One Piece - Chapter 668 [manga]

[Darmill]

Originally Posted by holypanl

@Darmill: Don't forget that Magellan was able to release fumes from his mouth, and he was able to blur Luffy's vision using a variant form of tear gas, either :|

Ah ur right! Now I recall the scene where Hancock got warned not to breath, so Magellan does have the potential to upgrade his most horrendous attack.

[randomlex]

Originally Posted by Darmill

Zoro (to Shanks): I have no interest in challenging an one-armed man like you...

Hehe, after training with Mihawk, he might actually say that. No worries, Shanks can retort with: "You're one to talk, one eyed rookie"

[Kona]

Originally Posted by holypanl

@Darmill: Don't forget that Magellan was able to release fumes from his mouth, and he was able to blur Luffy's vision using a variant form of tear gas, either :|


http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.c...ust-stupid.jpg

> Writer introduces a character.
> Writer acclaims character repeatedly as strongest swordsman in story.
> Writer demonstrates character's prowess by paralleling character with a Yonkou.
> Writer sets up one of the strongest main protagonists' primary goal to be defeating this character.
> Writer knows more about the story than the reader.

Reader: "Samurai are stronger than Mihawk!!!1234"

The marines don't go near and if they did the samurai would have to be top tiers. Fighting off the strongest marines (Admirals) and anything less wouldn't make sense. Ryuuma stated his limitations. Mihawk is strong that's why the Government sent him there right?

[Frenchie]

Originally Posted by holypanl

@Darmill: Don't forget that Magellan was able to release fumes from his mouth, and he was able to blur Luffy's vision using a variant form of tear gas, either :|


http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.c...ust-stupid.jpg

> Writer introduces a character.
> Writer acclaims character repeatedly as strongest swordsman in story.
> Writer demonstrates character's prowess by paralleling character with a Yonkou.
> Writer sets up one of the strongest main protagonists' primary goal to be defeating this character.
> Writer knows more about the story than the reader.

Reader: "Samurai are stronger than Mihawk!!!1234"

Oda has final say on what is or isn't possible in this manga. Why is it so unbelievable that the land of Wano may have one champion that might fight on equal footing with the the very best swordsmen OP has to offer?

I'm sure you would have also laughed if anyone had offered that Coby would learn haki back in the day. It doesn't hurt to open your mind to different perspectives.

[Darmill]

Originally Posted by randomlex

Hehe, after training with Mihawk, he might actually say that. No worries, Shanks can retort with: "You're one to talk, one eyed rookie"

LOL good one! I'm wondering why Chopper never checked or asked what happened to Zoro's left eye (maybe he did off-screen). I like the idea that the left slot might have been incorporated with a brand new built-in GPS

[paradox13]

Oda has final say on what is or isn't possible in this manga.

Yes.

And hes stated in not uncertain terms that Mihawk is currently the strongest swordsman in the world.

You know what this reminds me of? The debate about whether or not Whitebeard was actually the strongest man in the world..

[Kona]

Originally Posted by paradox13

Yes.

And hes stated in not uncertain terms that Mihawk is currently the strongest swordsman in the world.

You know what this reminds me of? The debate about whether or not Whitebeard was actually the strongest man in the world..

So you read Wano Arc and know how strong the samurai are and their names. Your arguement doesn't really hold that much weight.

[holypanl]

@Frenchie:

Originally Posted by holypanl

> Writer introduces a character.

Originally Posted by Frenchie

Oda has final say on what is or isn't possible in this manga.

(1) In 500 words or less, explain whom you believe the "Writer" refers to in the first quotation above. [5 marks]

(2) Using clear reasoning, explain why the second quotation displays a clear indication of a deficiency in cognitive reasoning. [10 marks]

I'm sure you would have also laughed if anyone had offered that Coby would learn haki back in the day. It doesn't hurt to open your mind to different perspectives.

1. It was painfully obvious that Oda had introduced Coby in that light for added dramatic effect when in the future he would emerge as a key, powerful antagonist to Luffy. A mental cretin could have foreseen this.

2. There is a very pervasive effort seen almost universally today, piloted on the back of a series of (generally misused) buzzwords to get intelligent or above-average people to stop being exceptional and just shut up, and be "tolerant" and "accepting", and to instead place everyone on equal footing so as to let mediocre people feel less inadequate. I do not need to "open my mind" to something I have judged to be ludicrous.

Additionally, I'm withdrawing myself from this sub-debate, citing an obvious mud-slinging trap that will lead nowhere.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Frenchie

Oda has final say on what is or isn't possible in this manga. Why is it so unbelievable that the land of Wano may have one champion that might fight on equal footing with the the very best swordsmen OP has to offer?

I'm sure you would have also laughed if anyone had offered that Coby would learn haki back in the day. It doesn't hurt to open your mind to different perspectives.

It doesn't matter what could happen. Mihawk is the undisputed best swordsmen in the world. There is no argument or debate.

Originally Posted by Kona

So you read Wano Arc and know how strong the samurai are and their names. Your arguement doesn't really hold that much weight.

There is no Wano Arc, so any argument that uses the potential arc as evidence is completely invalid.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Kona

I wouldn't say he's number 1.

Yes he is. There is no room for discussion on this matter.

However, it is entirely possible that there is a swordmaster in Wano that can hold his own against Mihawk, just like Vista in WB Pirates.

[Kona]

Originally Posted by james0246

It doesn't matter what could happen. Mihawk is the undisputed best swordsmen in the world. There is no argument or debate.



There is no Wano Arc, so any argument that uses the potential arc as evidence is completely invalid.

You think thy because Wano arc hasn't be shown yet. What tier do you put the 4 samurai before the straw hats went to punk hazard? Like I said if the strongest left the island which they would never do Mihawk wouldn't have his title. It's silly to think those 4 samurai aren't on Mihawks level.

[paradox13]

What tier do you put the 4 samurai before the straw hats went to punk hazard?

What are you talking about?

[marvelB]

lol, what's with this sudden argument comparing Mihawk to the Wano samurai? I mean, we haven't even seen many of those guys yet (I mean, the only one we've seen aside from Kinemon was a freaking zombie who emulated Brooke's fighting style). Aohige pretty much said what needed to be said on the matter, anyway. The last thing I'll add on this matter is that the people who question Mihawk's position are unfamiliar with a little something called "Occam's Razor"....

[Kona]

Originally Posted by paradox13

What are you talking about?

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Kona

You think thy because Wano arc hasn't be shown yet. What tier do you put the 4 samurai before the straw hats went to punk hazard? Like I said if the strongest left the island which they would never do Mihawk wouldn't have his title. It's silly to think those 4 samurai aren't on Mihawks level.

1. You have no way of knowing this. We have never seen the samurai, so claiming their equivalence or superiority makes little to no sense.

To put it another way, Hyouzou was the greatest swordsman on Fishman Island, he had heen hyped for 100s of chapters, and even Luffy claimed he was powerful, yet he was defeated in less than a chapter. Being a big fish in a little pond means nothing.

So, stop making assertions without any real facts.

2. You cannot deny Mihawk's title. It is a literal title Mihawk has earned through his years of being a swordsmen (and the title was even known in East Blue, the most backwater area of the world). To think he would accquire such a title without facing a known island of swordsmen is perposterous (especially considering how competitive Mihawk is). (Hell, for all we know, Mihawk is a Wano samurai.)

We've been given no indication that Mihawk isn't the greatest. In fact we've been given every indication that he is the greatest.

Additionally, why anyone would want to cheapen Zoro's dreams makes no sense to me.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by james0246

Additionally, why anyone would want to cheapen Zoro's dreams makes no sense to me.

Zoro wants to become the strongest swordsman in the world, which doesn't necessarily have to involve defeating Mihawk. Zoro's dream is all dependent on who has the title. By the very end of the series, Mihawk may be dethroned by someone (who I suspect will be Shiliew).

The relationship between Mihawk and Zoro has changed considerably since they first met. At first, Zoro's goal was to simply dethrone Mihawk of the WSS title. After being separated from his comrades, Zoro swallowed his pride and desperately asked Mihawk to train him. They now share a student-mentor bond. With that being said, Zoro defeating Mihawk would feel somewhat cheapened since he didn't reach the top all by his own skills. Essentially, he's taken a short cut, and by the ultimate target he intends to dethrone. I feel that Zoro now needs something more fulfilling than simply defeating Mihawk. And if my suspicions are true, Shiliew outright defeating Mihawk would set a new bar/test for Zoro to overcome.

[aohige]

I don't think learning from the strongest in order to become stronger than him is at all cheapning.

But it may be the difference of way East and West precieve.
師を超える (going beyond the master) is a common concept not only in Japanese culture, but I'm pretty sure in Chinese as well.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by aohige

I don't think learning from the strongest in order to become stronger than him is at all cheapning.

But it may be the difference of way East and West precieve.
師を越える (going beyong the master) is a common concept not only in Japanese culture, but I'm pretty sure in Chinese as well.

I still don't like how Oda opted to have Zoro train under Mihawk. If it were some other swordsman that trained Zoro I wouldn't have a problem at all.

And before anyone brings it up, Zoro training under Mihawk is different than Luffy being under Rayleigh's tutelage. The difference is that Rayleigh is now retired and has stepped down for the new generation. He's not an obstacle Luffy must overcome.

[aohige]

Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma

I still don't like how Oda opted to have Zoro train under Mihawk. If it were some other swordsman that trained Zoro I wouldn't have a problem at all.

And before anyone brings it up, Zoro training under Mihawk is different than Luffy being under Rayleigh's tutelage. The difference is that Rayleigh is now retired and has stepped down for the new generation. He's not an obstacle Luffy must overcome.

I don't think I need to repeat what I said, but...
A pupil learning from a master to BEST that master, is NOT considered dishonorable, cheap, or any of that in Eastern culture.
It's a pretty common theme actually.

If you don't like it, well, the issue is not with OP, it's just your preference.

[Blackbeard D. Kuma]

Originally Posted by aohige

I don't think I need to repeat what I said, but...
A pupil learning from a master to BEST that master, is NOT considered dishonorable, cheap, or any of that in Eastern culture.

If you don't like it, well, the issue is not with OP, it's your preference.

Actually, it's to each their own, my friend. I know of people emanating from Eastern culture that share my view on this. I perfectly understood what you said, and just stated my opinion on why I disagree with the matter. If you don't like it, well, the issue is with you.