, she would likely disengage from the circle of Chuuni friends, and that includes Dekomori. To prevent that outcome, Dekomori decided to arrange it so that Nibutani would most certainly lose. Even if it's rather cruel to Nibutani.

On the more Meta Level, the scriptwriters were likely evoking the Status Quo is god trope. Nibutani becoming president would shatter that status quo, not just bend it like Satone has. However, the risk here is that the show would become stale - and those who do want to see progress and significant plot development in this episode would probably be more disappointed than ever, after this episode dangled the prospect of significant plot developments, and then took it away by Dekomori's Diabolus Ex Machina.

[Dark Faith]

Just as I was beginning to think Dekomori wasn't that bad and had a really cute side she just had to go and remind me of why I wasn't so fond of her in the first place.

I doubt Nibutani being humiliated like that will have any serious consequences in the story, but it's still a pretty shitty thing to do to someone.

[SuitUp]

I'm not going to analize the episode, since it's not great from an objective point of view, so all I got to say it's that while I'm certainly not a fan of yuri text/subtext, I'll gladly enjoy all the DekoxMorisummer KyoAni can bring, even though I would prefer Shinka to be with Yuuta...

[D-KLAC]

well give focus on nibutani & dekomori sure give get along well give like truth came in.

but dekomori being dekomori yea goodbye nibutani's student president chances everything back to normal to get dekomori drink that milk.

[mangamuscle]

IMO there was so much yuri potential wasted in this episode. Nibutani and Deko working diligently and becoming closer would have been a nice side story. But they went for the gag, which might be fun until you realize in this era at least one person recorded that with their cellphone and uploaded it to youtube or nico nico (with a fake account, there is always something hating the guts of the rich, popular or beautiful) and once it reaches the internet it will NEVER go away, it will haunt them in their future work or marriage interviews for life.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by novalysis

I must admit, Dekomori's actions at the end of the episode really angered me. As a Chuunni with a very effective off switch, she should, of all people understand that an event of the formality as a Student Council election speech is precisely the time where she should engage that off switch.

On the other hand, come to think of it, perhaps Dekomori's actions here made perfect sense - were Nibutani to become President, she would likely disengage from the circle of Chuuni friends, and that includes Dekomori. To prevent that outcome, Dekomori decided to arrange it so that Nibutani would most certainly lose. Even if it's rather cruel to Nibutani.

I agree. So either Deko's more psychologically disturbed than many of us thought she was, or she's being very cruel to Nibutani in order to not lose Nibutani. I'm not particularly fond of either interpretation.

I also have to say that the way this episode blended drama with comedy didn't work well for me.

The one scene of Deko totally breaking down in front of Mori Summer made me think of Mari Okada and/or Key melodrama at its absolute heights. To go from that to straightforward comedy... Nasty whiplash effect for me.

Different parts of this episode were interesting and entertaining. It was especially a nice change of pace to start with Shinka narrating and being the POV character for this episode.

However, the end of the episode undermined a lot of these positives for me.

[R.LocK]

It was fun. Thanksfully, I don't take anything involving chuu-2 seriously, so I didn't mind problems mentioned b others. A good episode overall.

[novalysis]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

IMO there was so much yuri potential wasted in this episode. Nibutani and Deko working diligently and becoming closer would have been a nice side story. But they went for the gag, which might be fun until you realize in this era at least one person recorded that with their cellphone and uploaded it to youtube or nico nico (with a fake account, there is always something hating the guts of the rich, popular or beautiful) and once it reaches the internet it will NEVER go away, it will haunt them in their future work or marriage interviews for life.

I don't think Dekomori has to actually worry about Jobs, given her family status. However, she should be worried about marriage Interviews.

I think, save for the more thoughtful teenagers, the most the students got out of this was that Nibutani was a closet weirdo hiding behind a mask of dignified normality. But, a more thoughtful and tolerant person who could accept that people were diverse at such an age would come to a different conclusion:

You cannot keep Dekomori in confidence. Dekomori's revelation of Nibutani's private life and interests was a very gross breach of good faith, and a disturbing betrayal. Dekomori is not a trustworthy friend. And I think it actually would hurt Dekomori's standing with the more discerning of her fellow students.

Dekomori is the sort of person who can never become your Nakama, because she just might stab you in the back. And I think it isn't so much the contents that Dekomori read that would damage her in the future, it is what betraying Nibutani's confidence speaks of her character.

Then again, I might be overanalyzing it, but that was precisely the reason why the last five minutes was not so much comedic, but very disturbing. Sadly, Deko's going to get away with no repercussions, while Nibutani's going to get her reputation smashed, in all probability in the anime.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I agree. So either Deko's more psychologically disturbed than many of us thought she was, or she's being very cruel to Nibutani in order to not lose Nibutani. I'm not particularly fond of either interpretation.

I don't think Kyo-ani thought the consequences of the ending on this episode on characterization carefully. They wanted to keep the general status quo, and cut off any possibility of drama, and President Nibutani stealing away Dekomori from Rikka unfortunately opens the gates to drama. But interesting and believable drama, in my opinion, had Kyo-ani not decided to have Dekomori stray into a bout of insanity that puts her characterization into question.

It's a gag episode, with a Reset button that relies on the unpleasant technique of Plot Induced Stupidity.

I'm also surprised Dekomori wasn't urged to run for the Council. Dekomori + Nibutani was a dream team, but alas the dream lasted only an episode.

That being said, I really think it would make for awesome comedy Student Council Anime revolving around the antics of President Nibutani, and her frenemy Kohai, Vice President, Dekomori.

Different parts of this episode were interesting and entertaining. It was especially a nice change of pace to start with Shinka narrating and being the POV character for this episode.

However, the end of the episode undermined a lot of these positives for me.

Fully agreed. Had the ending not occurred, we could actually have had some significant character growth, and new dynamic that could have offered possibilities for more fresh angles of Slice of Life interactions comedy, jokes, gags and maybe some small, low key character drama. I really fear that this episode is a sign that the anime will be going nowhere, and what made Chuuni more memorable than the many other gag series out there was the fact that it did go to a very interesting destination.

I enjoy the slow dance between Rikka and Yuuta actually, partly because it's so much within their character, and it's a believable obstacle that makes the journey of character development interesting - and the writing was at least very coherent and consistent. The ending of this episode unfortunately reeks of the same sins the more poorly written and inconsistent parts of Kyoukai no Kanata committed. Episode Four was a filler that was.... I'm not sure whether trolling is the most appropriate word to use here - I think a missed opportunity for preventing Chuunibyou from becoming too stale may be a better way to describe it. At the very least, it was guilty of a very egregious bait and switch.

[Klashikari]

I think you are thinking wayyy too deeply about this.

It isn't like Sanae deliberately backstabbed Shinka as in sabotaging her chances. Rather, this episode really put emphasis on how Sanae is quite "dedicated" to "Mori Summer" teaching, hence why she is relentless against Shinka who "poses" as her.
I mean, she is so enthralled by that to the point she had to share it to the students, which pretty much means that her "obsession" over that just overwhelm her attempt to keep a normal facade.

If she really planned to screw Shinka from the beginning, she wouldn't be that shocked when Shinka lost it during the presentation.

[Marcus H.]

The thing with Deko trying to mess with Shinka is just Deko being against fake-Mori Summer. That's it and nothing else. Nothing about bullying and sabotage, just Deko being Deko.

On the other hand, it's a bit heartbreaking to see Rikka quivering over the thought of losing Deko to Shinka. It's not just about servants and masters, it involves years of legitimate friendship. Fortunately, Deko and Shinka's relationship seems different than that of Deko and Rikka—while Deko was overwhelmed by the presence of the one who introduced her to the world of chuunibyou, most of her time as a true chuunibyou was spent with Rikka's presence.

And of course, Deko ends up pushing too hard for Mori Summer's favor.

I don't think that's a bad thing. At least Shinka doesn't have to leave the club and Deko returns to Rikka's side once more.

[blakstealth]

Originally Posted by mangamuscle

But they went for the gag, which might be fun until you realize in this era at least one person recorded that with their cellphone and uploaded it to youtube or nico nico (with a fake account, there is always something hating the guts of the rich, popular or beautiful) and once it reaches the internet it will NEVER go away, it will haunt them in their future work or marriage interviews for life.

Yeah, doubt it.

[Anime Online]

Poor Nibutani. Well, she learned an important life lesson: be careful of who you trust. The anime kept it light-hearted: Nibutani ended up chasing Dekomori around (which is basically back to normal). However, those who had been betrayed in front of everyone by people they thought they can trust would remember how it must have felt. It's not something you can ever forget.

Regardless, the relationship reset was inevitable anyway. There's no way the anime would keep the change. There's nobody left to fill in for the fighting/humor between Nibutani and Dekomori. Tooka is too powerful for anyone to mess around with (and she has flown to Italy). Kumin only antagonize Nibutani when she's sleep-talking.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Anime Online

Regardless, the relationship reset was inevitable anyway.

Probably. And I get why they did it. Deko vs. Shinka antics is some of the best comedy of the show.

Still, I think it would have been better if they had stuck with this change for a couple episodes, and had it somewhat revert back to normal in a couple episodes. Maybe have Shinka actually win the Student Council Presidency, and then drift further and further away from Deko because of it. This could then cause a frustrated/lonely/sad Deko to change back to her old anti-fake!Mori Summer self to try to get Shinka re-engaged with her.

I think it could have made a nice subplot.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

It isn't like Sanae deliberately backstabbed Shinka as in sabotaging her chances. Rather, this episode really put emphasis on how Sanae is quite "dedicated" to "Mori Summer" teaching, hence why she is relentless against Shinka who "poses" as her.

Well, that's the psychologically disturbed possibility I mentioned before.

Maybe you're right there. I'm starting to think that most of these kids really are a bit crazy, and are not just playing around.

Originally Posted by novalysis

I think, save for the more thoughtful teenagers, the most the students got out of this was that Nibutani was a closet weirdo hiding behind a mask of dignified normality. But, a more thoughtful and tolerant person who could accept that people were diverse at such an age would come to a different conclusion:

You cannot keep Dekomori in confidence. Dekomori's revelation of Nibutani's private life and interests was a very gross breach of good faith, and a disturbing betrayal. Dekomori is not a trustworthy friend. And I think it actually would hurt Dekomori's standing with the more discerning of her fellow students.

These two conclusions aren't mutually exclusive. I'm inclined to think that many students, perhaps even most students, would arrive at both of them.

I mean, you can think that Nibutani is a closet weirdo but that Dekomori also brutally betrayed her by "outing" Nibutani like this. You can consider a person a weirdo but still feel sorry for her getting treated like this.

Sadly, Deko's going to get away with no repercussions, while Nibutani's going to get her reputation smashed, in all probability in the anime.

I can't be 100% confident in this after the 2nd half of Chuuni Season 1, but I do doubt that we're going to see these events picked up on much. We might see the odd student tease Nibutani a bit (or talk about her "weirdness" behind her back), but aside from that, probably nothing, for her or Deko.

They wanted to keep the general status quo, and cut off any possibility of drama, and President Nibutani stealing away Dekomori from Rikka unfortunately opens the gates to drama. But interesting and believable drama, in my opinion, had Kyo-ani not decided to have Dekomori stray into a bout of insanity that puts her characterization into question.

Agreed. Which is why I think it would have been nice to let this play out for a couple episodes.

That being said, I really think it would make for awesome comedy Student Council Anime revolving around the antics of President Nibutani, and her frenemy Kohai, Vice President, Dekomori.

This makes me think a lot of Love Lab. Speaking of which, if you haven't seen it, you probably want to check it out.

[Dr. Casey]

I also find the return to the status quo a bit disappointing, and the ending made me cringe. Good episode, though.

You know, I genuinely do find Mori Summer's mysticism and talk about love, fairies, and being hundreds of years of years old quite lovely. It must be the 12 year old in me that was so completely enraptured with JRPGs speaking. Shinka might want to escape from that and be more of a typical valley girl, but the hopeless romanticism and sentimentality of Mori Summer was nice.

[teja208]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I think you are thinking wayyy too deeply about this.

It isn't like Sanae deliberately backstabbed Shinka as in sabotaging her chances. Rather, this episode really put emphasis on how Sanae is quite "dedicated" to "Mori Summer" teaching, hence why she is relentless against Shinka who "poses" as her.
I mean, she is so enthralled by that to the point she had to share it to the students, which pretty much means that her "obsession" over that just overwhelm her attempt to keep a normal facade.

If she really planned to screw Shinka from the beginning, she wouldn't be that shocked when Shinka lost it during the presentation.

It's the matter of presenting alternative interpretation. I think novalysis also consider what you stated here as one way of interpreting Dekomori's action, but chooses rather to go with the interpretation that put the blame directly on Dekomori instead of chuunibyou patient as a whole which I can see his point although I'm not totally agree with him.

Novalysis firmly believes that Dekomori is superior to other chu2byo patients due to her knack for behaving properly in public. That is to say despite of chu2byo, she was able to fit in better with ordinary people than say Rikka or Sophia due to possessing a certain built-in off switch mode which gives room normal social interaction like how she always helping her classmates study. This become debatable after what she did this episode.

Based on your interpretation, Deko's action this episode sort of go against novalysis's claim that she has an off switch, and also suggests a negative implication that chuunibyou patients is a threat to the society becuse they can ruin someone elses' life and dream with their lack of common sense. So he choose to interpret Deko's action as intentional act of betrayal rather than due to her inability to keep her chu2byo (her devotion to Mori Summer's teachings is part of that) under control since it go against his possitive image of her.

I would like to present a third interpretation. You could say that Deko was able to keep her chu2byo in check until the moment Shinka think it's alright to show off "The Return of Mori Summer" which spirals Deko's chu2byo out of control. The scene is of course still debatable, but Deko's crying there felt genuine to me. Yeah Deko still is the most to blame, but Shinka is 20% at fault for giving the wrong push. I think we can agree that most chu2byo patients possess a child like mentality, and they are quite sensitive and easily influenced to put it nicely. I'm planning to post a more in depth analysis of chu2byo mentality in latter but I would like to wait until they flash out Sophia characterization more she's is an interesting case if you ask me. For now, let's leave it at that.

[Klashikari]

...I never implied that Sanae has "no off switch". S1 episode 13 presented an evidence that she can think about it and let it go until it just felt "wrong" for her.

The problem is that her fascination for "Mori Summer" in general is a very strong obsession. In fact, S1 implied big time that Mori Summer blog was the very origin of "Dekomori" chuuni persona. So obviously, the moment Sanae realizes her chuuni idol figure is actually in front of her, it basically went overdrive.
That's the very reason I mentioned she is hard ball against "Shinka" because the latter represents the complete opposite of MS, and therefore Sanae can't compute the fact they are the one and same person until Satone gave evidence of that. And that's also why she felt she needed to "spread" MS preaching now the real thing is present and in flesh.

It is just simple as that, and Sanae's reactions are obvious evidences of that. She never was the kind of character who has a grim and hidden agenda: her intentions are always obvious and she never tricked Shinka before, she always went "dekomori" on her all the way.
Otherwise, that last scene with Sanae and Rikka doesn't make any sense.

And frankly, I think people are taking this episode way too seriously for their own good.
It isn't like I'm a fan of Sanae, but I have hard time to believe Shinka's "big dream" is indeed being part of the student council. The main reason is that Shinka's personality is definitely not what she pretend to be during this episode: she is of course caring and reliable, but she has to put a facade.
Also, if it was her aim, why didn't she try that during her first year then?
Really, for someone who claims to always dream to be the student council president, her course of actions is really roundabout (joining the cheerleading club, then the drama club, while still hanging around Rikka's club, etc).

As far as it goes, her attempt to be part of the SC is yet another method to polish her image and put more distance from her chuuni past. Being the student council president is not only a "prestige" token, but also proves you have the trust of the students. Basically the perfect opposite image of a chuuni student.
No matter how much I like Shinka, her reason for being the SCP isn't exactly innocent, but not completely petty either. Shinka is trying to change in a very active, if not pushy, fashion by working on her public image (acting like a prude normal girl back in episode 1 is a testimony of it).

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

...I never implied that Sanae has "no off switch".

Demomori having an off switch indicates two things:

1. She realizes that this is fantasy that she's engaging in.

2. She realizes that there are times and places where engaging in fantasy is inappropriate, and can get you (and/or others) into trouble.


Now, by extension, she must realize that "Mori Summer" is similarly fantasy. It may be really cool fantasy to Dekomori, so I'm fine with her deeply admiring Mori Summer/Shinka Nibutani for it.

To be fair, I suppose its possible that Dekomori admires Mori Summer so much that she seriously thought this would actually help Shinka's campaign.

That's probably the most forgiving interpretation I could settle on for Deko's actions in this episode. Going by this interpretation, perhaps Deko wishes that Shinka would more publicly embrace being Mori Summer since she thinks it would be cool and actually helpful to Shinka and her school.

It isn't like I'm a fan of Sanae, but I have hard time to believe Shinka's "big dream" is indeed being part of the student council.

What do you think her "big dream" is then? This episode seemed to imply to me that being Student Council President was her "big dream" - Or, at least, that it's intricately tied into her "big dream".

Also, if it was her aim, why didn't she try that during her first year then?

I'm honestly surprised by this question. Just look at anime's continual emphasis on "senpais" and "upperclassman" and making a big deal out of age/grade differences.

So it only makes sense to me to think that Shinka would want to wait until she has some "senpai" cred before going for Student Council President.

Really, for someone who claims to always dream to be the student council president, her course of actions is really roundabout (joining the cheerleading club, then the drama club, while still hanging around Rikka's club, etc).

This is actually a great way to build up for an eventual run at being Student Council President. Meet as many students as possible, become a part of different clubs, try to become well-liked and accepted and respected.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

To be fair, I suppose its possible that Dekomori admires Mori Summer so much that she seriously thought this would actually help Shinka's campaign.

That's probably the most forgiving interpretation I could settle on for Deko's actions in this episode. Going by this interpretation, perhaps Deko wishes that Shinka would more publicly embrace being Mori Summer since she thinks it would be cool and actually helpful to Shinka and her school.

That's also why Sanae isn't able to completely follow Shinka's "request" for the identity cover up.
She didn't help the individual Shinka, but her chuuni idolized figure Mori Summer.

What do you think her "big dream" is then? This episode seemed to imply to me that being Student Council President was her "big dream" - Or, at least, that it's intricately tied into her "big dream".

The way Shinka described herself is quite exaggerated. Shinka is by no mean a saint or a bad girl: she is actually your usual teenager girl. But Season 1 pretty much spells out that she is by no mean a model student: if things go unpleasant, she will just try something else.

Shinka's course of action is inconsistent if you take in consideration she wants to be the student council president: pretty much her actions thus far are not converging to that goal, and suffice to say, flipping her options recently (typical ojou type => drama club => student council president) are not exactly part of a single objective, save denying the existence of her chuunibyou.

I'm honestly surprised by this question. Just look at anime's continual emphasis on "senpais" and "upperclassman" and making a big deal out of age/grade differences.

First year high school student being part of the student council is not unheard of. Also, even if you aren't the president, being part of the secretary of the council would boost her reputation and lead to more opportunities. In fact, even treasurers are often portrayed as freshmen.

What I should have meant however is how Shinka has shown absolutely no interest in the student council prior this episode. It didn't happen when she was trying to act as a completely "pure" girl with her black hair and long skirt. She didn't nudge of thought of it during her first year (no mention of plans, nor trying to help the student council etc).

In general sense, Shinka's interest for the student council was abrupt, and played for laughs exactly because it is one among many attempts to polish her public image.
Her inner narration regarding herself is quite blatant: it sounds like a PR, despite she isn't exactly like that.
Quite the opposite in S2 ep1, where she says "last year was a disaster, but this time, I stand at the top of the school!"... not exactly a declaration from someone who genuinely want to be the student council president for the sake of the students. Hell, she even told Yuuta she questions why she is in a high school and states her ambition is not to be stuck in a little club (so that mention and her ambition to be the top of the school hardly match a "dream to be the student council president", otherwise she wouldn't be so vague about it).

This is actually a great way to build up for an eventual run at being Student Council President. Meet as many students as possible, become a part of different clubs, try to become well-liked and accepted and respected.

The thing is that she didn't take such opportunity to attract people attention about her potential for the student council.
Quite the contrary, her club activities are rather scarce and self centred. Instead of visiting each club to demonstrate her good points, she went there and left when she felt bored/something is wrong.

Heck, Yuuta was surprised twice she left the cheerleading club first, then the drama club

[teja208]

@Klashikari I hear you, I guess our views aren't that different after all.

However, I still see Shinka as the one responsible breaking Deko's off switch by pretending to be Mori Summer in front of her even though she already graduate from it. Actually, another way of looking at it is Shinka made a mistake with her decision to capitalize Deko's devotion to Mori Summer in order to manupulate Deko into assisting her with the SC campaign. Yuuta and Rikka's part of the fault as well for coming up with the idea and encouraging Shinka to go for it. This is basically like deceiving someone for your own benefit and part of the reason why I think Shinka wasn't fit to become the SCP anyway.

So it's basically a bad decisions from all characters involve and lack of consideration and inability to anticipate of how will Deko behave under the circumstance.